parboo12 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I have had this bug for quite a while and mentioned it before, along with others. I have BIAS FX Std, BIAS Amp LE, and BIAS Amp2 LE. It's pretty easy to reproduce. Just create a simple track template. From the New Project start with an empty project and add an audio track. Set your instrument input, and save it as a track template. Start a new project, using your new template. Add any BIAS to the effects of your track and record a few bars. The wave graphics show and everything seems to be recording normal. Hit stop and the recording has disappeared. Record it again and it's probably all right. It seems to be only the first time. It doesn't seem to do this if you just start off with an empty project and add the audio track and BIAS, and if you save BIAS in your template you are probably OK too. So it's something different about the template track. I am using a Focusrite Scarlet 2nd gen 18i8 with an i7-8700 16g, and also have used an A10 AMD 8g with the same results. Focusrite driver, Cakewalk, Windows 10 and BIAS all up to date. I think this problem has been around for a while, too. Sonar X3 acts the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Yeah I use BIAS FX saved as a track template in CbB and I've had this problem too where when recording an audio track the first one will often just vanish after you hit stop - even though during the actual recording the waveform was being drawn. And yeah, recording a second time *may* be ok. There was a point when at first the track vanishing act was intermittent, but then it would happen every single time the first time recording and iirc I think it was messing with the buffer that caused it to go back to intermittent. I've posted about this before, and felt like I had tracked it down to BIAS FX as the culprit when saved in a track template, and I'm pretty sure at least one other person posted about this same issue too way back. And it *did* seem to have specifically to do with using saved templates that had BIAS FX loaded in them as opposed to manually loading BIAS FX each time though I haven't verified that 100%. I don't believe it's ever been resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Actually, I kind of remember your screen name iirc you were you probably the one I recall posting about this on the old cakewalk forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parboo12 Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 No one else can reproduce this? I can do it all the time on 2 different computers, 2 different interfaces. You have to follow the above instruction EXACTLY, (that involves NOT having BIAS in your template). Has anyone tried the above instructions and had no problem? And its not a very good error to have, you kind of want to rely on having your track being recorded by your DAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Sasor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, parboo12 said: No one else can reproduce this? I can do it all the time on 2 different computers, 2 different interfaces. You have to follow the above instruction EXACTLY, (that involves NOT having BIAS in your template). Has anyone tried the above instructions and had no problem? And its not a very good error to have, you kind of want to rely on having your track being recorded by your DAW. We now have an in-house repro for this issue. Adding the plugin after inserting the track template is the specific nature of the bug. It's now logged on our end. I can't guarantee that a fix will make the pending 2019.07 release, but we'll definitely look into it soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) I've had this problem for over a 1.5 years and whether BIAS is saved in the track template or if it's added to the track template after the fact, I don't believe it matters and in any case I have since abandoned BIAS because of it. Otherwise *every single time* you go to lay down a track you have to remember that the first one will probably vanish and if you forget that rediculous step and you happen to lay down an amazing performance only to watch it vanish.. my confidence in BIAS has done the same. Edited July 22, 2019 by Christian Jones Ah never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Sasor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Christian Jones said: I've had this problem for over a 1.5 years and whether BIAS is saved in the track template or if it's added to the track template after the fact, I don't believe it matters and in any case I have since abandoned BIAS because of it. Otherwise *every single time* you go to lay down a track you have to remember that the first one will probably vanish and if you forget that rediculous step and you happen to lay down an amazing performance only to watch it vanish.. my confidence in BIAS has done the same. I've been trying to get a concrete recipe for this for some time. It works just fine for me when I have it saved as part of the template, but if I add the template, then add Bias and record, I can get a consistent repro. Once we can replicate a problem in house, then it's a much simpler matter to identify where the problem is and come up with a fix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Jon Sasor said: I've been trying to get a concrete recipe for this for some time. It works just fine for me when I have it saved as part of the template, but if I add the template, then add Bias and record, I can get a consistent repro. Once we can replicate a problem in house, then it's a much simpler matter to identify where the problem is and come up with a fix. Well, since you're able to consistently