Acknowledge Cakewalk as a pro DAW

[Lord Tim]

12 hours ago, msmcleod said:

It's strange that the Music Industry seems to be the only industry that has this bias against Windows.

 

Yep, I reckon this is a big part of it all. Mac has been so ingrained in the industry, the old myths about "you can't do music production work on a PC" is still being tossed around 25 years later. The amount of times that I've posted (for example) "my hard drive has finally given out" and I've been met with the "mate, get a Mac!"   "Why? The hard drive would have died on a Mac too, why switch platforms?"  ".... because.... .... uhhh ... Get a Mac!" conversation is staggering. I'm not anti-Mac by any stretch but my preferred platform is PC and I've found it every bit as stable if you choose the hardware well.

As for professional, just from my own experience alone, the last 2 albums we've released have hit the top10 on the Aus ARIA charts, and the last one hit #1 on the indie label charts, all done entirely in Cakewalk, and I've worked exclusively on PC for the last couple of decades doing work for clients around the world. Not once has a client received a file from me and gone "what kind of computer did you record this on?"  It's entirely a non-thing, except for the people believing the myth. Could CbB stand to have a couple of features from "pro" DAWs? Absolutely. Does CbB also have a crap-tonne of features they don't have? Definitely. And you can absolutely do professional, world-class work in CbB.  That's all I care about.

[Noel Borthwick]

Sure but only a tiny fraction of users are offline permanently. And we have a solution in place for them called offline activation.

As for requiring bi annual activation here is the reason from the activation FAQ. Its not unusual at all to require the version to be updated occasionally. Otherwise we are inundated with support requests from people running outdated versions. We can only offer efficient support for the latest version since we are constantly fixing issues.

Why is activation required?

Activation ensures that you are running genuine Cakewalk software obtained from our servers and that you have a current version of CbB is actively supported by us. Running an updated version ensures a better user experience by getting the latest features and fixes to the software. Additionally back end changes to the BandLab cloud may periodically require the software to be updated to remain compatible.

[Noel Borthwick]

4 hours ago, marled said:

I agree with you that it is somehow strange! Also, I can approve that in most other industries Windows is taken seriously. The only thing to come to mind as a reason is that in most of those other industries there are professional IT guys that handle the Windows desktops and they prevent Microsoft to undermine the system stability with their permanent updates! On the other side most professional and hobbiest music studios can't afford having permanent ITs to handle Windows. As a result the permanent Microsoft updates create a lot of hassle. I've seen this myself! I have least trouble with my offline DAW that still has Windows 10 Pro 1909 ! I really don't understand and agree to forcing software updates, except for things like Windows Defender!

MacOS is simple and intuitive and audio traditionally was given a focus so things “just worked” out of the box for end users without twiddling. Most musicians want to make music not spend time fiddling with their systems. Also Apple from the get go were “pro creators” even way back in the 80’s, a mantra that only picked up on much much later with the Surface line of products. This is the real reason for the stigma that Windows has dating back from the 80’s. It was not taken seriously by music professionals, because Microsoft didn’t market Windows to them at all or even try to make it better for musicians.  Old habits and biases die hard in the music community even more than other industries, because a lot of it goes around by word of mouth leading to a herd mentality more prevalent than in other industries that are more merit driven.

[twelvetone]

16 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

We have needed registration since the SONAR days. ... I'm curious why you perceive this as being risky.

I was preparing to record a band whose rehearsal room is in an old industrial site. No internet.

I have a small laptop in my bag for this purpose.

Cakewalk showed the red box that told me it would not save.  

Fortunately I still have Sonar installed so the session could go ahead.

But it made me think:

Sonar has had no support from Gibson in years, yet my installed version still works.

I have to trust that Cakewalk will always be there, else all my work will need to be transferred one day.

So yes, I still use Cakewalk because I know it, but after this happened I decided it's safer to learn Studio One (which I got in that sidegrade offer back when the bad news came from Gibson).

Edited May 15, 2021 by twelvetone

[Jeff Bowman]

Some years ago when I bought a Korg Kronos I queried the lack of ASIO drivers for the built in audio interface and was told by a Korg representative that I didn't need ASIO drivers, just use a Mac.

