Things You Like About CbB

[Tim Smith]

After having accumulated a handful of different DAWS I can compare the things I like and don't like between them.

While my studio experience with these DAWS  is by no means extensive, I feel I have a decent grasp of the differences between them.

What kinds of functions just work better or maybe don't even exist in other DAWS ?

Should we name other DAWS here? I dunno.

I'll begin with a recent experience I had in another DAW.  After only my 1st day using it I realized there was one thing I've come across already that is either not apparent, or doesn't exist. "Replace Synth" either does not exist or it's buried somewhere that makes it very difficult to find. This is an expensive DAW  and I like it, however I was very disappointed in the lack of a simple right click on the track to replace synth. I took this for granted in CbB. In this DAW I had to remove and replace an entire track.

CbB drag features which exist in other DAWS, yet aren't nearly as intuitive for me. The drag audio to a midi track is cool even though I don't use it very often. 

One thing that seems to choke a bunch of DAWS is changing sample rates. CbB  does not seem to cope with that very well either. Some other DAWS will ask you if you want to change the project to match the new sample rate. I have had CbB crash whenever I do anything to my Focusrite Scarlette regarding sample rates.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bapu]

If you don't name the DAW with your perceived 'flaw' how can anyone confirm or deny (with a description how to do it) said flaw?

[Shane_B.]

Oh this is gonna be good. ?

[Shane_B.]

Things I like about CbB. The updates are free, for now. I like how Noel has been set free to fix it and he's done a great job. I still use Session Drummer 3 and Dimension Pro. I get those because I was a paying customer before it went free. I don't know if everyone gets those or not. I still use Zeta once in a while too. There are some excellent string samples in Dim Pro and SD3 uses real samples of drums. I'm sure there are newer better drum samplers out there but I'm so used to it, and the type of music I do doesn't require drums to be a major part of the mix, although I have done songs like that and it sounds great. Again, they are real samples. And if you use the PX64 Percussion VST that's buried in CbB there isn't much you can't do with SD3. I still use the PX64 Percussion VST in Studio One. It's a bit flaky though still. Sometimes it bypasses and doesn't tell you so I use it as an Event FX in S1 to do non-destructive freeze and can keep adding Inserts.

I'm not in to external midi gear at all so the things those complain about being missing in other DAW's does not apply to me. I have a basic midi controller that triggers my synths and drums and I'm A-Ok.

The GUI in CbB feels Windows 3.1'ish. That is my main gripe with it. The way you use your mouse on the timeline to expand or shrink the view is extremely clunky, especially compared to S1. Everything else, it's apples to apples for what I use. Although, Studio One gets a tiny edge on stability. I can honestly count on 1 hand the amount of times Studio One has crashed on me, and I used it with no HDD's at one point all off of thumb drives. That said, in recent times, I can almost say the same thing about CbB. It will still hard crash with a plugin problem but it is extremely rare. Studio One seems to have found a way to keep it from hard crashing and just tell you about it. Same as Reaper. Although, I have to say S1 is becoming spyware and I'm prompted to report a problem now when something happens and I do not like that at all. Melodyne is extremely clunky and will cause problems regularly on every DAW I've ever used it in. It's a great program, but the GUI sucks and it works best on bounced clips with just a few words sung. 

Replacing a synth is super easy in Studio One. You just drag the synth from the Browser over to the Track the current one is on and it asks if you want to replace and you say yes. Boom, done. 

One area where S1 kills CbB is setting up outputs. It's automatic. For example, I still use Session Drummer 3. It has 12 stereo outputs. You drag it in to a Song, open up Instrument view in the Channel window, click on SD3 then click Expand, and a checklist of all available outputs for SD3 are displayed. You check the box next to the output you want enabled and S1 automatically creates an output channel. Takes all of 3 seconds. It takes forever in CbB.

These are just tiny nitpicks though. I really don't have anything bad to say about CbB now. Noel has done a fantastic job getting it stable now that he's been unleashed. I would have no problem switching back to CbB full time if something changed for the worse in S1. I have CbB and S1 on my system and keep both updated and I still use CbB for some midi things. It's a lot easier to export midi tracks in CbB. You just drag them to the desktop. It's it's pulling teeth in S1. And TTS-1 still works in CbB. People can laugh at me, but there are still some great sounding instruments in it. You have to use a DXi wrapper in S1 and S1 says there is a problem loading it after you use it a while. It works for a little bit and you can freeze, but it stops working after a while for me every time.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Shane_B.
Fixed typo.

