Moving projects to external storage

[Gary Shore]

Greetings to everyone over here and as always much thanks to everyone who's taken the time to school me in all the different aspects of things I've asked about from time to time....

Posting this because up till now I've just been using my C-drive folder for my projects but,since I've been fairly active ,I'm starting to see my overall  222GB SSD storage space impacted,given that I've moved into the world of installing plugins and looking into setting up  some different VSTi as well....

Just started investigating what's involved in successfully transferring a given project and,while browsing various related threads using search over here has helped me get an initial sense of things,this has been in the context of having to weed out a lot of other stuff related to my main area of focus,so I figured I'd simplify things by posting this vs.continuing to try to figure out which exact search term would get me to threads/posts which would be what I was looking for...

Having studied the "Audio file management" section of the Reference Guide(pg.1155),I'm now becoming aware of the factors involved re-cwp.,bundle files,audio data,etcetc...been checking this out w/the focus being on making sure that all the needed data to get the project up and running in the DAW is completely transferred from the C-drive locations (and then back? vs. Cakewalk being able to open a project from the external storage??)but TBCH would really appreciate being able to access either online info or threads here that would break everything down understandably so I'll know exactly what I'm doing and all the things I need to be aware of here....

Have been checking out some excellent online resources about the overall process but none are Cakewalk-specific re-questions I have like-

How does having third-party plug-ins/VSTi's involved in a given project along w/default Cakewalk ones affect things here?

How do I make sure Melodyne data used to set up specific tracks is part of the overall seamless transition process so that a project will open again intact in the DAW once it's been moved?

I'd greatly appreciate any info/tips/advice/suggestions/links as,while I'm still only using less than about 30% of my overall storage capacity,I'm anticipating this changing fairly soon,especially given the GB some of the VSTi's I'm planning to start using have,added to the large number of new projects I'm anticipating starting to work on in the DAW itself,so it would be great to  get a handle on all this stuff now...

Update Mon.AM-Since posting this thread on Fri.I've been describing the different subfolders within the Project Folder in some of the posts I've made over the weekend but realized I have a screenshot app installed so here's exactly what I've been referring to-

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[Gary Shore]

John/Will-

Appreciate you guys posting!!

John-

If you have time to do this man it would be greatly appreciated,sure it would clear up a lot of the current "murkiness";for ex.,after reading your post I'm now thinking that what Scook was referring to is a desktop set-up which has both a C-drive as well as a D-drive vs.my semi-literate computer knowledge understanding of this.....

Along those lines,let me clarify that I'm working w/a laptop w/one C-drive....so I'm thinking what you're referring to Will would be N/A here,thus my focus on the eternal storage option.....

[Gary Shore]

Treesha-

Much thanks for clarifying things...again finding out about your(IMHO excellent)approach to back-ups/storage is great....reviewed my Windows reference and found out where the info is about creating new folders as TBCH have yet to do this....

BTW appreciate your encouraging comments!!-

50 minutes ago, treesha said:

You are working hard to understand things and i hope you are! 

Just getting a chance to go over this stuff with all the knowledgeable people here like yourself is a real game-changer in terms of my becoming familiar w/things;as you might have noticed,also reviewed the Reference Guide section and posted some stuff about things(this is the post above a little ways back beginning w/-

 

7 hours ago, Gary Shore said:

I was just reviewing the Reference Guide section I mentioned(pg.1155>Audio file management)and found info about what I posted above yesterday re-John's focus on this-(#5 below w/****)

It would be great if you might have a chance to take a look at it as there are some things I was asking about in it that I'd welcome your input on as your time permits....

Edited August 29, 2021 by Gary Shore

[treesha]

Im looking at the downloaded cake ref guide i have dated 5/21 and on pg 1155  is keyboard shortcuts. It was posted in the forum as available if you don’t have it. I think its the latest but not sure? 

[Will.]

59 minutes ago, Gary Shore said:

Along those lines,let me clarify that I'm working w/a laptop w/one C-drive....so I'm thinking what you're referring to Will would be N/A here,thus my focus on the eternal storage option.....

If your hardrive is split you can do this same | or | if you have an external drive that will work too for your projects and samples and the rest I mentioned above. 

The goal here is to only keep your windows drive available for installations not for samples and projects savings. 

Example: if you have a 500GB you can split it in two partitions for a  Cdrive(only your installations and a Ddrive (sample and so on.) So whatever you store on you Ddrive partition wont affect your Cdrive (Main partition.) This means one hardrive turned into two. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Gary Shore]

Treesha-

Appreciate the heads up re-new Reference Guide version..checked it out and the section I'm referring to is now on pg.1301...