When I replied that I'm happy using Windows they told me that if I was a serious musician I would be using Apple.

Needless to say I dumped the POS Kronos and will never buy another Korg product again!

[Noel Borthwick]

Your version works because the model back then was you needed to purchase a full license for around $500 to get a permanent unlock. However even with your SONAR license if you install it on a new PC you still need to activate it and need an internet connection or offline activation. No change there.

If you don’t have permanent internet, you can connect to a mobile hotspot and activate in seconds. Or use offline activation which is also simple. 
I really don’t get this paranoia about continuity. Did anyone lose anything when the product shifted hands 3 years ago? No, in fact the situation is much better than it was there with the product being free. If something happens in the future it seems logical to assume that whoever has the product is not going to leave customers high and dry.

[Noel Borthwick]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Bowman said:

Some years ago when I bought a Korg Kronos I queried the lack of ASIO drivers for the built in audio interface and was told by a Korg representative that I didn't need ASIO drivers, just use a Mac.

When I replied that I'm happy using Windows they told me that if I was a serious musician I would be using Apple.

Needless to say I dumped the POS Kronos and will never buy another Korg product again!

The music industry is full of people with biases. I doubt this was Korg’s policy but coming from someone in support who was a Mac user. The same thinking goes around in some educational institutions like Berklee unfortunately. I wonder what musicians would feel if a company told them that if they were a serious musician they would use a Gibson instead of a Fender lol.

[twelvetone]

50 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Did anyone lose anything when the product shifted hands 3 years ago?

We were very fortunate and we were all grateful.

But when Voyetra closed, my Sequencer Plus Gold continued working until I finally found an alternative... Cakewalk!

When Gibson pushed off Sonar I installed it on every PC I owned, just in case.

Imagine having to go around every 6 months re-activating every installation? I am unaware of any DAW with this requirement.

Anyway, I just wanted the opportunity to highlight the problem. Thanks!

[Noel Borthwick]

There is no manual reactivating required. It all happens automatically and transparently. The only time you will ever get this prompt is if your PC has been offline and it needed reactivation AND if you have not updated for 6 months. If you have updated ever within the 6 month period you will never see the activation prompt.

As mentioned above one requirement is to keep the software up to date. If you follow these simple steps activation is a non issue.

[John Vere]

Best practices before a live session 

Test that everything is working. All mikes, cables, mixers, interfaces and that the laptop is fully updated and the software will run. 
I usually spend the day before creating the blank projects and testing stuff. I charge 2 hours prep time as part of the session. 
Another best practices is always have a back up of as much as possible even if you leave it in you vehicle. Technology has never been 100% road worthy  only Shure SM mikes?

 

[Craig Anderton]

9 hours ago, Larry Jones said:

Earlier in this thread @Michael Vogel made an oblique reference to a post by @Craig Anderton of a couple years ago in which he hinted a that he knew some of those real world statistics but couldn't divulge them because, IIRC, they were compiled by a company that made its living selling such stats to marketers, so the info was proprietary and privileged. Maybe Craig will jump in here and clarify.

When I worked with Gibson, I had access to MI Sales Trak, which showed what software was selling at retail. It didn't give total/cumulative numbers, but monthly sales figures. It would have been a major faux pas to reveal any of that data, but suffice it to say there was a period of time where Cakewalk was doing quite well. These days, the data is not as relevant since so much software is sold online.

As to Sound on Sound, they stopped running my column because they had done a reader survey, which showed Cakewalk users were a small percentage of their readership.  Magazine space is a finite resource, so Cakewalk was dropped.  

Another magazine said they were interested in my doing Cakewalk-related articles, and I proposed doing either text, videos, or some combination thereof - whatever worked for them. They said in early March they'd get back to me ASAP, but I never heard back. I also checked whether BandLab would be interested in selling my over 400-page eBook of Cakewalk tips, but there wasn't any interest there, either. 

So I've given up on trying to spread the word through other outlets. When I have something Cakewalk-related that's worth posting, I put it on craiganderton.org.  There are currently four Cakewalk-specific articles, but also, several more general articles based on Cakewalk (e.g., about ripple editing, loops, etc.). Unfortunately, the Cakewalk-specific articles are close to the bottom of the most-read list, which doesn't give me a lot of incentive to write more, especially because I can't monetize the time put into them (the site is free).

