noynekker Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 Classic Cakewalk forum rants Starship Krupa ! And very fun to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson white Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 16 hours ago, Larry Jones said: Haha. Bob Dylan in 1965:Do you think of yourself primarily as a singer or a poet? Oh, I think of myself more as a song and dance man, y’know. ? Nothing like a bit of Dylan to skewer a clueless generalization. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 So you want young blood but you bring up one of the really old Dudes "Bob Dylan" ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 51 minutes ago, jackson white said: to skewer a clueless generalization. Are you talking about me Wait I'm one of the older folks with Bifocals..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Jones Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, InstrEd said: So you want young blood but you bring up one of the really old Dudes "Bob Dylan" ? ? No, actually I don't care if "young blood" uses CbB. If they do I'll welcome them, but it's not important to me how many kids jump in -- unless Bandlab finds they don't like the older demographic and decides to pull a Gibson. I was responding to @jackson white and @Starship Krupa, who were talking about "authenticity" and "artist vs. entertainer." Hope that clears things up.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Larry Jones said: it's not important to me how many kids jump in -- unless Bandlab finds they don't like the older demographic and decides to pull a Gibson. I think those of us on the forum get a skewed picture of the user base due to the younger folks not being forum-oriented. Regarding Mr. Dylan, I read Clive Davis' autobiography and he said that although Dylan's records for Columbia at the time of their release didn't see great chart action, he wanted Dylan due to the prestige he brought to the label. Of course, time has shown that Mr. Z's albums were fantastic catalog sellers. Even if they never download it, everyone who is shopping for their first DAW will at least see/hear the name "Cakewalk by BANDLAB." I just did a Google search on "what's a good first DAW?" Here are the results: Cakewalk by BandLab – Free (PC only) Reaper – $60. Logic Pro X – $199 (Mac only) Ableton Live 10.1 – $99, $449, $749. FL Studio 20 – $99, $199, $299, $899. PreSonus Studio One 4 – Free, $99, $399 So I think BandLab are getting a fine return on their investment. Addition and refinement of the tools that people use to make beats is probably what they need to focus on if they want to pull in the younger crowd. The YouTube dance music crew, X.E.L. Ohh, Adk, and eWoof have all stated that lack of a sampler/sampler track is the biggest drawback to using the program. Add just that and I think they'll see way more uptake. I can only imagine the slew of tutorials on "How to use the sampler in Cakewalk by BandLab." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 55 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: I just did a Google search on "what's a good first DAW?" Here are the results: You missed Garage Band off your list, free with every Mac since 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: You missed Garage Band off your list I didn't make the list, just copied and pasted. https://www.google.com/search?q=what's+a+good+first+daw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Jones Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: Cakewalk by BandLab – Free (PC only) Reaper – $60. Logic Pro X – $199 (Mac only) Ableton Live 10.1 – $99, $449, $749. FL Studio 20 – $99, $199, $299, $899. PreSonus Studio One 4 – Free, $99, $399 Haha. I thought it said Studio One was $99,399 and I thought "Why not just make it an even hundred grand?" Regarding Ableton and FL Studio, I haven't used them but I'd bet you can't do what you want in the entry-level versions, so at $749 and $899 those would actually be more expensive than SONAR was at its peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: I didn't make the list, just copied and pasted. https://www.google.com/search?q=what's+a+good+first+daw Don't believe everything you read on Google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: Don't believe everything you read on Google I don't and I didn't. The point is not how popular Cakewalk is or might be, but rather that a person doing a search for the right DAW will have the BandLab name flashed at them. I don't believe I said "here's a comprehensive list of DAW's in order of popularity." Edited June 5, 2021 by Starship Krupa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson white Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) On 6/4/2021 at 1:08 PM, InstrEd said: Are you talking about me Not at all. I as referring to my fatuous definition of "art vs entertainment" which @Larry Jones deftly nailed with a zinger from a Nobel Prize winner. Edited June 5, 2021 by jackson white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Anderton Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 (edited) On 6/3/2021 at 1:21 PM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: Read what I said: "Not all people under 30 listen to, or make, the same kind of music, nor do they all need the same type of workflow." If you choose to interpret this as saying rap doesn't matter, that's the wrong interpretation. The last major remix I did was a Chuck D track, who as the lead rapper in Public Enemy, helped establish rap as an art form. The most recent song I mastered was from Martha Davis, of the Motels, who does incredible pop music. My point is that there are multiple markets for multiple demographics, and they don't all draw boundaries on the basis of age or genre. Rock and Pop together exceed rap in all categories shown in the graphic below, except on-demand audio and video streams, where they're essentially tied. Top 10 artists is meaningless to judge a genre, total sales and streams are. And I'd also definitely question classifying Billie Eilish as a "rapper." To quote from the same report you quoted: Billboard reports that BTS is also the top selling artist in the United States this year so far when it comes to the overall album sales (physical CDs and digital album downloads) of their entire catalog, as they’ve sold 757,000 copies of their albums in the first half of 2020. 