Instrument Outputs.

[Will.]

I just made an insert of a drum instrument (forgetting the rules) and it inserted +100 tracks. ? 

Question: Shouldn't the "INSTRUMENT TRACK PER OUTPUT" follow the rule of insert . . . when selecting Mono? By only changing the interleave? 

Right now: If you change the outputs to MONO it multiplies the inserts by the number of tracks you want to it. This is not suppose to be happening.

It is not suppose to choose the number of track for you. The user is suppose to choose that him/herself - like how it works with choosing "MAIN OUTPUTS." 

If I only want 4 mono tracks out of 1 insert, it should only insert 4 - not multiplying the outputs by 4 | or | by the number of outputs the instrument plugin has. Irrespective if its a Mono or Stereo insert. 

Choosing Mono outputs should only give a Mono insert, basically just forcing the interleave to mono and starting with insert default insert at 1. 

It shouldn't even apply to "Split Instrument Track." 

[Glenn Stanton]

so, if you have 16 outputs on the instrument and you select instrument track per output, you don't want 16 you want 1? but if you want 4 you would go to the # control and enter 4? you could also go to the # control and type 1. when i use this, i check that box because i want all the outputs, i'll adjust later based on the need for all 16 or 12 or what have you.

[Will.]

33 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

so, if you have 16 outputs on the instrument and you select instrument track per output, you don't want 16 you want 1? but if you want 4 you would go to the # control and enter 4? 

Yes and No. Cakewalk shouldn't choose the output NUMBER OF TRACKS for us. 

What its doing right now: It multiply the NUMBER OF TRACKS on the output within it itself - 16×16 and adds in 256 tracks. Which I dont get. 

It shouldn't do this and the default tracks should always be "1." When selecting Mono/Stereo outs. When selecting 1 track of Mono outputs per instrument it should force the stereo channel to mono - basically just switching the interleave of the insert to mono. 

To be clear: 

Something I have requested a few times: I don't use the browser to insert effects or instruments. I dont like it, nor do I have inspector open. I only use it for samples in a floating window. 

So having the option to insert a "Mono instrument channel plugin" with the interleave already in Mono from the Menu above would be great. This goes hand-in-hand with What is Question in the OP. 

I know it sounds like a request. I first wana put this out as a Q&A to see if im the only one Questioning this law of insert.  

Edited July 12, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Glenn Stanton]

hmmm. if i add the powerkit with either the instrument per output mono or the all synth outputs mono, i'm only seeing "1" as the number choice, but "max available is checked.

and either way i'm only getting the maximum number of tracks.

maybe this only happens when you do an add track versus insert soft synth?

and it generates the 16 instrument tracks, same as the insert soft synth dialog. i'm definitely not seeing 256 tracks being generated ?

[Will.]

13 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

hmmm. if i add the powerkit with either the instrument per output mono or the all synth outputs mono, i'm only seeing "1" as the number choice, but "max available is checked.

and either way i'm only getting the maximum number of tracks.

maybe this only happens when you do an add track versus insert soft synth?

and it generates the 16 instrument tracks, same as the insert soft synth dialog. i'm definitely not seeing 256 tracks being generated ?

Split it!!!  And if this was about the browser insert I wouldve made the Topic about the brower Insert. No where in my images attached is a browser correct? So why you bring that into this? Focus on the insert spoken of. 

Split the instrument outputs Glen. Then you will get that 272 I believe it will give you - and I know I've said 256 when the image shows the instrument Outputs. 

The point is: It shouldnt choose these amount automatically. The user is suppose to choose him/herself - as mentioned in the OP. Also when choosing Mono it should only give 1 insert of Mono or the required amount of insert made by the user. The default number of tracks should be 1 upon selecting | and | not 16! This was explained clearly above. 

So im gona say it again: If and when an insert is made - only the required insert number of tracks chosen by the user, should be added with the output - not multiplying it. 

This whole thing is about when inserting either Instrument per output or Split outputs. The number of tracks should start at 1 NOT 16 or 12  or 8 or 4. Default number of tracks should start at 1 irrespective of the output chosen. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[John Vere]

Glen just tried the 2 available dialogue boxes . That was a good way to trouble shoot. 

The old dialogue box opens via Insert menu  -Soft synth which has nothing to do with the browser, it is also then from the synth rack as well d drag and drop from browser or if you double click on a synth in the browser. So 2 ways that are not browser related 2 that are.  
The new dialogue box opens with the + symbol add track option and also when you click in a blank place on the track pane and choose insert instrument. 

They are just different  both seems to give same results. I'm not sure why they kept the old dialogue when they created the new one.  

Not sure what you did to get 256 tracks... I get what I always get,  which is the outputs tracks the VST is said to support and if I enter that number in the bottom. If an instrument only supports 1 stereo output and you enter 2 you'll end up with 2 instances of that synth. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by John Vere

[Will.]

7 hours ago, John Vere said:

Glen just tried the 2 available dialogue boxes . That was a good way to trouble shoot. 

The old dialogue box opens via Insert menu  -Soft synth which has nothing to do with the browser, it is also then from the synth rack as well d drag and drop from browser or if you double click on a synth in the browser. So 2 ways that are not browser related 2 that are.  
The new dialogue box opens with the + symbol add track option and also when you click in a blank place on the track pane and choose insert instrument. 

They are just different  both seems to give same results. I'm not sure why they kept the old dialogue when they created the new one.  

Not sure what you did to get 256 tracks... I get what I always get,  which is the outputs tracks the VST is said to support and if I enter that number in the bottom. If an instrument only supports 1 stereo output and you enter 2 you'll end up with 2 instances of that synth. 

