Project "Save As" Question

[Syphus]

This question is a bit technical . . .

The question comes up occasionally, "I started my project without a proper name, but now I have one, how do I change this in the project folder  . . . .

The answer I have seen is:  Do a "SaveAs" with the "save audio with project" box checked off . . .  But I noticed something.

Say I start a project as "Project 1"  and now I want to Change it to "Prairie dogs on the Wing".   I do a "SaveAs" and  now the folder and the cakewalk file are renamed.  As look into the files under the new folder, I notice that the WAV files, in the audio folder,  are named with "Project 1".   Example shown below:

      Project 1, Track 4, Rec (29).wav

Do these files have to remain the same name as when they were originally created?   Can they be renamed?

My first thought is, "How does The DAW know what audio files to use?"   If I change them,  does the DAW not know what tracks they belong to?

Normally I would not care as long as the file still functions (as a newly rename project).   But what if you needed to identify them such as in "cleaning up audio".  Would they still be associated with "changed name"

It has got me curious . . .   Is there an answer?    Please let me know

Thanks,

Syphus

[msmcleod]

What Save As does, is simply save the cwp file to a different filename.  The idea is that you can save different revisions of your project in the same project folder.  It still refers to the original wav files used in the original project, and their original location.

What I think you want to do in this instance is use Save Copy As.  By doing this, a new directory is created with the new project name, e.g:

C:\Cakewalk Projects\Prairie dogs on the Wing\

Assuming you've got "Copy all audio with Project" checked (it is by default), a new Audio sub-directory is created with a copy of only the audio files currently used in the project ( if you don't have this checked, the copied wav files will go in your Global Audio Folder ).

So, assuming you're using the default "Copy all audio with Project" you'll get the following:

C:\Cakewalk Projects\Prairie dogs on the Wing\
    - contains  Prairie dogs on the Wing.cwp
C:\Cakewalk Projects\Prairie dogs on the Wing\Audio\
    - contains new copies all your project audio files

Why do this?  Well, your original project folder will contain wav files for all the discarded takes, any edited files in your undo history etc.  I guess it's useful to have them if you really need them, but they will start to take up disk space. Using Save As gives you a clean project with only the wav files in use.

[Syphus]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

So, assuming you're using the default "Copy all audio with Project" you'll get the following:

C:\Cakewalk Projects\Prairie dogs on the Wing\
    - contains  Prairie dogs on the Wing.cwp
C:\Cakewalk Projects\Prairie dogs on the Wing\Audio\
    - contains new copies all your project audio files

@msmcleodI understand that part of "SaveAs",  What I'm asking specifically is:

The Audio file(s) under the "Audio" sub-folder (directory)  have the original original project "name" associated with them (in this case "Project 1") - "Do those files have to remain named as they were originally so as to be properly be  associated with the tracks in the project"?  Is there no way to change the WAV files names/track association.

I'm assuming that the case is they would have to be as the original . . .  but I want to know for sure . . .

Thanks for your response,

Syphus

[John Vere]

I understand exactly what you’re saying. 
This is it, To find orphaned tracks later on it’s nice if they use the correct project title. 
This is why it’s important to name a project before you record new material. It’s also important to name the track clearly too. 
It often happens when you start with templates. You end up with “ no name” audio files until you save the project.
And naming a track After you record it doesn’t change the files name. 

So this is a good question- How do you safely change the name of audio files to match the new project?  
I’ll have to try this later today, but I’m guessing you might have to delete the audio and drag it to the new project?  
Im pretty sure re naming in Explorer won’t work. 
 

 

[John Vere]

I found a solution.

Before you do anything back the original project up out of harms way. 

First I tried drag and drop from original audio folder to new project, nope, same name.

Then tried re-naming from within Cakewalk, nope, error message. 

Then tried bounce to track but new export dialogue just copies the name and adds bounced to it. No option to name.  

But scratching my head, and not to be defeated, I figured this out. The hardest part is prepairing the original audio for transfer to the new project. 

First prepare the audio in original by bouncing  any audio tracks that are in fragments to create all continuious tracks that start at Zero. 

You can replace the original fragmented tracks by deleting all the clips  and drag the bounced continuious version to the original location to maintain routing and effects etc.  

