Trying to get my ACT together

[Starship Krupa]

I've been trying off and on for years to figure out how to use my Korg nanoKONTROL2 to control plug-in parameters.

Of course, as is often the case with Cakewalk, there seem to be a handful of different ways to go about it.

This time around I decided to try ACT, based on a YouTube video by @Simeon Amburgey where he sets his keyboard controller mod wheel to control T-Racks Leslie. It takes him seconds, and it works great, of course. Super spiffy how the ACT window gets automatically populated with the automatable parameters.

However, when I try following along, I can only get as far as seeing that the fields are populated with my plug-in parameters. The issue is that my controller doesn't actually control them. I twiddle knobs and sliders to no effect. And yes, I do have the plug-in in focus.

I'm sure I'm just missing a step, any idea what that step might be?

Here are a couple of screenshots showing my setup. I first tried it with MChorusMB, then T-Racks 670, then did it with MEQualizer, which can be downloaded for free:

[msmcleod]

@Starship Krupa - have you put the nanoKONTROL 2 into CC mode? 

CC mode (for ACT):  While pressing and holding down the SET MARKER and CYCLE buttons, connect the USB cable from your computer to the nanoKONTROL2 and engage CC mode.  The Korg editor can then be used to change which CC's each control sends out.

Mackie mode for SONAR/Cakewalk:  While pressing and holding down the SET MARKER and REC buttons, connect the USB cable from your computer to the nanoKONTROL2.

Mackie mode for Cubase: While pressing and holding down the SET MARKER and REW buttons, connect the USB cable from your computer to the nanoKONTROL2.

[Starship Krupa]

38 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

have you put the nanoKONTROL 2 into CC mode?

Yes.

I figured out what the missing step (or at least "a" missing step) was: I thought that when I pulled up the ACT and all of the cells were already populated, with, for instance, S1 mapped to Dry/Wet, that those were default assignments and they would work without further ado. R1-R8 being the 8 rotary pots and S1-8 being the 8 sliders. And then there were the two "B" rows, which I thought were for the buttons.

As It turns out, the parameters seem to be assigned to the cells in whatever order the plug-in reports them. And apparently I need to give each one the ol' MIDI learnaroonie. Then it works (yay!). I don't know why they all look mapped like that and then I still have to do the learny-dance, but it's okay, I really just want it to work.

Anyhoo, one hurdle leads to the next, eh? So my next question is about the "banks."

So as far as I can make out so far, what I must do for each plug-in I want to set up is:

1. Open its UI
2. Click on the Properties button in the lower left corner of the ACT Module.
3. Check "enable" in the lower left corner of the resulting dialog, which will populate the cells with the names of various parameters that can be assigned.
4. Hunt down each parameter I want to control, then click on its cell and twiddle the knob or press the button I want to use to control it.

There doesn't seem to be a way to tell Cakewalk "okay, that's it, we're done learning for that function" which makes me kind of nervous, because how does it know that I'm ready to move on to the next? It's okay, I accept that it somehow knows. I just want it to work.

What I'm still hung up on, though is the banks. What if the function I want to map is in the same row as another I want to map, but in a different bank? For instance, with MEQualizer, I want to map the first 4 knobs across the top of the compressor (Dry/Wet, Shift, Output, and Saturation) to the first 4 knobs in the R1-8 row.

That works out fine for Dry/Wet and Saturation because they're in the R1-8 row in bank 1. Not so great for Shift and Output ("Gain") because they're both in the S1-8 row, but in different banks. Apparently only parameters from one bank at a time can be active, and you choose which bank in the dialog?

Since the whole thing with the parameters showing up in various cells looks arbitrary, it seems kind of sad if there's  no workaround, like I just lose the parameter lottery if the ones I want share a row but not a bank?

I'm sure I have a lot of this wrong, but I feel like I'm closer to getting it to work than I've ever been before. I mean, heck, I can set three knobs on my controller to control three parameters on a plug-in, and it's recallable. I've never gotten this far before.

[azslow3]

If you read (and understand... probably requires read several times) user manual for "Cakewalk ACT MIDI" (and "Cakewalk Generic surface") plug-ins, you can get relatively far away in controlling plug-ins (except problem with persistence, I mean if after restarting Cakewalk your mappings are messed... then you need AZ ACT Fix and related explanation from my site).