 

 

Again: Why are those menus of relevant here when it's not mentioned here in the OP. Also, that +250 mentioned is on split tracks. 

Choose "SPLIT INSTRUMENT TRACK" quick and let us know what you get. No explanation will be necessary as I know how split tracks works. 

The point of this Q&A remains the same. Cakewalk should not do that - the user must choose. Right now it's working backwards. Upon choosing instruments per out OR "SPLIT" it starts at 16 instead on 1 on "Number of tracks" as default. 

Let's not unnecessary break this into another topic or make it difficult as the QUESTION here is clear as daylight.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Glenn Stanton]

if i select "SPLIT" i see "16" in the box.

however, i do get a massive amount of tracks - so this is definitely a bug @Noel Borthwick, it's launching itself 16 times each with 16 tracks.

 

edit: worst case the split function should result in 2x16 = 32 tracks if split is intended to create 1 midi track for each audio output track. honestly - i never use this function or am likely too, but it should get fixed ? 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Glenn Stanton

[John Vere]

Sorry Will, I was only going by your screen shot in the OP where you do not show selecting split tracks. You only show Instrument track per output. 

So I tried it and you are correct . What it seems to do is insert 1 midi track and then the an instrument track per output plus selected number of synths. 

If you change instruments it automatically selects how many outputs are available. If I select SI drums I get 1, Power drums 16, Addictive drums 9 and TTS-1 you get  4. 

For AD it opened 9 instances of the GUI. Each with 9 audio tracks and 1 midi track or 10 tracks per instance then x 9 = 90 tracks 

For the TTS_1 it opened 4 GUI, with each having 4 audio and 1 midi track =5 tracks x 4 = 20 . 

So there is some logic behind it,  but it is backwards. It should be creating 4 midi tracks and 1 instrument track. And not multiplying that as well. The thread would have been shorter if your second screen shot marked WRONG was correct. It only took me a few minutes to find the issue once I knew what you were trying to say. This problem is using the split instrument track option not the instrument per output. 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by John Vere

[Xoo]

Workaround is available: change the number of tracks back to 1 before hitting go.  It should probably offer the option for #MIDI and #Audio tracks (I'm not sure @John Vere is going to be always right in saying you want one MIDI track - you may want one per output).

[Noel Borthwick]

Its an old bug. The same thing happens in SONAR. We'll look into improving it.

[Glenn Stanton]

20 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Its an old bug. The same thing happens in SONAR. We'll look into improving it.

yes, it's definitely counter-intuitive in the split mode operation ? 

[Will.]

43 minutes ago, John Vere said:

The thread would have been shorter if your second screen shot marked WRONG was correct.

Nothing whatbI said is WRONG. I've said it many times here - Cakewalk should not choose 16 tracks in the No of Tracks little box for us. It should just give 1 by default and let the user choose the amount of number of tracks they want. 

I know I didn't add screens shots of Split Tracks, but its mentioned. So no images here is wrong. 

The image above that say's wrong - thats what cakewalk is doing now and that is WRONG. The1st one (Correct) is how it needs to be display the inserts in both Instrument Per Out and Split. I do say that too. 

[Lord Tim]

Will, can I give you some good advice?

You rightly reported a fairly annoying bug. What you were saying was correct, although John is correct - your first screenshots were wrong. It was conflicting information that muddied the waters and confused your report. What you were saying in your OP was entirely different to your screenshots, which was confusing.

Each reply, especially your last one has come across and more and more aggressive and this is now more like a tantrum than a bug report, like you've done on many posts. A lot of long time posters here don't participate in your threads because they often go this way. Take a breath before you reply, you'll get more people responding favourably to your posts and working with you if you're not stamping your foot like an angry child. 

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

Will, can I give you some good advice?

You rightly reported a fairly annoying bug. What you were saying was correct, although John is correct - your first screenshots were wrong. It was conflicting information that muddied the waters and confused your report. What you were saying in your OP was entirely different to your screenshots, which was confusing.

Each reply, especially your last one has come across and more and more aggressive and this is now more like a tantrum than a bug report, like you've done on many posts. A lot of long time posters here don't participate in your threads because they often go this way. Take a breath before you reply, you'll get more people responding favourably to your posts and working with you if you're not stamping your foot like an angry child. 

Some good advice back to you: "Dont read too much in what was said."

Neither was i | NOR | am i what you made me out to be in your reply. "Emphasizing" the message explanation I gave is not being AGAIN: What you make me out to be. You're taking things out of context. 

So i'm gona ask for this Q&A to be closed. 

Have a good day. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[Lord Tim]

Righto, mate.

[John Vere]

3 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

Workaround is available: change the number of tracks back to 1 before hitting go.  It should probably offer the option for #MIDI and #Audio tracks (I'm not sure @John Vere is going to be always right in saying you want one MIDI track - you may want one per output).

Yes what I want is a midi track per output. If you need more midi tracks to share an output they are easy to add.

The way I've been doing it is to not use the split track option.  I used to be a big believer in using the split track method for midi. I only now use that for instruments that have only 1 output and where I need more than 1 part in it's own track. Piano as example, left and right hand parts. I have converted to using Simple instrument tracks and really gotten to like it better. 

If you say, use AD drums as example,  I'm not going to need 2 snare tracks and 2 kick drum tracks so the Simple instrument track set up is perfect. I get one track per output and I can even delete unwanted tracks.  It's less confusing to have the midi data right there next to the audio track.  So this bug would never happen in my workflow. That's why I was confused abut the OP.