Along w/your continued input generally,especially  interested in your take on what I'm asking about in the reply I mentioned re-MB size of the files listed...

Will-

Thanks for the continued info man-wasn't aware of the option to split up the hard drive,however again my focus is on the best method to use to transfer Project files from their current existing C-drive Cakewalk Project files folder location to external storage....

Edited August 29, 2021 by Gary Shore

[treesha]

Hi Gary, I assume you want feedback about this list?

-4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.5 mb

-4-5-1.cwp.~2021-06-07-17-05-24-830(white folder)

13.4 mb

-Auto-save Copy of 4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.4 mb

Would the 1st 2 be the same in terms of MB and the third be added,i.e.would the total size be 26.8 MB or 49.3?Trying to get a sense of what's involved re-the orange Cakewalk logo folder along w/the white folder...up till now,just been focusing on making sure when deleting duplicate saved versions of a project to make sure I'm saving the most recent versions of these three without a real understanding of what each represents....in the context of focusing in on various aspects of individual tracks/overall mix,haven't gotten into these technical "data itself" aspects of using the DAW yet so any explanation/clarification here is greatly appreciated....

i just looked inside the project folder of a song I just finished.  It contains an audio folder, the orange logo folder, and the autosave folder. By right clicking on each and looking at properties.....the audio folder says it is 4.64 GB (i sang a lot !) and then I have the orange logo folder and the autosave folder both at 1.31 MB. Then checking the size of the entire project folder it says it is 4.64 GB. So I dont know the answer to your question about your project file. I assume the total of everything included is the total of the auto save, the save and the audio and sometimes you get a melodyne folder in there too. I think the majority of the size of a song project folder would be whats in the audio folder like mine, which your example doesn't have. My projects can get big due to the audio I know that. 

As for the reference guide pages, is there something specific you want info about? I do know from reading the forum for years and also personally being advised, it is best not to store files in the form of .bun. Bundle files are said to be less reliable than .cwp files, sometimes people post they cant get one to open. Other than that I really don't have any comments on the reference guide pages. Thats all for now

 

 

[Robert McClellan]

I actually just talked about folder allocation during a consultation call last week!

The general rule of thumb is to have all of your larger files (sample libraries, old projects, etc.) on a separate drive from the main drive of your PC. The main drive should be free’d up to handle the audio program, plugins, and current projects.

BTW - Cakewalk has a list of folder allocations in the Preferences Menu. 
 

That said, if your PC has to search on a separate drive every time you’re using a plugin and then read from that drive in real time to use it, now it’s doing twice the work. Most plugins are relatively small in file size anyway.

The main thing is to not overthink your options and never move plugins around to different folders unless you’re doing a full/fresh install and you’ve backed everything up. 
 

The greatest step you can take to improve your PC’s speed and stability is to switch to an SSD (solid state drive) versus an HDD (hard disk drive). Not only is it a major speed boost but it’s also a more sustainable way of data storage that doesn’t rely on moving parts.

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Gary Shore]

Hey Robert!!

Didn't expect to see you over here so soon man!!Much thanks..

Appreciate the heads up -

20 minutes ago, Robert McClellan said:

BTW - Cakewalk has a list of folder allocations in the Preferences Menu. 

Wasn't aware of this...

Currently working w/222GB SSD so this aspect of things is all good....

Really happy to see you've taken the time to post here-now I'm certain that,along w/the info/suggestions/advice I've already been getting,having the benefit of your expertise in these matters will mean I'll soon know exactly the right way to go about things....

Was also glad to see you're following this thread ..

Wonder if you might have time to go through all the posts,both mine as well as those from all the other great folks over here who've posted,and then let me know what you think about the stuff I've asked about;have some specific questions about things your input on would be great man....

Just to clarify things,my focus is on figuring out the best way to move the Project files currently in my C-drive folder to external storage,so I can free up space for new projects,plugins,VSTi's etc....

Much thanks again man..great to see you over here right away....

[Robert McClellan]

1 hour ago, Gary Shore said:

Just to clarify things,my focus is on figuring out the best way to move the Project files currently in my C-drive folder to external storage,so I can free up space for new projects,plugins,VSTi's etc....

A good rule of thumb is to backup to at least two other places (3 total). The easiest way to do this is to follow the path that your projects are currently being saved in and then open both windows at once, then simply selecting the files you’d like to backup and dragging them into the open window of your new SSD. This will create a copy by default. 