Perform the "save as" to create a whole new project folder and check copy audio box.  

In Explorer open the original projects audio folder and now re name the files any way you want. This version of the project will now be junked. f you don't want to loose the original project you will need to make a safty copy too. If it was just a Template then no loss. 

Now open the new project and open the old projects audio folder in the browser, 

Delete the audio with wrong name and replace with the new re named versions by dragging them from the browser. 

If you want you can  now perform another save as to get rid of the wrong named files. Delete all the left behind stuff once your dead sure it's all working. 

 

[msmcleod]

The solution is to use "Save Copy As"  - this will prefix all of the copied wav files with the new project name.

"Save As" does not copy the original wave files.  It just references the original ones, and yes, they need to be exactly the same filename as they were before.

 

 

[John Vere]

Nope, just tried that, Files are still the same, and I do beleieve that is incorrect about save as. It does not reference the audio it copies it to the new location. It actually only copies the audio that is relevent to the currant version of the project. We always tell floks to use SAVE AS to clean up projects. But you need to put it in a new project folder.  It possibly references if you save under a new name inside the original folder. 

In the screen shot original project was Watchtower. You'll also see the audio I dragged from a different project ( yellow ) and then the bounced version below as I was testing. This is the new re named ( dogsbreath) I saves as  copy to new location. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by John Vere

[Syphus]

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

The solution is to use "Save Copy As"  - this will prefix all of the copied wav files with the new project name.

"Save As" does not copy the original wave files.  It just references the original ones, and yes, they need to be exactly the same filename as they were before.

 

 

Quote

 

I tried saving both ways and each case the WAV files in the "Audio" folder retained the original names (prefixes)

Also what I saw as a difference was this:

The "SaveAs" version,  the project is now the "Copied" (new name) project.

The "Save Copy As", the current project loaded is still the old one and if you wanted to access the new name, you would have to open that project.

Syphus

Edited January 23, 2022 by Syphus

[John Vere]

I just to make sure I wasn't wrong tested SAVE AS and put it in a completly different location. Audio is copied as you would expect because the box was checked. 

 

From the documentation

 

Copy all audio with project (Project saves only)

When selected, this check box creates a copy of every audio file your project references, regardless of where they are located, and stores them in a folder called Audio Data. The Audio Data folder is created in the folder where you save your project. For example, if you save your project to the following folder:

C:\My Project

Your project’s audio is saved in the following folder:

C:\My Project\Audio Data

Edited January 23, 2022 by John Vere

[Syphus]

I will try out John's version later . . .   Sorry to make such a big deal out of this, but I would think you would want your WAV files prefixed with the project's name.

 

Syphus

[John Vere]

No this is actually a problem I have had when transfering audio between projects.  Say you speed up a version of a song. It's even more important for people who might use loops and short clips. I can see the reasoning behind having it the way it is because the audio clip will aways retain it's original name which might even help sort out which was which in complicated projects that have seen a lot of versions.

This is why SAVE AS is a great tool to sort this out by cleaning out the audio folder of junk no longer referenced. But having that audio named for a version of a song would be an asset if you all of a sudden wanted a track back. Be easy to use search to find it. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by John Vere

[scook]

"Save As" and "Save Copy As" are functionally the same WRT copying a project.

The only difference is, after the save is completed, "Save As" closes the currently open project and loads the new project.

"Save Copy As" leaves the current project open and does not open the new project.

For clip name changes try the following

• Open the project to save 
• Immediately after opening the project use File > Save As with both "copy all audio with project" AND "Create one file per clip" enabled.

 

 

[John Vere]

So I tried Steve's idea and for my issue it was successful.

The Audio folder changed the name of the original which was Watchtower, to Dooods the new name I used with Save as,   "copy all audio with project" AND "Create one file per clip" enabled. It also added more from the tracks name, nice.

But the Clip name still remained the same?   

That's certainly easier than my idea if you can live with clip names being different. For me that's not an issue as I rarely pay attention to all the gibberish that seems prevalent in naming clips. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by John Vere

[sjoens]

Bouncing audio seems to remove the project name leaving only the track name.

In my current project, oddly, there's a few wav's named the old way. ie: FX1t3kken.WAV. Why is that??

And why are there some audio in the Project folder and some in the Global folder for the same project??