FR: Option to suppress automatic clip splits in Comp mode

[Starship Krupa]

When I record in Cakewalk, it's always in Comp mode, and 95% of the time with looping enabled. Cakewalk has a feature where at the end of recording, it places splits where it thinks you'll want to make edits. I have never found this to be useful for my needs. Rather, it results in a lot of splits in odd places where I don't want them. This is especially true for MIDI performances because Cakewalk truncates the beginning and end of takes at first note on and last note off, then assumes you want a split at those points on all the other clips.

Example:

Sound on Sound mode, on the other hand, leaves the clips alone after you're done, no automatic splits:

My feature request is simply that we be allowed to turn off automatic clip splits when recording in Comp/loop mode. Both for MIDI and audio.

[Xoo]

Yes!  I might actually use comping mode if it didn't split (although it's still a bit clunky IMHO and too easy to click and make mistakes).

[sjoens]

I use Sound on Sound but find it awkward when slip-cropping a take, as it always slip-crops the rest of the takes. To affect only the selected take you hold shift while cropping. The technique should be reversed to use Shift when you want all clips cropped. Makes sense as Shift is used to make multiple selections in most other situations.

[Will.]

10 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

When I record in Cakewalk, it's always in Comp mode, and 95% of the time with looping enabled. Cakewalk has a feature where at the end of recording, it places splits where it thinks you'll want to make edits. I have never found this to be useful for my needs. Rather, it results in a lot of splits in odd places where I don't want them. This is especially true for MIDI performances because Cakewalk truncates the beginning and end of takes at first note on and last note off, then assumes you want a split at those points on all the other clips.

Example:

Sound on Sound mode, on the other hand, leaves the clips alone after you're done, no automatic splits:

My feature request is simply that we be allowed to turn off automatic clip splits when recording in Comp/loop mode. Both for MIDI and audio.

You really need this, huh? ? Pretty sure you've let loose a few bombs out from time to time on this. We had a long previous discussion on this. Also one that you've posted late last year. 

 

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

You really need this, huh? ? Pretty sure you've let loose a few bombs out from time to time on this.

"Need?" All I can say about that is that it makes using Cakewalk more difficult for me and others. How about "want?" ?

What happened this time around was that someone in the know finally told me why Cakewalk does this: it's taking a guess at where you want to make your edits. Previously, I couldn't tell whether it was a bug or a feature that gets in my way. Now I know that it's a feature that I would like to be able to turn off.

I keep bringing it up because that's how things get noticed, and how I can tell whether it's important to other users. If nobody else cares, I drop it.

Try replacing a synth in the latest EA build and watch what happens. Joy!

I like being allowed turn off features that I don't wish to use, look at the change made to the Smart Tool to allow users to switch it  in and out of Speed Comping mode. I used to get in big trouble with the Smart Tool when comping. The ability to turn off the numeric display on the Aim Assist was an early one that helps me greatly every time I work in Track View. Cakewalk's ability to reconfigure to suit individual workflows is one of its greatest strengths.

[Starship Krupa]

14 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

Yes!  I might actually use comping mode if it didn't split (although it's still a bit clunky IMHO and too easy to click and make mistakes).

Would you say that it's gotten better in that respect in recent years? I mean with the Shift modifier and the customizable Smart Tool.

Those two together allowed me to really take control of comping/editing.

[Will.]

9 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

"Need?" All I can say about that is that it makes using Cakewalk more difficult for me and others. How about "want?" ?

What happened this time around was that someone in the know finally told me why Cakewalk does this: it's taking a guess at where you want to make your edits. Previously, I couldn't tell whether it was a bug or a feature that gets in my way. Now I know that it's a feature that I would like to be able to turn off.

I keep bringing it up because that's how things get noticed, and how I can tell whether it's important to other users. If nobody else cares, I drop it.

Try replacing a synth in the latest EA build and watch what happens. Joy!

I like being allowed turn off features that I don't wish to use, look at the change made to the Smart Tool to allow users to switch it  in and out of Speed Comping mode. I used to get in big trouble with the Smart Tool when comping. The ability to turn off the numeric display on the Aim Assist was an early one that helps me greatly every time I work in Track View. Cakewalk's ability to reconfigure to suit individual workflows is one of its greatest strengths.

I hear you loud and clear. Try something quick. What happens if you go in preference>project>record and change Loop Recording to "Store takes in Separate Tracks? And under TAKE BEHAVIOUR "Create new Lane." 

[Xoo]

13 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

Would you say that it's gotten better in that respect in recent years? I mean with the Shift modifier and the customizable Smart Tool.

Those two together allowed me to really take control of comping/editing.

I haven't tried it for ages (I haven't actually had much editing to do recently - my guitar playing is getting better :-)).

Customizable Smart Tool helps - I just leave Comp disabled!

[Starship Krupa]

15 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

I hear you loud and clear. Try something quick. What happens if you go in preference>project>record and change Loop Recording to "Store takes in Separate Tracks? And under TAKE BEHAVIOUR "Create new Lane."

