Key+ facility not working as I expected

[Mike Davies]

Hi,

I put a full description of my issue on this thread along with some pix.  Briefly, If I go into the Track Inspector from a Staff view and input an offset (-9 in my case) into the "Key+" field then the output pitch is dropped by 9 semitones as required but the key signature and note notation displayed in the Staff view changes, which is not required.

As far as I can see from page 287 of the manual, it is intended that the software works as I would like :

Quote

Adjusting the Key/transposing a track (Key+)
Each MIDI note event has a key number, or pitch. On playback, the key offset (Key+) parameter transposes all notes in the track by
the designated number of half-steps. The value can range from -127 to +127. A value of 12 indicates that notes will be played back
one octave higher than they are written. This parameter does not affect the note number that is stored for each note event. When the
clip is displayed in other views, like the Piano Roll, Staff, or Event List view, you will see the original notes as they are stored in the
file. To permanently change the pitches, you can edit them individually or use the Process > Transpose command...

If there was any way to prevent the key signature and corresponding notation change then this facility would be perfect for my needs, and, I suspect, the needs of most players of transposing instruments as well.

Also, as an aside, a product enhancement that would be really useful would be for the key selection that is currently used only for note snapping to pitch to be the thing that is responsible for setting the key signature in the Staff view, instead of the software apparently choosing it on its own as currently.

Many thanks,

[Promidi]

Could a work-around be to use the transpose MIDI effect in the MIDI track's effect bin to do the transpose?

[Mike Davies]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

Could a work-around be to use the transpose MIDI effect in the MIDI track's effect bin to do the transpose?

Hi Promidi,

Thanks for your suggestion, which was also made in the thread I linked.  Unfortunately, this has the effect of changing the notation in the Staff view to the concert pitches of the notes which is not the required and documented behaviour.

I am aware of another workaround  which will work but is very clunky to use and that was also given in the linked thread.  I was using this thread as a specific feature request/bug fix request and for comments by the team on these features generally  rather than a search for a workaround.

Thanks again,

[Promidi]

I adjusted the transpose effect in a MIDI track’s effect bin and transposed the notes using the effect by +3 intervals.  It did not change the notes as they appeared in the staff view.  However, as expected, it did change the notes that were actually played by +3 intervals.

Are you sure you’re adding the MIDI effect in the MIDI track’s effect bin?

[msmcleod]

@Mike Davies - you can also use an articulation for this:
 

 

 

[User 905133]

  

4 hours ago, Promidi said:

Could a work-around be to use the transpose MIDI effect in the MIDI track's effect bin to do the transpose?

Is this the same solution that scook suggested and I tried?  I thought it was the solution, not a work-around.

3 hours ago, Promidi said:

I adjusted the transpose effect in a MIDI track’s effect bin and transposed the notes using the effect by +3 intervals.  It did not change the notes as they appeared in the staff view.  However, as expected, it did change the notes that were actually played by +3 intervals.

Are you sure you’re adding the MIDI effect in the MIDI track’s effect bin?

Aha!  You are confirming that it works, too, I think. LOL!  

Maybe we don't understand what the OP wants?  I used a soft synth for my test; maybe its different with external gear?  Maybe I did something wrong? With the soft synth I used a separate midi track, not a hybrid midi + audio track; maybe that makes a different?  (If so, that's another reason to avoid non-split tracks.)

3 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

You need to add the FX to the track's FX bin.

If by FX you mean the MFX Transpose plug-in, this makes sense. It would explain why it worked for me yesterday.  Hope this works for the OP, too.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by User 905133

[Mike Davies]

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

I adjusted the transpose effect in a MIDI track’s effect bin and transposed the notes using the effect by +3 intervals.  It did not change the notes as they appeared in the staff view.  However, as expected, it did change the notes that were actually played by +3 intervals.

Are you sure you’re adding the MIDI effect in the MIDI track’s effect bin?

I believe so.  I have the track in the main view with the Staff showing in the view below.  I perform as follows :

<Right-click on track to select MIDI data><Process Effect><MIDI Effects...><Uncategorised><Transpose> and set <Offset> to <3>

The notes in the Stave view of the track immediately update to match the new midi data which is overwritten in the track.  Re-opening the <Transpose> control shows it is now set to zero and if I want the MIDI data to be returned to its original state then I need to set the offset to <-3> and re-apply it.

[Xoo]

That changes the data.  You need to add the FX to the track's FX bin.

[Mike Davies]

11 minutes ago, Mike Davies said:

I believe so.  I have the track in the main view with the Staff showing in the view below.  I perform as follows :

<Right-click on track to select MIDI data><Process Effect><MIDI Effects...><Uncategorised><Transpose> and set <Offset> to <3>

The notes in the Stave view of the track immediately update to match the new midi data which is overwritten in the track.  Re-opening the <Transpose> control shows it is now set to zero and if I want the MIDI data to be returned to its original state then I need to set the offset to <-3> and re-apply it.

OK, I think I have found it :  I need to apply an <Insert Effect> instead of <Process Effect> in the above chain as follows :

<Right-click on track to select MIDI data><Insert Effect><MIDI Effects...><Uncategorised><Transpose> and set <Offset> to <3>

That leaves the notes in the Staff view unchanged while lowering the pitch of the produced sound.

Thanks again for all the help and replies,

[User 905133]

For a fuller discussion of this issue, see

 

[scook]

1 hour ago, Mike Davies said:

OK, I think I have found it :  I need to apply an <Insert Effect> instead of <Process Effect> in the above chain as follows :

<Right-click on track to select MIDI data><Insert Effect><MIDI Effects...><Uncategorised><Transpose> and set <Offset> to <3>

That leaves the notes in the Staff view unchanged while lowering the pitch of the produced sound.

Thanks again for all the help and replies,

As @Kevin Perry mentioned, the plug-in should be added to the track MIDI FX rack.

I added more detail in