In short:

• don't mix "MIDI learn" and "ACT learn".
  • You do "MIDI learn" by clicking in the lower part of cell and using hardware control. You do this once and forever.
  • Then (and only then) you do "ACT learn". By pressing "ACT" button in particular (VST(i)) plug-in top-bar (or in surface module or in surface plug-in GUI). You learn by touching parameters in sequence (with mouse) and using related hardware controls (previously learned with "MIDI learn"). If you use banks, make sure required bank is selected. You do this for each VST(i) separately, hopefully once.
• banks are software feature. "ACT MIDI" supports 8+8+(8+1) physical controls, and no more. There are 8 buttons + shift button, so you can use up to 16 button commands in parallel. For faders and knobs there is just one current bank (for each type) with 8 controls. Bank has to be somehow selected to be active.
• selected banks, activating ACT, etc. can be assigned to buttons. Unlike "ACT learn", that has to be done in surface GUI, on the second tab.

 

[Starship Krupa]

17 hours ago, azslow3 said:

If you read (and understand... probably requires read several times) user manual for "Cakewalk ACT MIDI" (and "Cakewalk Generic surface") plug-ins....

I'm trying to follow the documentation and immediately ran into one of my biggest stumbling blocks while reading the Reference Guide:

At the start, when giving step by step instructions, it says "if you want to use Active Controller Technology, or if your controller/surface is not listed, select either the Cakewalk Generic Surface or the ACT MIDI Controller."

I should flip a coin here? When I'm reading instructions and the instructions give me a choice that I am not informed about in any way, my train of learning gets derailed. Which is it? If it makes no difference, why have two options? If it DOES make a difference, tell me why before I make the decision. ?‍♂️

I started out with the ACT MIDI Controller because it comes earlier in the alphabet.

This following paragraph is as useless as boobies on a boar hog:

"To edit default mappings
On the Options tab, in the Rotaries, Sliders, or Buttons fields, choose the Bank of parameter mappings that you want to edit,
then select a new parameter for that Bank. For example, if in the Rotaries field, you select Bank 4, and the parameter field next
to the Bank field now reads Send 2 Pan, you could select Send 2 Vol instead. If you then click the Controllers tab, and select
Bank 4 in the Bank menu that’s in the rotaries row, the rotary knobs will now control Send 2 Volume on all the tracks currently
under control. If you have at least 2 sends in each track, the Rotary fields on the Controllers tab will now display the name and
current level of each Send 2 in the controlled tracks."

I don't want to control "tracks," I want to turn a knob on the controller and have it change a parameter in a synth plug-in. When I click on the Options tab, those banks can't be assigned to the synth's parameters, the dialog looks like this:

Notice how there's no "Pan" or "Vol?" The rest of the parameters I have to choose from are all Sends, which the synth doesn't have either.

This is what the "Controllers" dialog looks like:

So let's say I want to assign 4 sliders as follows: Filter ADSR and Volume ADSR. Notice that the only one of those parameters that's on this screen is Filter Attack. The rest of those show up in the first row if I select Bank 2.

So far, it doesn't look like I can control Filter Attack at the same time I'm controlling Filter Decay Sustain and Release and Volume Attack, Decay, Sustain, and Release. The documentation seems to say that I can change the bank to control, say Volume, which I guess would be useful in cases where I wanted to have all 8 knobs controlling the plug-in's volume, but contrarian that I am, I don't want to do that. Ever.

Fortunately, I suppose, when I try to set Bank 1 of the first row to control Vol., it doesn't take. This is a plus.

The documentation has it completely wrong here: "You can edit the cell label by clicking the label and entering a new name in the Edit Label dialog box."

Um, no I can't, when I click anywhere in the cell it puts the entire dialog into "MIDI Learn" where it stays until I move a knob or click back in the cell.

When I switched (based on nothing other than that using the ACT MIDI Controller only gets me halfway there) to the Cakewalk Generic Surface, the things that the documentation say are supposed to happen, again, don't happen.