I've never wanted to put my takes into separate tracks, does it not work properly? The first thing I'd want to do would be to drag all the takes into one track! I always have "create new lane" selected, so if you want to know what happens when I set that just look at my screenshots up there. I think I tried turning it off once years ago just to see what would happen and that was trippy.

Figuring out which mode and options would get me the closest to the results I wanted was tough when I first started using Cakewalk because the documentation hadn't been gone over in quite some time, and there was no Reference Guide.

[Starship Krupa]

I'm recording audio for the first time in months after working "in the box" and this is right in my face again.

I'm trying to record a spoken word phrase, so I'm doing take after take, just repeating the words until I get something that I think is right.

Every time I record a clip that's shorter than any previously recorded clip, each of the longer clips gets automatically split at the point where the new clip stops, and I have to enable the Smart Tool's Comp Tool and swipe across everything to "heal" the clips.

I've never made any recording, of an instrument, spoken word, whatever, where these splits would help me. Rather, it's like a bird pooping on my car while I'm washing it.

Just bumping to keep it visible.

[msmcleod]

FYI - I brought this issue up in meetings, and the general consensus was that rather than splitting it, the default option should be to extend the last take to the loop extent.

I did spend some time looking at it, and it wasn't as straightforward as I'd hoped, so I'm not sure when we'll get around to fixing this.

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

FYI - I brought this issue up in meetings, and the general consensus was that rather than splitting it, the default option should be to extend the last take to the loop extent.

Yay!

What I experienced yesterday wasn't to do with Loop mode, though. I was just recording multiple takes of a spoken phrase into the same track, no looping. I guess I should have made that more clear. It happens in Comp mode whether you're looping or not.

I did a take of me repeating the phrase, then stopped and did a longer one, then shorter, then shorter still, then longer again, then shortest.

Every time my new take was shorter than one or more of the previous ones, the previous longer takes were split at its ending point. And then when I'd do the next take it would reset and make a new set of splits (I changed the lane numbering myself).

So the results wound up like this:

[rfssongs]

This issue is one of the reasons I don't do comping because what I end up with is just one big mess.

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, rfssongs said:

This issue is one of the reasons I don't do comping because what I end up with is just one big mess.

It’s not really that hard to clean up, just swipe across everything with the Smart/Comp Tool and it will “heal” the splits.

Make sure you have “create new lanes” selected while recording.

It’s more of a PITA than something that ruins things, but it did take me literally years to figure out what was going on. I’m persistent and dedicated to learning Cakewalk, but I can imagine people trying it out and being dismayed with the results. I was once one.

If it’s a feature that few people make use of and slows down everyone else, it seems like a good candidate for being made optional.

Cakewalk’s comping is pretty powerful, I got much better results after switching off the Smart Tool’s Comp Tool (a great example of making features optional resulting in a simpler workflow). Otherwise it’s kind of in “speed comping” mode, which is fast and powerful, but also a way to mess things up if you haven’t studied up on it. I made some miserable messes with that when I was first learning comping in Cakewalk.

[Base 57]

So, as long as the last take is the longest one there are no splits to heal if recording in Comp Mode. 

And, there are no splits when recording in Sound on Sound mode but previous takes are not muted automatically.

8 hours ago, msmcleod said:

 it wasn't as straightforward as I'd hoped, so I'm not sure when we'll get around to fixing this.

What about having an option to automatically mute previous takes in SOS?

Edited April 4, 2022 by Base 57

[reginaldStjohn]

Isn't that the point of Sound on Sound mode? To have the previous take be audible?

[Starship Krupa]

2 hours ago, Base 57 said:

What about having an option to automatically mute previous takes in SOS?

Well, that would be the same as Comp Mode without the splits, which would be fine with me.

But I agree with @reginaldStjohn that the nature of Sound on Sound mode is that you hear the previous takes.

[msmcleod]

15 hours ago, Base 57 said:

So, as long as the last take is the longest one there are no splits to heal if recording in Comp Mode. 

And, there are no splits when recording in Sound on Sound mode but previous takes are not muted automatically.

What about having an option to automatically mute previous takes in SOS?

You can mute previous takes if Auto-Punch is enabled.  Actually this is what I quite often do to get around the split behaviour in comp mode.

I just set the Auto-Punch in to be where I want to start recording, and the Auto Punch out where I want to stop, or if I don't know, a 100 measures or so after.

This was the old way of doing multiple takes before the comp mode was introduced.

[Base 57]

7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

You can mute previous takes if Auto-Punch is enabled. 

I am actually happy with the way recording currently works. I am only trying to find a way for Erik and others to get the behavior that they wish for also.

If Auto-Punch is enabled in Sound on Sound mode, there are no splits, previous takes are muted (if that option is selected in Preferences), and you can start and stop recording anywhere within the punch region.

So as far as I am concerned this is at least a viable workaround for the OP.