Most DAW’s nowadays allow you to create a backup of your project without continually needing to copy and paste files and folders. Some also automatically remove any unused audio in the project such as recorded audio that has been deleted, which helps minimize the file size. While there’s no hard and fast rule as to how often you should back up your project files, the more frequent, the better, especially when you’re near completion.

Cakewalk has an awesome way to do this! (Of course, because it’s the best DAW out there) It has the option to save things as .BUN files or Bundles. This saves all of your audio and session information in one convenient file and allows you to open your project on any PC using Cakewalk exactly where you saved it. (If you freeze the tracks it will even retain the same plugin moves and VSTi information on a PC that doesn’t have them installed)

Another thought on this, most plugin companies offer installers. These provide an easy way to keep things up to date as well as reinstall plugins when doing a fresh install. Personally, with iLok accounts and online installers, I don’t even bother backing up VST’s anymore. I do however keep a list in the notes app of the products I own and their respective websites along with the most current sign in information for that site.

[John Vere]

 

[Gary Shore]

John-

Really appreciate you making the tutorial;just checked it out and definitely have a much more complete understanding of your approach as described now....

Here's what I'm wondering-supposing that I want to just move a given Project from the C drive-Cakewalk Projects folder to external storage instead of the complete Cakewalk Projects main folder w/all the individual Projects,i.e- 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[Gary Shore]

-would I just copy the Main Project folder itself-

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[Gary Shore]

-instead of getting involved in copying each of the subfolders within the Project folder?Then will I be able to open the main Project folder from the external storage or have Cakewalk do this automatically as if it was going to the usual C drive Cakewalk Projets location,or does this require some further action using Preferences?...i.e.I'm understanding Cakewalk recognizes/opens a cwp.right away from Teesha's post the ther day descibing her processes,what about the main Project Folder itself?Does this work along the lines of a .bun file as Robert and others have described?

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[Gary Shore]

Robert-

Thanks for the continued info man...

Here's a few of the things you mentioned I'd appreciate clarification about-

16 hours ago, Robert McClellan said:

The easiest way to do this is to follow the path that your projects are currently being saved in and then open both windows at once, then simply selecting the files you’d like to backup and dragging them into the open window

 

With this second one,does it follow that using the same PC,just focusing on moving the Project Folder for a given project from it's default C drive Cakewalk Project Files location to external storage,the freezing tracks process won't be needed and things will happen automatically once the Project is reopened in the DAW,i.e.everything will be the same as far as "plugin moves and VSTi information"?

16 hours ago, Robert McClellan said:

(If you freeze the tracks it will even retain the same plugin moves and VSTi information on a PC that doesn’t have them installed)

 

[scook]

23 minutes ago, Gary Shore said:

-would I just copy the Main Project folder itself-

Yes, that contains the project and all of its associated files.

It also contains extra stuff like unused audio clips, auto-copy and versions of the project file.

If you want a "clean" copy of the project that contains only the audio clips referenced in the project and the current project file, perform a Save As with "Copy all audio with project" checked. This is essential what bundling does except it adds an extra step of concatenating project file and all the audio into a single file. One thing a bundling cannot do is store audiosnap information. Copying and Save As a regular project do not have this limitation.

 

11 minutes ago, Gary Shore said:

-instead of getting involved in copying each of the subfolders within the Project folder?Then will I be able to open the main Project folder from the external storage or have Cakewalk do this automatically as if it was going to the usual C drive Cakewalk Projets location,or does this require some further action using Preferences?

As a rule you are better off running projects on internal drives but you can run projects that are copied or created with "Save As" off the external drive. Keep in mind there is a performance penalty using USB connected drives which may limit the size of projects. Bundles must be unpacked before running.

[Gary Shore]

Scook-

Was glad to see the notification that you just replied here to what I'm asking about....and clarified exactly the stuff I needed to understand...

Based on-

14 minutes ago, scook said:

As a rule you are better off running projects on internal drives but you can run projects that are copied or created with "Save As" off the external drive. Keep in mind there is a performance penalty using USB connected drives which may limit the size of projects.

-would you suggest the approach of keeping the C drive Cakewalk Projects folder in it's current location and just moving individual projects themselves to the external storage then back to the main Cakewalk Projects folder itself to work on?

IOW the C drive Cakewalk Projects folder would be functioning as a kind of default "container" Cakewalk knows to find a project in and can be used seamlessly to do things vs.trying to open the Project from external storage?