" The garbled characters indicating what the control surface is controlling are an interesting touch. Accurate, in a certain sense.

"5. Enable the ACT Learn Mode button in the Control Bar’s ACT module.
6. In the property page of the plug-in that you want to control, click the parameters that you want to control.
7. Move the sliders/knobs on your controller/surface that you want to use to control the parameters with, in the same order that you
clicked the parameters (you can reverse steps 6 and 7)."

Again, this does not work. When I tried it, the first slider wound up controlling every parameter.

The way it's worded, it looks like it wants you to first click, click, click, click on the various knobs you wish to control, then wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle each physical knob. Is that correct? Or is it click/wiggle, click/wiggle, click/wiggle, click/wiggle?

I tried both and got the same result, the first slider controlling all of them.

This is an educational process. The thing I'm learning is why "improve support for control surfaces" is such a popular feature request.

My nanoKONTROL2 has been essentially useless since I started using Cakewalk almost 5 years ago. I take a swing at this about once a year, that's all my patience can handle.

The way I would like it to work is that there would be a dialog where you would click to add as many cells as you wish to assign. Then you would click in that cell and have a way to choose the parameter you want from a list populated with the same information that the plug-in exposes to Cakewalk's automation. Then you would choose which knob you want to control that parameter, either by using MIDI learn or by typing in the MIDI CC number.

It could still have an "Options" tab, for the stuff like Banks and Shift Modifier/Shift Learn.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Starship Krupa

[SketalDaz]

3 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

I'm trying to follow the documentation and found one of my biggest stumbling blocks while reading the Reference Guide:

At the start, when giving step by step instructions, it says "if you want to use Active Controller Technology, or if your controller/surface is not listed, select either the
Cakewalk Generic Surface or the ACT MIDI Controller."

So I should flip a coin here? When I'm reading instructions and the instructions give me a choice that I am utterly not informed about in any way, my train of learning gets derailed. Which is it? If it makes no difference, why have two options? If it DOES make a difference, tell me why before I make the decision. ?‍♂️

Hi Starship,

Few days back, I extensively played with both of the settings -- Cakewalk Generic Surface and the ACT MIDI Controller -- for my Alesis VI49 and found that the Cakewalk Generic Surface menu to be more intuitive, but it does work for both settings. One thing you should make sure to do is after you assigned a CC to a parameter, don't just "twiddle" the rotary / slider; you need to push or turn them to the max negative and positive values. That is when the DAW can actually align the values of the parameter to your Korg nanoKONTROL2. Hope this helps.

EDIT:

Ok @Starship Krupa,

I looked at the two options -- Cakewalk Generic Surface and the ACT MIDI Controller --  again and the main difference that I was able to find between the two is simply workflow on how Cakewalk register and read your MIDI Assignment. For the ACT MIDI Controller, the DAW would read your controller as if there are 8 columns of 1 rotary, 1 sliders, and 1 button, and expect that the user want switch the parameter of each row of rotaries, sliders, and buttons respectively via banks. It also will assume that the 8 columns correlates  the first 8 tracks when launching the setup. So if you assigned a controller on your Korg nanoKONTROL2 to a cell labeled R1 (Rotary 1) and then, in the option menu, assigned bank 1 of the "ROTARY" row to control the volume and bank 2 of that same row to control panning , then that controller on your KONTROL2 will control the volume for track 1 when the ROTARY row is on bank 1 and will control panning for track 1 when the row is on bank 2. This logic applies to plugins, but he difference is that you can't customize how the parameters are assigned to each banks.

The Cakewalk Generic Surface, on the other hand, isn't as dynamic as the ACT MIDI Controller 'cause it doesn't change the assigned parameters base on banks; it is static and predictable, which is the reason why I see this option to be more intuitive. One issue that I encountered when working with it is that it may not show all the parameters of a selected plugin, so one may have a difficult time trying to assign a parameter not shown on the menu.

3 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The way I would like it to work is that there would be a dialog where you would click to add as many cells as you wish to assign. Then you would click in that cell and have a way to choose the parameter you want from a list populated with the same information that the plug-in exposes to Cakewalk's automation. Then you would choose which knob you want to control that parameter, either by using MIDI learn or by typing in the MIDI CC number.

