Better Video Support

[Starship Krupa]

41 minutes ago, murat k. said:

This is an ongoing general issue for everyone who use Cakewalk.

I've been using Cakewalk for over 4 years and it's not an issue for me. General, ongoing, or otherwise. If everyone else who uses Cakewalk is suffering as you are, they are doing so in silence.

I wasn't trying to have an argument, merely to give you some advice that might help you eventually get a solution.

Keep the secrets of your workstation configuration to yourself, relax. and wait for the Cakewalk developers to fix the issue. Good luck! ?

[murat k.]

41 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I wasn't trying to have an argument, merely to give you some advice that might help you eventually get a solution.

 

There is no argument. And this is not a bug report to get a solution. This is a request for the file format compability for the playback of video files.

51 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I've been using Cakewalk for over 4 years and it's not an issue for me. General, ongoing, or otherwise. If everyone else who uses Cakewalk is suffering as you are, they are doing so in silence.

If you have no trouble with the video files it depends on the file and the codec you use like I said earlier. Not your system. I have encountered the same issues with different machines which have different system specs. 

44 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

Keep the secrets of your workstation configuration to yourself, relax. and wait for the Cakewalk developers to fix the issue.

When the developers fix the playback issue it will work with every system configuration for every supported video file format like others do. So relax and watch.

44 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

Good luck! ?

Thank you. ?

[Lord Tim]

46 minutes ago, murat k. said:

When the developers fix the playback issue it will work with every system configuration for every supported video file format like others do. So relax and watch.

I think you're being a lot more optimistic than you should be here.

Like I said, go look at the Vegas forums as a great example of an app that's specifically designed for video, and supports a wide range of formats and codecs still having massive trouble with outliers.

As I mentioned earlier, the difference between one MP4 and the next, even ones using the same codec can make or break how a system responds to things. 30fps? Fine. 60fps? Maybe fine. Variable frame rate between 18 and 60? Good luck with that. Something other than AAC as the audio? Will it import? Dunno, maybe? Will this format play without hardware acceleration? Perhaps? Some most certainly play badly without it, if at all (HEVC being a great example of that). This is exactly why we usually transcode or create proxies to make editing go smoother.

It's a complicated problem for a niche amount of users in a DAW, as much as I am one of those users and I do agree it should be improved.

What Erik was saying is right though - without knowing exactly what you're trying to import in, just saying "but Cubase can do it" is not helpful. 

46 minutes ago, murat k. said:

This is a request for the file format compability for the playback of video files.

But we don't know what format your videos are, that's the point. That's why we say grab Mediainfo and show us the ones you're having issues with.  It could be a codec issue. It could be that your hardware doesn't support acceleration of the codec and is decoding using the CPU that's causing glitches in CbB. The more info you can provide, the more the devs can work out what needs fixing in the first place, and the rest of us can help you troubleshoot and give an alternative in the interim.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lord Tim

[Byron Dickens]

Why the hell would someone who ostensibly wants help be so completely uncooperative with those trying to give it?

Screw him.

Edited June 17, 2022 by bdickens

[murat k.]

You should understand what I'm trying to do at first, if you want to cooperate. This is a simple procedure.

I didn't say anything about Editing. Promidi came with like I'm trying to make edits in the Cakewalk.

Erik has a thought that this is issue is related to my system. I tried to tell this is a general issue.

Tim has some thoughts like the same.

I created this topic by thinking some other people will join and the fix become quicker. But things didn't go that way. No problem.

I made some research in the day to explain that blinking black screen is a general issue and it is not related to my system.

Codecs seems the reason because some of the video files works without trouble.

Also changing the engine to DirectShow fixed the issue for some of them.

You'll see that black blink on pause at  2:18

Another video, the blink is at 2:57

 

 

[Lord Tim]

The reason both Erik and I are mentioning system is that is could be codec related (likely is) but some formats need particular hardware to accelerate the decoding, or the CPU will do it, which will cause glitches.

I'll say again, nobody can fix anything if "it's broken" is the only thing you'll offer. There's far too many variables to say what actually needs fixing. Obviously something does need work, but with no info, it's just a shell game; one that can be solved with showing the media info of the clip and what your system specs are.

We're not trying to be argumentative, we're actually trying to help you get to the bottom of the root cause and give actual data to the Devs to look into it. You don't go to the doctor and say "I'm sick" and then refuse to give any information or participate in any tests, and you wouldn't expect any meaningful results if you did that anyway. This is the same thing. Fixing these issues helps *all of us* that work with video in CbB.

[Byron Dickens]

My car won't start. Help.

[murat k.]

2 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

The reason both Erik and I are mentioning system is that is could be codec related (likely is) but some formats need particular hardware to accelerate the decoding, or the CPU will do it, which will cause glitches.

I'll say again, nobody can fix anything if "it's broken" is the only thing you'll offer. There's far too many variables to say what actually needs fixing. Obviously something does need work, but with no info, it's just a shell game; one that can be solved with showing the media info of the clip and what your system specs are.

We're not trying to be argumentative, we're actually trying to help you get to the bottom of the root cause and give actual data to the Devs to look into it. You don't go to the doctor and say "I'm sick" and then refuse to give any information or participate in any tests, and you wouldn't expect any meaningful results if you did that anyway. This is the same thing. Fixing these issues helps *all of us* that work with video in CbB.

What you still don't get is, when the issue is general, all I can give these kind of information. Not my GPU or the Codec information will help to fix the issue. Because it's GENERAL. It means there are too many people with too many systems are having this issue  with too many video files. OK?

[Lord Tim]

OK then, tell me why one MP4 I have here will play in CbB when another one will fail to load and won't produce audio?