[msmcleod]

As a user, my #1 reason for using CbB is its support for the Mackie C4, which is a major part of my workflow.

Most other DAW's don't support it, and those that do don't support it properly - i.e. you have to turn the pots several times to go from min to max, whereas within CbB you just turn it quickly for big increments and slowly for small ones.

In fact, this bad implementation on other DAW's was the #1 reason for people not buying the C4, leading to Mackie eventually discontinuing it.

[craigb]

I don't know, but the people who they get in their forum sure are weird! ?

?

[rfssongs]

" The way you use your mouse on the timeline to expand or shrink the view is extremely clunky"

 

Try Ctrl  (left/Right) Arrow instead. Very smooth - very fast.

[Tim Smith]

1 hour ago, Bapu said:

If you don't name the DAW with your perceived 'flaw' how can anyone confirm or deny (with a description how to do it) said flaw?

Well said. The DAW I mentioned in that example was Cubase 11 Pro.It might have the feature I mentioned however it surely is not intuitive to find it if it exists. To me it's a flaw because it should be as easy as it is in CbB a right click on the track>select replace synth>done.

31 minutes ago, Shane_B. said:

Things I like about CbB. The updates are free, for now. I like how Noel has been set free to fix it and he's done a great job. I still use Session Drummer 3 and Dimension Pro. I get those because I was a paying customer before it went free. I don't know if everyone gets those or not. I still use Zeta once in a while too. There are some excellent string samples in Dim Pro and SD3 uses real samples of drums. I'm sure there are newer better drum samplers out there but I'm so used to it, and the type of music I do doesn't require drums to be a major part of the mix, although I have done songs like that and it sounds great. Again, they are real samples. And if you use the PX64 Percussion VST that's buried in CbB there isn't much you can do with SD3. I still use the PX64 Percussion VST in Studio One. It's a bit flaky though still. Sometimes it bypasses and doesn't tell you so I use it as an Event FX in S1 to do non-destructive freeze and can keep adding Inserts.

There are definitely some bennys for anyone who was a paying customer. At one point I think we got Addictive Drums in the package. I recently considered updating a Cakewalk Platinum addition that had an AAS product in it. It would seem I can't upgrade it in the usual way because it was attached to Cakewalk. Since my requirements in drums are not that much, I can make almost anything work for the beats I need. Give me almost any drum sample and I can probably make it pop where it needs to pop. I mean, for something like a kick I could wack a recliner in my living room and get a decent thump to work with. Drum replacer probably helps for a lot of people....so yes, I agree the kits that are in CbB are as good as any and are not over processed. You are probably aware we are in the minority now with millions downloading more recent versions of CbB ?If I didn't have any of that there are plenty of free plug in instruments that would likely fit the bill very well.

Since you are comparing a lot to Studio One I guess there are pros and cons to each. I have Studio One 5 Pro and I honestly thought I would use it more than I have. There are some excellent plugins with that DAW. The plugins in CbB are ok too. I often will not use a built in EQ with  because the filters are not that great on many of them, this is especially true for me on a master. This is just a preference of mine. If I'm simply high passing the low end I guess almost anything will do that. The EQ in SO5 is pretty good, at least as good as the one in Cubase in my opinion. A person could use the Pro Channel in CbB to get the individual tracks shaped up pretty good. There are a lot of things you can do with simple plugins such as sending a copy of a boosted freq in a track to a compressor with a side chain. All of this can be done well in CbB which also has a built in Multi band limiter. It's getting a bit dated but works as good as any. I don't see the plugins in Cakewalk as being any better or worse than say the plugins in Ableton. The ability to open up the EQ to a larger GUI helps as does the presets which can help to get a beginner close to the pocket. I just put three tracks totaling 10 minutes into SO5 for a live stream that needed 10 minutes of music. I used the mastering section of the program. This actually worked against me because I needed all tracks as one track not individual tracks. That part of SO makes individual tracks. So I could have done it in CbB.