I had a similar thought in mind for as adding parameters, but for the Cakewalk Generic Surface menu. Also, instead of just one controller to a parameter, it would be nice to be able to assign various combination of controllers to trigger that parameter and then use a controller to adjust the values of that parameter. I discussed it in the following Feedback Loop thread.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by SketalDaz

[azslow3]

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

At the start, when giving step by step instructions, it says "if you want to use Active Controller Technology, or if your controller/surface is not listed, select either the Cakewalk Generic Surface or the ACT MIDI Controller."

I should flip a coin here? When I'm reading instructions and the instructions give me a choice that I am not informed about in any way, my train of learning gets derailed. Which is it? If it makes no difference, why have two options? If it DOES make a difference, tell me why before I make the decision. ?‍♂️

You are in a music shop... If you are here to buy particular piano, that is simple. But if you want "a guitar"... man, there are 100s of them... What the hell??? Why there is no big shield telling me which one should I buy? OMG, most of them have 6 strings. So, why so many options? Are they different? Tell me why!

Seriously... There are 2 different programs (Generic Surface and ACT MIDI). Yes, they both work with controllers. And they both can work with ANY MIDI controller. How you want Cakewalk "tell you" the difference, other then explaining the functionality of each in a separate manual section?

CONTROL SURFACES ARE COMPLICATED DEVICES, RELATED SOFTWARE IS ALSO COMPLICATED. Most musicians know that playing snare can be as easy as just hit it by something... but that is not really musical... and playing it good takes time and patience. Yet they see something with 20 buttons, 8 faders and 8 knobs and immediately think "ha! that I can use strait away to control what I want, since it LOOKS LIKE AN ANALOG MIXER".

The complexity starts with terms... "ACT" is used for several different things. "ACT API" is programming interface used by all Cakewalk surface plug-ins (a kind of VST for surfaces). "ACT MIDI" is one particular program. "ACT Learn" is Plug-in Dynamic Mapping part of "ACT API" and so related functionality of some (not all!) surface plug-ins.

Unfortunately, Cakewalk omit the second word at many places. Lets take screenshots from your post:

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

 

 

" The garbled characters indicating what the control surface is controlling are an interesting touch. Accurate, in a certain sense.

"ACT" button - "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping" related, really "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping Learn" button, at other places called "ACT Learn" or "AL".

"Exclude this bank from ACT" - also about "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping"!  That is the place to enable/disabled particular bank of faders/knobs or individual buttons for plug-in control!

"ACT follow context" - "ACT MIDI" (surface plug-in) follow Cakewalk context.  If you click on console, tracks or VST(i) GUI - that change the context. And "ACT MIDI" change (or not change) what your device control.

"Active Controller Technology" - again "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping"! Should be enabled to control plug-ins. When enabled and "ACT follow context" is disabled, "ACT MIDI" will always control plug-in (by controls not marked by "Exclude this... from ACT", and if some plug-in ever was in focus).

To learn more, read https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,107.0.html I explain how "ACT MIDI" works (using "ACT API") in all details there.

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The documentation has it completely wrong here: "You can edit the cell label by clicking the label and entering a new name in the Edit Label dialog box."

Um, no I can't, when I click anywhere in the cell it puts the entire dialog into "MIDI Learn" where it stays until I move a knob or click back in the cell.

Read one (two, three...) more time. "You can edit the cell label...". That is the text which is "R1", "S1", "B1", etc.

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The way I would like it to work is that there would be a dialog where you would click to add as many cells as you wish to assign. Then you would click in that cell and have a way to choose the parameter you want from a list populated with the same information that the plug-in exposes to Cakewalk's automation. Then you would choose which knob you want to control that parameter, either by using MIDI learn or by typing in the MIDI CC number.

Than you want something AZ Controller or at least AZ ACT Fix: https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,297.0.html

But exact procedure you describe does not work great in practice... Remember how long it sometimes takes to find required parameter to automate in drop-down menu, there can be 1000s of them. And in many cases they don't have meaningful names at all (or just "Macro 5", to whatever it is assigned to current preset).

So modifying in the GUI is normally way simpler then selecting from menu. AZ Controller is using that approach, but allows "click on cell" to associate with particular "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping Virtual Control".