720,000 of those sales were physical albums. Also from Nielsen music for 2020: Top 5 Pop Genre Artists 1. Billie Eilish – 1.676 million album sales, TEA, and on-demand SEA 2. BTS – 1.417 million 3. Taylor Swift – 1.328 million 4. Justin Bieber – 1.129 million 5. Halsey – 1.009 million My point is there are a lot of different people making a lot of different music, using a lot of different approaches. BTS isn't exactly old white guys, and Taylor Swift is 31. Edited June 5, 2021 by Craig Anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: I don't believe I said "here's a comprehensive list of DAW's in order of popularity." It was implicit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Craig Anderton said: My point is there are a lot of different people making a lot of different music, using a lot of different approaches. And my point is the Sonar/CBB workflow doesn't cater that well for the largest demographic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: And my point is the Sonar/CBB workflow doesn't cater that well for the largest demographic You have a valid point. I'm one of the linear type DAW users but I agree music making has changed. Find a few DAW's as one is not enough IMHO and make some tunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 1 hour ago, InstrEd said: You have a valid point. I'm one of the linear type DAW users but I agree music making has changed. Find a few DAW's as one is not enough IMHO and make some tunes? Yeah I'm used to as I've used it since the 90s but I've watched my own kids, their friends and my nieces/nephews make music ( they all seem to be into this Trap / Hip Hop / Pop crossover type stuff ) and they're all pretty audio/loop based in their approach and none of them have taken to Cakewalk. They just find other DAWs "easier" to do what they want to do. They think of audio almost the same way as we used to think of midi and are from the generation where they expect thing s to things to "just work" If they don't get instant results they'll move on to the next thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: If they don't get instant results they'll move on to the next thing. So true. I was trying to show dad and son how to use an airbrush as the dad hasn't used one in over 15 years. His son wanted to try so bad and when he didn't get good results right away he handed the airbrush back to his dad and was done with it. I was having a good chuckle about it inside. Thinking how long it took be to learn how to airbrush models as a teenager. I would spent hours weathering tanks, airplanes, etc... Seems the majority now a days want that instant result or on to the next thing. I'm so thankful my daughters aren't like that and each have there own hobbies that they spend hours on learning to get better. One of my pet-peeves about school in general that all about the testing and not about actually teaching and having the children learn. I don't blame the teachers as they are in a bind. If your students don't test well you can be out of a job next year. Now parents, there are quite a few I would love to beat over the head with a Salami on how I see them raising their off-spring ? Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Screed Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 (edited) You know, I'm starting a new thread. Though many great points have been made, This is getting us nowhere. We're comparing raisins to grapes. There will always be grapes and there will always be raisins. It is a pour soul who "what abouts you" that "never the twain shall meet." The Woodstock generation? Honestly? Edited June 6, 2021 by Jesse Screed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 14 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said: It was implicit No it wasn't. Not my intention at all. On 6/4/2021 at 2:40 PM, Starship Krupa said: I just did a Google search on "what's a good first DAW?" Here are the results: Cakewalk by BandLab – Free (PC only) Reaper – $60. Logic Pro X – $199 (Mac only) Ableton Live 10.1 – $99, $449, $749. FL Studio 20 – $99, $199, $299, $899. PreSonus Studio One 4 – Free, $99, $399 What that means is that I performed a search on that exact string. Then I pasted the results I got. I didn't search for "what's the most popular DAW?" or "comprehensive list of DAW's." My intent was to do what someone new to DAW's might do and search Google. My point was that apart from any other context, they will see the name "BandLab." That is how they're getting their money's worth: brand name recognition. They make the same amount of money on Cakewalk whether 1,000,000 or 100,000 actually use it. It earns its keep by helping put their name in front of people while also presumably helping to get more people interested in making music, therefore creating more customers for BandLab's commercial products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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