50 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

As a user, my #1 reason for using CbB is its support for the Mackie C4, which is a major part of my workflow.

Most other DAW's don't support it, and those that do don't support it properly - i.e. you have to turn the pots several times to go from min to max, whereas within CbB you just turn it quickly for big increments and slowly for small ones.

In fact, this bad implementation on other DAW's was the #1 reason for people not buying the C4, leading to Mackie eventually discontinuing it.

Interesting.

 

 

[Jim Fogle]

@Tim Smith, great topic for a thread.  I'm glad you posted it.

I most appreciate that Cakewalk is free to everyone with a Windows computer.  Along the same thought, that frequent fixes and feature enhancements are available.  I haven't counted the number of fixes applied since 2018 but it has been a lot.

Seamless ARA2 and élastique Pro integration.

I like the way the interface looks.  While both of the default Tungsten and Mercury themes are okay I generally use the Tungsten theme.

I greatly appreciate Workspace.  Once I get my custom Workspace figured out, I'll be a pretty happy camper. 

My major dislike is likely different from most users.  I dislike the smart tool.  I prefer to manually select a tool.  It would be great if the smart tool could be enabled or disabled as a Preference setting.  Then I could manually select to use a tool, become well grounded in its use, move to the next, and so on until I'm comfortable with all of them.  Then I could enable the smart tool.

I believe Cakewalk's major deficiency  is the lack of an integrated, multi-purpose sampler.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Jim Fogle

[rfssongs]

I love cakewalk & have been using it for 30 years or so.

I would however like it if a more robust arpeggiator was included.

One trick I started using recently is to make a subfolder with multiple tracks  sent to various cakewalk arpeggiator settings. I can make changes to the arp's just by dragging the "chord controller" clips around.

Yes this can be automated but I like to see where things are happening  just by glancing at the tracks. This makes it easy to drag parts around & it all collapses to a folder.

Still more options would be nice.

[steve@baselines.com]

I like that they didn't abandon me without a solution.  I had recently (at the time they threw in the towel) purchased the forever free updates version, which is seamless to the way it is now.

I like that the software developers are competent and pay attention to detail.  The changes they have made all seem to make sense.

I like that the documentation is now so much easier to find things in.

I really like the improvements in tempo map (but I think the last update messed with the tempo line resizing - it's not as easy to zoom now) and in combining sections of a track without clicks, pops or other noises (without having to spend an hour to find the right spots)

I like that the product has been pretty much crash free for me for a long time.

The one thing I don't like is that sometimes when doing things like typing in a track name, I haven't made it so it was editable, and it leads to a lot of unintended keystroke settings that do not get tracked in the undo stack.  That's caused by me though, so can't really blame the software for that.

I haven't had to use any of the transient stuff, so I don't know how much that has improved...it wasn't good for a long time in my opinion.  The fact that I don't have to use it is because of the improvements made elsewhere.

 

 

[paulo]

48 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

I believe Cakewalk's major deficiency  is the lack of an integrated, multi-purpose sampler.

I've long thought that the lack of plug and play compatibility that other DAWs seem to have with the various controllers available is the thing that must hurt them most in trying to attract new users and perversely maybe the fact that it's free.  There's so much to learn when starting out that it's not difficult to imagine someone going for a paid alternative because the manufacturer of the controller they have their eye one at least kind of endorses it, if not actually giving you the junior version to get you started. It's easy enough to pick up some kind of sampler elsewhere, but a midi controller with a CW mode ? No chance it seems.

Free is great on the one hand, but on the other to the uninitiated it might say.....not very good. No such thing as a free lunch, right? Plus when we get something for nothing it's easier to give up on it at the first hurdle. Then again when it was a paid product clearly not enough people bought it to make it viable and that's why we are where we are. I'm ok with that. As long as it continues to work it does all that I need it to and I don't feel the need to consider looking elsewhere.

 

[Bapu]

I like that it's still there when I need it for collaborations. By that I mean I typically make CbB tracking shell with tempo & markers delivered with stem exports for the collaborator.