In my previous post I have mentioned: "MIDI learn" associate device control with "virtual" control, "ACT Learn" associate VST(i) plug-in control with "virtual" control.
F.e. "Slider bank 2, slider 3" in "ACT MIDI" is "virtual" slider (2-1)*8+3 = 11. "Slider 3" in any bank is physical slider 3 on your device (once you have MIDI learned it).

Generic Surface has a bit different approach and configuration. It supports unlimited number of controls, but at most 16 virtual controls for "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping".

PS. "Mackie Control" surface plug-in is also "ACT API" based plug-in. But it does NOT support "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping" (so no "ACT Learn" possible). It is using "Direct Plug-in Control" part of "ACT API" for plug-ins, the mapping is (manually) defined in a text file... There are times that has advantages. "ACT MIDI" and "Generic surface" do not support "Direct Plug-in Control" method.

PSPS. AZ Controller supports both "Plug-in Dynamic Mapping" and "Direct Plug-in Control".

[Starship Krupa]

3 hours ago, azslow3 said:

You are in a music shop... If you are here to buy particular piano, that is simple. But if you want "a guitar"... man, there are 100s of them... What the hell??? Why there is no big shield telling me which one should I buy? OMG, most of them have 6 strings. So, why so many options? Are they different? Tell me why!

And a salesperson notices your confusion and comes over to help you choose. ?

My complaint isn't that there is a choice, it's that the documentation has you make that choice before it explains what the difference is between them. Of course Cakewalk can't tell me the difference, but that's what the documentation is supposed to do.

My music shop salesperson tells me the difference before I choose a guitar to buy. And now  I'm facing the fact that I might have chosen the wrong plug-in for my application, wasting hours of time as a result.

3 hours ago, azslow3 said:

"You can edit the cell label...". That is the text which is "R1", "S1", "B1", etc.

I finally figured that out. I thought that the "label" was the name of the parameter.

I really do appreciate your effort to help me sort it all out, but to be honest, this is all too much for me to absorb, at least at this point.

I want to assign a handful of knobs and sliders to certain parameters of some of my plug-ins. Right now, it looks like my biggest issue is that the parameters I want to control are assigned to different banks, and when I'm in the middle of tuning my filter cutoff and resonance, there would be the stumbling block of having to switch banks (assuming I could figure out how to do that). Is there no way to move parameters to different cells (or bank), or am I stuck with Cakewalk's assignments? I'm referring to the ACT MIDI Controller here. Can I move a parameter from Bank 2 to Bank 1?

I'll spend some time with the Generic Surface and see if I can get better results.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Starship Krupa

[msmcleod]

@azslow3 - thanks for your input here... you've done a pretty good job of explaining everything.

If I could add to it, and hopefully not muddy the waters!

The Control Surface API was primarily geared at transport and track (fader/pan/MSR) control, as at the time it was written, this is what most control surfaces were designed to control.  It was made public so that control surface manufacturers could develop & provide dedicated control surface DLL's for their products.

With that said, there are basically two types of control surface with Cakewalk:

Type 1: Control Surfaces geared to a particular piece of hardware, with the intention of controlling transport & tracks.
Type 2: Totally generic surfaces, with a bunch of faders and/or pots or rotary encoders with no specific purpose.  These can be used to control either transport/tracks, or dynamic plugin control via ACT Learn.

The Generic Control Surface is more of a type 1 - it's very old and can be used for surfaces that have no dedicated control surface DLL, and also as a reference for people writing their own control surface DLL.

The "ACT MIDI Controller" control surface is newer and can be either Type 1 or Type 2.

When using the ACT MIDI Controller for dynamic plugin control, the main purpose of the ACT Control Surface dialog is to specify what controls are available (i.e. buttons / faders / sliders), and what MIDI message they send.  

In essence

• You "MIDI Learn" within the ACT MIDI Controller dialog to teach it what controls are available on your device.
• You "ACT Learn" synth or effect parameters to link them up with a particular control.

Note:  the main reason you do the "MIDI Learn" step, is so that Cakewalk tries to assign default parameters to controls when you first enable ACT on a plugin.  But of course, you can use ACT Learn to override these assignments.