Or on this same machine, one video will play smoothly, but another one will pause for a second or two before it plays?

Or on a different machine, one video that plays smoothly on this machine will stutter and cause all kinds of issues?

I know the answer.  But without giving you any details, can you tell me why that is, and why all of these videos that are all MP4 files work so differently?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lord Tim

[murat k.]

41 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

OK then, tell me why one MP4 I have here will play in CbB when another one will fail to load and won't produce audio?

I know the answer. Can you tell me why that is?

I think I explained the issue I had in this topic well enough. It started to become an argument. I don't want it to go that way. Lets leave the rest to the developers. OK?

[Lord Tim]

I edited my above post as you were replying. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to make a point. 

This is NOT a general issue. It's directly tied to codecs and hardware.

I'll answer my own questions above:

One MP4 was a h.264 30fps, 720p AAC and played fine with no issues on any machine.

One MP4 had unsupported codecs.

Another MP4 was high bitrate 60fps 4K.

Another one was 4K HEVC with 10 bit colour.

On the surface, every single one of these files look exactly the same. They are all MP4.

30fps 720p is going to use far less system resources to play than a high bitrate 60fps 4K file. On my main hardware, they both played fine. On slightly older hardware the 4K file had big issues.

Even on good hardware the HEVC one stuttered when it started but it played, but on lesser hardware that didn't have direct HEVC decoding, it was giving me barely 3fps and lagging the timeline.

How this stuff interacts with your hardware, and knowing what is actually inside these MP4 files is important to narrowing down what is going on, so you can actually do as you said - leave it to the developers. Without that information, they're just guessing.

The bottom line is there's no really good reason to withhold any information that people ask for, even if it doesn't seem relevant on the surface. This could mean the difference between living with a broken or incomplete feature or actually taking steps to getting it fixed.

But agreed, let's leave it at that.

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, murat k. said:

Erik has a thought that this is issue is related to my system.

Mm, no. Do not attribute words to me that I did not write or attribute thoughts to me that I do not have.

I went to some lengths to give you suggestions about what goes into effective defect reporting and why. I never said "it must be something about your computer."

BTW, "Too many people with too many systems are having this issue with too many video files," you say. Yet so far, you're the only person I've seen complaining about it. As mysterious as your model of video card or version of Windows.....

[murat k.]

As a summary,
The blinking black screen on pause issue is an ongoing issue in the Cakewalk since SONAR X1.
The issue is happening in some of the videos regardless of the supported video file format.
The issue is not related to the system settings like the GPU or the Operating System version.
The issue has a relation with the codec the video use.
Changing the video engine to DirectShow fixes the issue for some of the video files.
The video player in the Cakewalk needs fixation regarding the issues.

Also,
Codec support of the imported audio files in the videos needs to be renovated with the newest codecs.

And,
Imported Video Audios placement to the Video Thumbnail section.

[murat k.]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:09 PM, Lord Tim said:

This is NOT a general issue. It's directly tied to codecs and hardware.

 

No. The issue is in the video player. This is what general means.

22 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

I never said "it must be something about your computer."

I never said that.

17 hours ago, murat k. said:

As a summary,
The blinking black screen on pause issue is an ongoing issue in the Cakewalk since SONAR X1.
The issue is happening in some of the videos regardless of the supported video file format.
The issue is not related to the system settings like the GPU or the Operating System version.
The issue has a relation with the codec the video use.
Changing the video engine to DirectShow fixes the issue for some of the video files.
The video player in the Cakewalk needs fixation regarding the issues.

Also,
Codec support of the imported audio files in the videos needs to be renovated with the newest codecs.

And,
Imported Video Audios placement to the Video Thumbnail section.

If there is more information neeed than I give here, the developers can ask to me anytime.

[murat k.]

Also when Imported Video Audios placement to the Video Thumbnail section become life having an option in the Import Video window for to select Import audio stream as a reference or as a track would be practical for to use the Video Audio for different purposes.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by murat k.

[murat k.]

Today I found that even if I change the engine in AUD.INI to DirectShow, when I insert an MP4 file, it automatically switches it to the Media Foundation Engine.

And when the Media Foundation Engine is active we see that "Blink" on play/pause.

[murat k.]

When we import the Video Audio as a reference, audio data will be read from the source video file. It doesn't need a conversion. When we do that, storing only audio waveform data will be enough in the project. So it will lead us to store less data for the document storage.

[murat k.]

At the end Cakewalk will look like this:

[OutrageProductions]

On 6/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, murat k. said:

I thought you were joking. No I think this issue doesn't depend on my system. Like I said in this phrase:

It seems Cakewalk has issues with video playbacks regardless of my or any system. This is a problem and I think we don't have to deal with converters, other 3rd party softwares like @Promidi said. Cakewalk has to deal with the video formats automatically like Cubase do. This is the normal thing a normal user can expect.

I have used the video window for composing to ever since it was first introduced in Sonar; using WMV, MPEG-4, and AVI files, and have NEVER ONCE had any glitches, black screens, or other anomaly occur. So, yeah... it would seem that it IS system dependent.

Edited June 27, 2022 by OutrageProductions

[murat k.]

2 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

I have used the video window for composing to ever since it was first introduced in Sonar; using WMV, MPEG-4, and AVI files, and have NEVER ONCE had any glitches, black screens, or other anomaly occur. So, yeah... it would seem that it IS system dependent.

I say it's about the codecs not the system. Lets make an experiment. I see black screen on play/pause with the video below. 10 seconds of white screen. Save the video from right click context menu. And insert it to the Cakewalk then make play/pause with the video. If you don't see black screen on play/pause. It means yes, this issue is system dependent.

Edited June 27, 2022 by murat k.