For my Studio One collaborators I just send the entire project (typically sans 3rd party FXs).

[Tim Smith]

4 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

I most appreciate that Cakewalk is free to everyone with a Windows computer.  Along the same thought, that frequent fixes and feature enhancements are available.  I haven't counted the number of fixes applied since 2018 but it has been a lot.

Yes I remember a few doom and gloom comments others had about CbB a year ago on another forum. None of it has come to pass. Instead what we have are people who tried it and rather like using it instead of brand X.  I don't think this DAW has really gathered a full head of steam yet. I think within a few more years it will be bigger yet.

The fixes, yes- As good or better than any paid DAW. ? The CbB team are constantly listening to users and refining the software.

4 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

Seamless ARA2 and élastique Pro integration.

I'm glad this works well for those who use it. 

4 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

I greatly appreciate Workspace.  Once I get my custom Workspace figured out, I'll be a pretty happy camper. 

 I think templates are the way to go if you work in a similar way all time. I work every which way lol.

4 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

My major dislike is likely different from most users.  I dislike the smart tool.  I prefer to manually select a tool.  It would be great if the smart tool could be enabled or disabled as a Preference setting.  Then I could manually select to use a tool, become well grounded in its use, move to the next, and so on until I'm comfortable with all of them.  Then I could enable the smart tool.

I believe Cakewalk's major deficiency  is the lack of an integrated, multi-purpose sampler.

Maybe they will change it. The main thing lately haunting me in CbB is I have too many odd plugins, some attached to video programs and other DAWS that CbB is scanning and it parks on them as a problem. I need to thin my scan folders back down because honestly I don't use half of those plugins. That's a problem I made for myself.

4 hours ago, rfssongs said:

I would however like it if a more robust arpeggiator was included.

One trick I started using recently is to make a subfolder with multiple tracks  sent to various cakewalk arpeggiator settings. I can make changes to the arp's just by dragging the "chord controller" clips around.

 The solution you found is great. Lots of great synths out there that have the option built in though. If you make a template it should save those synth settings. Maybe someone else can help you here on that since it isn't my normal cuppa to make arpeggios. I suspect there may be more under the hood. On rare occasions when I do that I stack a few synths up and lock all of their arpeggiators. That actually puts me on overload because there are so many choices.

4 hours ago, steve@baselines.com said:

I like that they didn't abandon me without a solution.  I had recently (at the time they threw in the towel) purchased the forever free updates version, which is seamless to the way it is now

Me too. Same here Steve. We are datin' ourselves. The Cakewalk old timers

 

4 hours ago, steve@baselines.com said:

I like that the software developers are competent and pay attention to detail.  The changes they have made all seem to make sense.

? You devs hear that? Take a large kudo you all deserve. Thanks Steve, Lots of good  points. One thing that has come back to bite me multiple times are not saving my projects enough. I have lost lots of material that way. I think auto save defaults at something like every 15 minutes if I'm not mistaken. I prefer every 5 minutes because you just never know with any DAW if it's going to cough that one time and I loose all of my hard work. CTRL+S should be a habit with me.

4 hours ago, paulo said:

I've long thought that the lack of plug and play compatibility that other DAWs seem to have with the various controllers available is the thing that must hurt them most in trying to attract new users and perversely maybe the fact that it's free.  There's so much to learn when starting out that it's not difficult to imagine someone going for a paid alternative because the manufacturer of the controller they have their eye one at least kind of endorses it, if not actually giving you the junior version to get you started. It's easy enough to pick up some kind of sampler elsewhere, but a midi controller with a CW mode ? No chance it seems.

True that. As a keyboardist mainly the keys take up most of my desk real estate. In my next studio I hope to have a DAW controller handy. For me though those keystrokes are almost as efficient. I agree the controller matching section could  use  improvement. The old videos for connecting with ACT always loose me. Let's just say some people are not cut out to make instructional videos. There have probably been better ones made since. I had hoped maybe there is a future marriage between Bandlab hardware and CbB. No way to know but it seems likely to me as a way for them to sell hardware.