This is one of the best videos I've found explaining it all:
 

 

[Simon Wilkinson]

I'm in the same situation as @Starship Krupa in that once or twice a year I dig out my MIDI controller (either a Behringer X-Mini or the rotaries/sliders on my MIDI keyboard) and try to get them to play nice with ACT so I can have a bit more physical control with some VSTs but I usually end up giving up out of frustration.

I can occasionally get it to work but not consistently enough to stop breaking my musical workflow. I usually want something simple like ACT learn to pickup control of maybe a filter on a VST synth and it will work once or twice but then I might try to switch control to a different parameter and suddenly ACT learn just ignores anything I do.

I'm pretty sure it isn't user error because I'll try quitting Cakewalk and restarting and doing exactly the same ACT learn process and then it works again for a while until I try changing something and suddenly ACT learn ignores me again (yes I make sure the VST is always in focus).

I've also tried using AZSlow which is great but I still get the same result that sometimes ACT learn just won't pickup my movements. Then I restart and it works fine again. I've also followed all the videos and advice above but it never works consistently.

There's so much potential in how ACT can bring a bit of physicality to my workflow but it always drives me to frustration in how inconsistent it works for me that I just give up and resort to dragging a mouse around a GUI!

[Starship Krupa]

14 hours ago, msmcleod said:

If I could add to it, and hopefully not muddy the waters!

The linked video finally made it click.

I'll hazard a guess that this corner of the code base hasn't been paid a visit in a long time....

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Simon Wilkinson said:

once or twice a year I dig out my MIDI controller (either a Behringer X-Mini or the rotaries/sliders on my MIDI keyboard) and try to get them to play nice with ACT so I can have a bit more physical control with some VSTs but I usually end up giving up out of frustration.

I'm writing up a simplified tutorial that may help. It explains some things and skips a bunch of things that I don't think are important to the average new user.

One of my suggestions is to start small. Pick one plug-in to get working reliably, and only map the controls you really want to use. For me, that's usually only about half a dozen, if that. My controller doesn't display the parameters it's set to and I can only remember and operate so many of them. Only have 10 fingers.

The two things that I keep getting hung up on are "is the plug-in actually in focus?" and "do I have the controls set to Jump or Match?" Jump or Match can mess me up because if it's Jump, at first it will look like the knob isn't doing anything.

I suspect that unfortunately at this point, the code for this is in the "if ya can't fix it, it ain't broke" category until a complete overhaul is undertaken. But now that I understand the whole thing better, I can add my voice to those who are advocating for better control surface support. When I watch videos of either studios or stage performers, there is always some kind of controller in their rig, whether it's a pad controller or a knobs 'n' sliders controller.

For me to consider using any DAW for live performance of electronic music, it would have to play nice with my controller. I gotta be able to work that lowpass filter cutoff!

[azslow3]

10 hours ago, Simon Wilkinson said:

I'm in the same situation as @Starship Krupa in that once or twice a year I dig out my MIDI controller (either a Behringer X-Mini ...

For X-Mini, it is simpler to start with https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,377.0.html

But for learning plug-ins, you should also follow the last link in the post,  AZ ACT Fix.
Cakewalk still has bugs in the association (ACT Learn), some plug-ins can't be learned, some parameters prevent learning, etc. Forgetting mappings (a part of AZ ACT Fix functionality), getting "default one" (by starting Cakewalk again and bringing plug-in into focus) and then re-assigning in AZ ACT Fix allows control plug-ins with problems. Making backups allows keeping working configuration.

"Eventual assignment" in fact needs luck to work.

[Simon Wilkinson]

14 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

For X-Mini, it is simpler to start with https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,377.0.html

Thanks Alexey, I have read and followed that post of yours before (and I spoke with you a while ago). Your plugin is really great and works well but whether I use AZSlow, ACT Midi Controller or Cakewalk Generic Surface I always get the same problem eventually.

Sometimes ACT Learn picks up what I'm teaching it but after a while it just randomly stops recognising my movements (even if it's a parameter that it recognised previously). A restart of Cakewalk usually gets it working again (or as you say, by using your ACT Fix app). But then it happens again at some random point. The fact that after a restart it will then recognise exactly the same thing that it didn't recognise before the restart makes it look like some kind of bug in the way ACT works.