I like the idea of this process re-

14 minutes ago, scook said:

Yes, that contains the project and all of its associated files.

It also contains extra stuff like unused audio clips, auto-copy and versions of the project file.

as,being new to using various third-party plugins/VSTi's etcetc I'd prefer to keep things in as intact a form as possible so Cakewalk will re-open a saved Project in the same state as it was in when it was saved,with all the plugins/settings parameters etc as is vs.getting involved in any computer OS-specific processes that might inadvertently affect this kind of stuff.....

Again scook man really appreciate your continued feedback over here as,although on Fri.when first posted the thread I was more or less "in the dark"about this stuff,now thanks to you,Treesha,John,Robert,and Will I'm starting to have a much better sense of things....

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[scook]

1 minute ago, Gary Shore said:

-would you suggest the approach of keeping the C drive Cakewalk Projects folder in it's current location and just moving individual projects themselves to the external storage then back to the main Cakewalk Projects folder itself to work on?

IOW the C drive Cakewalk Projects folder would be functioning as a kind of default "container" Cakewalk knows to find a project in and can be used seamlessly to do things vs.trying to open the Project from external storage?

Working on the C drive and backing up projects to the external using copy or "Save As"  is likely the best solution.

If your projects do not contain a lot of audio, the may run fine of the external drive though. 

This may be something you will want to experiment with.

Regarding this...

5 minutes ago, Gary Shore said:

as being new to using various third-party plugins/VSTi's etcetc I'd prefer to keep things in as intact a form as possible so Cakewalk will re-open a saved Project in the same state as it was in when it was saved,with all the plugins/settings parameters etc as is vs.getting involved in any computer OS-specific processes that might inadvertently affect this kind of stuff.....

plug-ins are not stored in the project. Projects store information about which plug-ins are used and their configuration (think plug-in preset). When a project is opened, the DAW reads the plug-in information from project and sends the setup information to the plug-ins. If, at some later date, a plug-in is not available to the DAW, the project will throw a "missing plug-in" warning and a placeholding is put in the project to retain the missing plug-ins data. 

[Gary Shore]

13 minutes ago, scook said:

Working on the C drive and backing up projects to the external using copy or "Save As"  is likely the best solution.

I'm thinking you're seconding my idea of moving the Project folder from the C drive to external storage to free up my laptop storage and then back as needed....I'm less focused on the "back-up" aspects of things here and more on the idea of moving it out of the C drive sucessfully,although,along the lines of Treesha's approach to having backups,I'm planning on making a copy of the Project folder in the external storage and leaving it there each time I move the original back to the C drive Cakewalk Projects folder to start working on it again,then repeating this process so in addition to the default Auto-Save copy I'll also have a complete copy of the Project file as a back-up in external storage,and repeating this process each time I finish work on the Project,i.e.deleting the previous copy in the external storage and replacing it w/a copy of the current version of the Project....

Also much thanks for the info about how things work in terms of plugins/storage...

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[John Vere]

I was working on over 200 songs that are my Backing tracks and they were just midi. I used One Drive with out issues. It was brilliant. Those backing tracks saw a lot of changes and with One Drive they were globally kept updated in 3 locations. The 2 Desktop computers as well as the cloud storage. To bad this system is not exactly right for audio. I would have to purchase more storage to do this..  But because systems like One Drive and Drop Box can keep a copy stored Locally you're actually not really working on the cloud, your working locally. So keep that in mind as well. It wouldn't help you get stuff out of the laptop unless you set it to not store locally. 

I have also worked plenty of times using an External drive for full projects with out issue. But That drive is SSD and I use USB 3 ports. 

And yes there's no difference between copying a project folder or the whole Cakewalk folder. 

It sounds to me like what you should do is back up your Cakewalk Project folder to not one, but 2 external drives. Date those folders . You can also purchase a bunch of thumb drives dirt cheap. What ever,  but you defiantly want it back up more than once to do the following. 

Or you could also back them up to a cloud storage system as well. 

Once everything is safely backed up and you have tested the files to make dead sure they are good to go,  then delete everything in the C drive Cakewalk folder that your are not working on at the moment. 

And as time moves on back those up to the external drives with new dated folders. 

This is sort of how I manage my Laptop. And if I want to work on a song this is when I might just use the external drive. But it does make more sense to copy it back to the Laptop. 

 

[Robert McClellan]

Great answers given as well as some clarification on my answers from @scook! This is the kind of support that this group has always been known for! Love it!