4 hours ago, paulo said:

Free is great on the one hand, but on the other to the uninitiated it might say.....not very good. No such thing as a free lunch, right? Plus when we get something for nothing it's easier to give up on it at the first hurdle. Then again when it was a paid product clearly not enough people bought it to make it viable and that's why we are where we are. I'm ok with that. As long as it continues to work it does all that I need it to and I don't feel the need to consider looking elsewhere.

 

And I think this has been probably the second largest hurdle aside from people continually throwing up the old "it always crashes" that came about from the days of Win 8 and vista. Someone on every board is going to pop out of thr woodwork and say, " I tried Cakewalk back in 2011 and it did nothing but crash on me. They might not actually admit that it has been that long. Now all of these people bought 3 thousand dollar macs with 8gb of ram in them and under powered chips. 

The free thing is something I'm prepared to get over as someone who once pain $$ for this DAW. Nothing is really free but we aren't paying for it any longer. Some people would insist they need to pay for it to be good. Maybe we can start a little side business to make them feel better?

3 hours ago, Bapu said:

I like that it's still there when I need it for collaborations. By that I mean I typically make CbB tracking shell with tempo & markers delivered with stem exports for the collaborator.

Not much excuse there. You have CbB?  No? Why not? Are you a weiner head monkey?

[Bapu]

44 minutes ago, Tim Smith said:

Not much excuse there. You have CbB?  No? Why not? Are you a weiner head monkey?

It's not about making 'excuses', it's about how Studio One's workflow now suits me better than CbB.

Using CbB is like having a large birthday gathering for a grandchild and having my ex there. It's ok in small doses but not as an everyday thing.

[craigb]

I'm still using Notepad.  30 years and I'm still adding 1's and 0's for my first song...

[Tim Smith]

14 hours ago, Bapu said:

It's not about making 'excuses', it's about how Studio One's workflow now suits me better than CbB.

Using CbB is like having a large birthday gathering for a grandchild and having my ex there. It's ok in small doses but not as an everyday thing.

I think my post came across wrong. I was saying that there's no excuse for anyone not to have CbB if they want it.

Studio One surely acquired the most Cakewalk customers when everyone was thinking Cakewalk was going the way of the do do bird. When that group crossed over they didn't want to come back and take another chance with Cakewalk. Studio one stuck with them to this day, while some still come back to the CbB forum(like you).

In addition to Cakewalk, Studio One probably captures one of the very best balances for a musician who wants to record a live instrument or band and also get their hands into midi. Add the hardware factor in there and we have a winner. I don't blame anyone for making that jump. At the time no one knew Cakewalk would be revived by Bandlab. To get any of those guys to come back is a tall order.

Still, many here are proof that multiple DAWS can be a part of certain workflows. 

If I had a bunch of people who were all using a different DAWs and we were working remotely, CbB would be an obvious choice because anyone who uses a PC can get it for free and could send their files to be opened on the other end.  Any remote collaboration can be confusing. If you dedicate one mixing engineer and ONE copy of the mix with others sending tracks, they still need to hear a reasonable mix at their end to track. Mp3 adds a tag that lengthens the track, so wav is best...or midi to be finished somewhere else.

There's the Bandlab app which can share across the distance. I haven't used it much. Passing a larger more complex CbB mix around to various people to add their tracks is another option.If everyone has the same copy and the same plugs, I guess that makes sense. Could get very confusing very quickly though. Most of my collabs have been small. The emails were what got complicated, trying to understand each other because usually there is always critique and no two people always see it the same. There should be an agreement that ONE person makes those final calls IMO.

[steve@baselines.com]

14 hours ago, craigb said:

I'm still using Notepad.  30 years and I'm still adding 1's and 0's for my first song...

You should use Wordpad instead.  With that you can add eighth notes and use hexadecimal. That will cut your release time down to years instead of decades ?

[craigb]

2 minutes ago, steve@baselines.com said:

You should use Wordpad instead.  With that you can add eighth notes and use hexadecimal. That will cut your release time down to years instead of decades ?

But it has Lemmy-hemi-demi-semi-quavers in it!!! ?

[Tim Smith]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:12 PM, craigb said:

I'm still using Notepad.  30 years and I'm still adding 1's and 0's for my first song...

Ok then I guess that takes you out of the "what I like about CbB" then?