ACT is *almost* usable but it's just a bit too buggy and fiddly in its current state. Hopefully at some point the use of control surfaces in Cakewalk will get an overhaul

[azslow3]

2 hours ago, Simon Wilkinson said:

Sometimes ACT Learn picks up what I'm teaching it but after a while it just randomly stops recognising my movements (even if it's a parameter that it recognised previously). A restart of Cakewalk usually gets it working again (or as you say, by using your ACT Fix app). But then it happens again at some random point. The fact that after a restart it will then recognise exactly the same thing that it didn't recognise before the restart makes it look like some kind of bug in the way ACT works.

ACT is *almost* usable but it's just a bit too buggy and fiddly in its current state. Hopefully at some point the use of control surfaces in Cakewalk will get an overhaul

I am almost completely agree with all that. Just with 2 notes:

• ACT as a whole API is usable (not *almost*), it just has several long existing bugs. Unfortunately, Plug-in Dynamic Mapping learning is a part of ACT with bugs. At the moment VST3 "On/Off" was introduced as the first "parameter", which in turn broke Dynamic Mapping for VST3 completely, Cakewalk has definitively noticed there are problems. But they have preferred just "hot fix" it, instead of looking deeper to understand from where all these bugs come.
• Plug-in Dynamic Mapping is also usable. It is just of Sonar X2 quality, so "usable if you avoid some particular operations"

Plug-in dynamic mappings was indented to be easily definable in GUI. In practice, it is simpler to edit XML then get it work reliably. It was not much fun to edit XML for me, so I have written ACT Fix (there was also "Map editor" for BCR2000 from one of the users, for the same purpose).

Note that for Mackie, editing INI file is the only option to define plug-in mappings. Interesting there are no complains about that, even so majority of surface "pro" users are using Mackie.

Once the mapping for particular plug-in is created (with some luck using ACT Learn), from my experience it works fine.

[abacab]

I used to have a Cakewalk (Roland) A-300PRO hooked up with Sonar via the ACT Control Surface. It was a bit fiddly to initially get set up (and that was years ago), but seemed to work OK. But ACT never really clicked for me.

After moving on to several different MIDI keyboard controllers I have left ACT behind for now, and just use the MIDI CC learn for the few plugin controls that I want to control, no special setups required beyond using MIDI learn in the plugins.

But my current controller, an Arturia KeyLab 61 Mk II, has a dedicated plugin mode (Analog Lab, but that works for direct manual MIDI learn in any plugin that supports MIDI learn), and several dedicated DAW modes, including Cubase. I setup a Mackie Control Universal (new Cubase Mode) surface in Cakewalk and that works fine as a track and transport controller in CbB.

When I want to control plugins directly with CC, I just switch my controller to Analog Lab mode. One click back and forth on the controller front panel between that and DAW mode with Mackie Control is quite reliable. I find this way of working much more intuitive, at least for me.

So if your controller supports "Mackie Control Universal" and Cubase, it might just be worth a try with the new "Cubase Mode" option recently added to CbB. I'm not saying that you would need an Arturia controller, just one that properly supports MCU and/or Cubase. No specific recommendations for hardware, as I have only tried this with the controller I own.

Edited October 31, 2022 by abacab

[whoisp]

 

I have a strange issue with my Novation Launch Key 25 the new MKIII version and Novation could not help but i have it working if anyone interested. 

For a start the MKIII brings in 2 midi inputs Device names with how Windows handles USB devices; LKMK3 MIDI & MIDIIN2 (LKMK3 MIDI)   so you need to add 2 act midi controllers for the one device.

