Piano Roll Posting Multiple Notes To Same Location

[Tim Smith]

I noticed this rather accidentally when doing some small edits in the PR. I'll delete a note and there's another note under it in the same location. There can be up to three or four notes sitting at the same location. I have not noticed  playback issues.

Can you tell me why this is happening?

[RBH]

This can happen when you might be using the ctrl key to do multiple note selections - but if the mouse moves sideways just a bit - cakewalk thinks you're doing a copy routine. - Also is it possible that you have done some clip copy and paste - or track copy and paste that dumps itself in the the same time. I've caught myself making these moves before - but I don't ever use snap to grid or quantizing - so often I see the minor time offsets, where snap to grid operations will paste it exactly on the same time stamp.

 

One way to see if this has occurred before trying to delete is to have a quick look at the event list to see if there are multiple entries at the same time stamp. it's not a bug - but it can be very sensitive to selections and mouse movements.

Edited December 9, 2021 by RBH

[scook]

UNDUPE,CAL may clean up the track.

I usually run this type of CAL script on a duplicate track, just in case.

[John Vere]

One other way I’ve seen this happen is when you get a Midi Loop Back. You play one note on your controller and it gets recorded but the midi goes back out and back in. This can happen if you have a midi output port enabled or certain VST instruments have output and the track is set to input none which picks up everything   
It’s one reason I make sure and select my controller as the input and I always disable all midi outputs in preferences. Unless I’m using a hardware synth of course. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by John Vere

[scook]

13 hours ago, John Vere said:

the track is set to input none which picks up everything

When the track is set to None, no MIDI input is accepted.

The trouble starts when the track gets Input Echo enabled. It is not possible to input echo None so the DAW switches to an Omni setting.

As of 2021.01, when switching inputs to satisfy Input Echo enable, if the project has any plug-in generating MIDI data, the track should select All External Inputs. This setting ignores MIDI data from plug-ins. For more info see the Option to only use external MIDI inputs section in http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=NewFeatures.029.html

It is still possible to create a MIDI feedback loop, manually set track input to All Inputs > MIDI Omni and double up notes with a bad local control setting in a controller.

MIDI feedback is pretty hard to ignore like audio feedback it quickly gets out of control.

[John Vere]

Ok. Your right I thought it said none but it says Omni now didn’t notice this changed. But in that setting seems everything can be input. I just tried it and my controller and the virtual keyboard both work.
So I assume a loop back from a synth set with midi output would as well As you say they fixed this. So no longer true. 
I used to get double notes from the old system with my Akai  controller. Funny it was only ever 2 notes. You would think it would be infinite if it was looping. I found disabling all midi outputs solved the issue. 
At that time I was unaware of the the fact that each instrument has a output option. 

[scook]

I lobbied Noel pretty hard about this. It was a problem for everyone but really confounded new users because Always Echo Current MIDI Track and Enable MIDI Output (for soft synths) are the default.

 

Some plug-ins send MIDI data some do not.

By default, soft synths that can send MIDI data have the option enabled, FXs do not.

The default for synths may be changed using the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog although, IIRC, the setting was broken for some time, if the dialog was hidden Enable MIDI Output was always set on.

 

I still prefer to disable Always Echo Current MIDI Track and set input echo manually. An old habit that is errs to safety.

I use the default Enable MIDI Output behavior being mindful of what the setting does.

[Tim Smith]

From what I read I might possibly have MIDI loop back due to sending midi from both my controller usb AND a hardware midi out into my interface. I must somehow be getting both of those at the same time.

The really odd thing for me is I didn't notice any playback irregularities. I only noticed this when I was editing data in the PR.

[John Vere]

Thanks once again @scook I need to have a clear understanding of all this as I produce the tutorials. There’s already way to many out there that have miss information. 
I first try the documentation but as you know you need the precise keywords to find the info your after  So then I just try dozens of scenarios and try and draw my own conclusions. 

@Tim Smith
Yes this is why it is always best practices to choose the midi input device you are using as the input to the track you are recording. 
As said otherwise the default input setting might use both your USB input and the Midi connection from you interface. 
Then to compound the issue you might have midi data being sent from a 3rd source , the soft synth output. 

This is why I like to use the Add Track to insert a synth. It lets  me choose the input. And it remains set until you close the project. So this saves time as well. 
I also keep only my Controller checked in preferences/ midi/devices/ inputs. All other inputs and all outputs are disabled. I only will enable them on the rare occasions I need them. 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by John Vere