WAV or FLAC for bringing in recording from Ui24R

[Harley Dear]

Hi all,

With the Soundcraft Ui24R, our band is able to record individual tracks onto USB. We also use CBB as backing tracks for drums and brass and patch that to the Ui24R when we perform.

We're wanting to use the recordings of our VOX and instruments taken from the Ui24R and blend these with the backing tracks to make Cakewalk files we can use to mix mp3s for our web-site.

The Ui24R has various file recording possibilities, including WAV and FLAC. The default is FLAC, but I am wondering which would be best and clearest to import into CBB?  The other choices are OGG, MP3 ( which we won't use for importing ) and AIFF.

What would you recommend?

Many thanks

Harley

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harley Dear

[scook]

CbB will convert any file on import to a wav.

When importing wav files that the same sample rate as the project (and the import bit depth is set to the default value "Original" ) there is no conversion performed on import.

[Harley Dear]

Thanks for that. I may as well set the Ui24R to WAV24 then 

[Gswitz]

I'm sure to get yelled at but I'm saying it anyway.

Wave assumes the most significant bit is 1 and so with the same number of bits stored, it gets one more bit of precision.

I did a null test with flac v wave and the waves have 1 bit more precision.

For the purpose of creating mp3s, flac or wave doesn't matter. You will be throwing out 90% of the data at conversion. ?

Flac will take up less space usually, but less commonly with latest wave spec.

I would choose wave 24 as you have.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Gswitz

[bitflipper]

I would never yell at you, Geoff. But you have just CONFUSED THE SH*T OUT OF POOR HARLEY FOR NO GOOD REASON.

Of course, I'm talking about your enigmatic "Happy New Year" signoff. Many of us are still trying to get back in sync with the calendar as we crawl out from under the pandemic. You're not helping.

Harley, with apologies to my esteemed colleague my vote goes to FLAC. Unless you bought the infinite RAM option with your Soundcraft, what you don't want is to run out of memory while recording. FLAC lets you use half as much. If Geoff's right and WAV does give you one bit's worth of additional resolution, it still doesn't matter. Even a high-end ADC is really only accurate to 20 bits.

[Gswitz]

@Harley Dear please ignore this.

@bitflipper

I think when you say only accurate to 20 bits that's bc below that you get lost in noise. Yes? Idk.

It is certainly true if you are using every available bit at loudest point (gain perfectly set) bc mics themselves are crazy noisy, but we don't. We turn down the gain.

If the least significant 4 bits aren't accurate, that changes lots of things we have all come to count on.  Where do you get this evidence? If it is true, how could rme get their thd numbers so low?

Just curious. You state it like anyone can know and i don't.

Also, in my video, i believe that the least significant bit gets left behind and even in that you can kinda make out the rhythm of the song. I'm not sure it is noise depending on your Mic gain settings. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Gswitz

[bitflipper]

3 hours ago, Gswitz said:

@Harley Dear please ignore this.

@bitflipper

I think when you say only accurate to 20 bits that's bc below that you get lost in noise. Yes?

Exactly.

Interfaces deliver 24 bits, and DAWs subsequently turn that into 32 bits for one reason: it allows us more freedom to mangle and twist audio while burying our folly safely below the noise floor.

As you say, we are never entirely freed from the limitations of the analog world. Not if we use microphones, anyway. We are constrained by the practical dynamic range of transducers. Too hot and they clip or pick up unwanted ambience, too quiet and they're noisy. We are also constrained by the acoustics of the physical spaces we record in and the inevitable intrusions from the world around us. And, of course, there's that biggest constraint of all, the limits of our own skills and talents. 

That's why I don't worry too much about the digital process itself. Of all the villains in our play, it's a minor bit player.

[Gswitz]

Oh my gosh yes! And each year it seems to become even less intrusive. Digital stuff is so great that it's easy now. The only challenge is choosing what digital information to ignore.

At the risk of turning this into a friendly one on one convo...

@bitflipper 

I think you might like this book – "Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression" by W. A. Mathieu.

I've been surprised by how digestible it is and how it meets me where i am.

[bitflipper]

Thanks, Geoff. Sounds like just the thing for a summer read.

I like to recommend the original treatise on the subject, written by Hermann von Helmholtz in 1863. Since he was the first guy to try and explain harmonics to the world, the explanations are written for an audience for whom the entire concept was new. So it's really a beginner's book, but everyone should read it because it's available for free online as a PDF.

[Harley Dear]

Thanks guys for taking the time to make your input - I feel a song coming on here - "The Down-Under FLAC-WAV blues"  ?