(ACT MIDI controller 1 )  = LKMK3 MIDI 

(ACT MIDI controller 2)   = MIDIIN2 (LKMK3 MIDI)    

Now this creates a problem with having 2 controllers with "1 hardware device" The  Novation Launch Key 25 "New MKIII version" and i am not sure if other hardware have this same bug or programming issue, i would suspect yes when it comes to USB. You also have to install the Novation USB driver, most keyboard controllers act as mass storage device, they will run some start up software for mapping or presets or registration etc

Breif:

Controller 1 LKMK3 MIDI  works with "MIDI learn"  to populate fields like play/stop/next group etc  i created template "Novation LK 25 MIII" and save it and works great. However, when  i  "enable " strip parameters to use the "ACT learn"  to start deep intergradation for in this matter SynthMaster plugin, it will not work on that controller 1, whereby;

We move to Controller 2 different name "MIDIIN2 (LKMK3 MIDI)"  same device but a more compatible with cakewalk act learn.   When i  "enable " strip parameters on Controller 2 to use "ACT learn"   works a treat so i can control a plugins like synth-master. In this case i can control the 8 EZ KNOBS etc for automation and live jamming on the controller etc. 

Therefore, I had to set up 2 controllers  to learn midi & plugins, only "controller 2" would deep learn with act which will not work with 1 controller, you still have to install both act midi controller even though its the same midi device. 

Hope that helps anyone 

 

 

On 10/28/2022 at 5:35 PM, azslow3 said:

If you read (and understand... probably requires read several times) user manual for "Cakewalk ACT MIDI" (and "Cakewalk Generic surface") plug-ins, you can get relatively far away in controlling plug-ins (except problem with persistence, I mean if after restarting Cakewalk your mappings are messed... then you need AZ ACT Fix and related explanation from my site).

In short:

• don't mix "MIDI learn" and "ACT learn".
  • You do "MIDI learn" by clicking in the lower part of cell and using hardware control. You do this once and forever.
  • Then (and only then) you do "ACT learn". By pressing "ACT" button in particular (VST(i)) plug-in top-bar (or in surface module or in surface plug-in GUI). You learn by touching parameters in sequence (with mouse) and using related hardware controls (previously learned with "MIDI learn"). If you use banks, make sure required bank is selected. You do this for each VST(i) separately, hopefully once.
• banks are software feature. "ACT MIDI" supports 8+8+(8+1) physical controls, and no more. There are 8 buttons + shift button, so you can use up to 16 button commands in parallel. For faders and knobs there is just one current bank (for each type) with 8 controls. Bank has to be somehow selected to be active.
• selected banks, activating ACT, etc. can be assigned to buttons. Unlike "ACT learn", that has to be done in surface GUI, on the second tab.

 

 

[azslow3]

11 hours ago, whoisp said:

I have a strange issue with my Novation Launch Key 25 the new MKIII version and Novation could not help but i have it working if anyone interested. 

For a start the MKIII brings in 2 midi inputs Device names with how Windows handles USB devices; LKMK3 MIDI & MIDIIN2 (LKMK3 MIDI)   so you need to add 2 act midi controllers for the one device.

(ACT MIDI controller 1 )  = LKMK3 MIDI 

(ACT MIDI controller 2)   = MIDIIN2 (LKMK3 MIDI)    

Now this creates a problem with having 2 controllers with "1 hardware device" The  Novation Launch Key 25 "New MKIII version" and i am not sure if other hardware have this same bug or programming issue, i would suspect yes when it comes to USB. You also have to install the Novation USB driver, most keyboard controllers act as mass storage device, they will run some start up software for mapping or presets or registration etc

Keyboards with Mackie emulation (according to the documentation, Launch Key 25 MKIII has it) always have to exposed themselves as 2 MIDI devices, one for "normal" MIDI (at least keys), other for DAW control.

"Standard" setup for this case is what abacab has described, try to follow "Cubase" section in Novation documentation and "Mackie Control" in Cakewalk. In Cakewalk Mackie settings you set "Cubase"  and "Disable handshake".

Other port can be used for "ACT MIDI" or for direct MIDI learning in VSTi (some FXes also support MIDI input).

You switch "modes" on device, using Novation provided method.

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Note. This thread is about nanoKontrol 2. It has no second pair of ports no live mapping switch. Arturia / Novation MK3 methods are NOT usable with this Korg.
With AZ Controller it is possible switching modes in software, one device with fixed MIDI mapping can be used for ACT (DAW or plug-in control) and for MIDI learn in VSTi. But that is the only ACT Control Surface plug-in which supports that.