reproduce it in the way that you've described, perhaps issuing a fix for that may also fix the way that I'm able to additionally reproduce it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 We were able to troubleshoot this and found that it is a bug in BIAS's use of the Chromium embedded framework. The plugin is launching several CEF (chrome embedded framework) web view processes when you create the plugin. These processes can be seen in task manager as CefSubprocess.exe instances. Apparently these CEF processes are hijacking wave files created when recording and changing the sharing permissions of them such that CbB cannot access our own recorded files! This is why recording fails. In fact even Windows explorer cannot access the files and you get this error if you try and copy and paste the recorded file to a different folder. A fix for this will have to come from BIAS. We will forward this information to them as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parboo12 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Thanks, Noel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said: We were able to troubleshoot this and found that it is a bug in BIAS's use of the Chromium embedded framework. The plugin is launching several CEF (chrome embedded framework) web view processes when you create the plugin. These processes can be seen in task manager as CefSubprocess.exe instances. Apparently these CEF processes are hijacking wave files created when recording and changing the sharing permissions of them such that CbB cannot access our own recorded files! This is why recording fails. In fact even Windows explorer cannot access the files and you get this error if you try and copy and paste the recorded file to a different folder. A fix for this will have to come from BIAS. We will forward this information to them as well. It hijacks it even from Windows? Man that's scandalous, and anyway thanks Noel and Jon for sorting that out as I suspected the fix would have to come from Positive Grid and for some reason I initially erroneously thought Jon Sasor worked for Positive Grid lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parboo12 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Hopefully you'll be rockin' out again soon, Christian! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 UPDATE for anyone having the vanishing wave file issue w/ BIAS. I've been speaking w/ a Positive Grid rep since yesterday and I pointed him to this thread. He said he hasn't heard of this but that he forwarded it to their R&D group yesterday and that if they can verify that BIAS FX is the cause then they will fix it. No timeline. He told me they are unable to reproduce this issue w/ BIAS FX 2 however. That doesn't help those who are still on BIAS FX/AMP 1 and don't plan on upgrading soon or at all, but I'm told the issue for BIAS 1 is being looked into now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 @Christian Jones I think there may be a disconnect. Can you please notify the rep you are speaking to that I sent them very detailed technical information about this problem with BIAS FX 2. Yes it also happens in the new version. The information was sent on July 24 to Joe Kuo from support there and he acknowledged receipt and said it would be forwarded to their engineers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said: @Christian Jones I think there may be a disconnect. Can you please notify the rep you are speaking to that I sent them very detailed technical information about this problem with BIAS FX 2. Yes it also happens in the new version. The information was sent on July 24 to Joe Kuo from support there and he acknowledged receipt and said it would be forwarded to their engineers. Noel, thanks again for doing that and in that case it sounds like a disconnect on their end as it seems like a month later it would be well-known over there, then again I don't know how they operate or how much of a priority this would be to them. It's possible they've been working on it this whole time and maybe it's just not common knowledge among them, who knows. I'll quote your post to Mike (no last name and no direct email, just @support) and point him back to this thread so he can see that the problem exists in BIAS FX 2 after all, as he did say they weren't able to recreate the problem in the new 2 suite. Dang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Christian Jones said: Noel, thanks again for doing that and in that case it sounds like a disconnect on their end as it seems like a month later it would be well-known over there, then again I don't know how they operate or how much of a priority this would be to them. It's possible they've been working on it this whole time and maybe it's just not common knowledge among them, who knows. I'll quote your post to Mike (no last name and no direct email, just @support) and point him back to this thread so he can see that the problem exists in BIAS FX 2 after all, as he did say they weren't able to recreate the problem in the new 2 suite. Dang. I was able to reproduce it in the NFR they sent us so it happens in the latest plugin I had in July. I'm not sure if its fixed since then. Both @Jonathan Sasor and I were able to reproduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Here's Mike's reply. ___________ "Hi Christian, Thanks for your reply, I've confirmed with Joe that he did receive the report in July, and our RD team is aware of this issue, We'll look into this, Thank you for your help Kind Regards, Mike Positive Grid Support" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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