The irony, of course, is that Cakewalk is better than it's ever been. If it ever deserved attention, it would be now.

[Jeff Bowman]

54 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

As to Sound on Sound, they stopped running my column because they had done a reader survey, which showed Cakewalk users were a small percentage of their readership.  Magazine space is a finite resource, so Cakewalk was dropped.  

One of the first things I always read when I had my SOS subscription.

[sadicus]

@John Vere

Quote

Musicians are starting albums at home and then they pay the studio for certain parts like drum tracking or vocals or mix down. Gone are the days of albums being recorded live in a proper studio. Very few will be done that way these days. These musicians are just like us and they eventually try all the daws and some might settle on Cakewalk. It's not much talked about in interviews with the bands because why would the fans care. 

One thing I've noticed with DIY is the lack of standards that leads to lack of quality. The same thing happened in printing with Clipart and and now with the mirical of tech, Grandma can print her own "Clip Art" greeting cards. lol

@Noel Borthwick

i don't know about risky, but i don't want to have to be connected to the internet just to use software. Marmoset Toolbag does that, but have a bad day with power out or storm etc. to bad for you, can't even learn the software unless it has preinstalled help. I don't like the assumption of being connected  to the internet at all times is or has to be the way forward. At least a hybrid option, choice, something most humans are passionate about.

And yea, Windows updates, app updates = failure with so many paid for softwares.

example:
A nice Sony camera, Black Magic AV USB 3.0  and win 10, literally had the same hardware working a few months ago and now OBS is just a black screen. The "updates" ruined what was once working. Forced Auto updates should be a crime. It's like they just stole the two hardware devices I paid for!

[RBH]

My opinion is that  - I don't need some periodical or any other persons or associations opinion to determine that Cake walk is and has been a professional product for over 30 years. It's MY opinion that matters . I've used most of the majors, and most are ok.  MAC based anything is mostly a joke to me personally. - but whatever.

[Panu Pentikäinen]

Cakewalk is professional DAW. How do I know? -I have used it exclusively for the past 16 years to record, mix and produe music - professionally.

Back in days some clients asked why I don't have Mac and why does that Pro Tools look so strange. Most musicians don't care - I could mix their songs with Notepad or hex editor and they'd be happy.  

Once when Windows crashed during recording session I was told to get Mac. Still no Macs here.

I have lost one or maybe two mixing sessions in the past 20 years because I did not have Pro Tools HD.

PC+Win10+Cakewalk gives you 2x performance with 0,5x money compared to Mac.

[Byron Dickens]

2 hours ago, sadicus said:

i don't know about risky, but i don't want to have to be connected to the internet just to use software.

I don't know where you get that idea, but you don't have to be connected to the internet in order to use CbB

[Noel Borthwick]

2 hours ago, sadicus said:

@John Vere

One thing I've noticed with DIY is the lack of standards that leads to lack of quality. The same thing happened in printing with Clipart and and now with the mirical of tech, Grandma can print her own "Clip Art" greeting cards. lol

@Noel Borthwick

i don't know about risky, but i don't want to have to be connected to the internet just to use software. Marmoset Toolbag does that, but have a bad day with power out or storm etc. to bad for you, can't even learn the software unless it has preinstalled help. I don't like the assumption of being connected  to the internet at all times is or has to be the way forward. At least a hybrid option, choice, something most humans are passionate about.

And yea, Windows updates, app updates = failure with so many paid for softwares.

example:
A nice Sony camera, Black Magic AV USB 3.0  and win 10, literally had the same hardware working a few months ago and now OBS is just a black screen. The "updates" ruined what was once working. Forced Auto updates should be a crime. It's like they just stole the two hardware devices I paid for!

Guys you absolutely do NOT need to be connected to use Cakewalk! I think you are misunderstanding what activation does. ?
You can run cakewalk anytime anywhere without internet. The bandlab integration features are completely optional and those do need an internet.
Even activation can be done without an internet connection from the PC you use Cakewalk with.

[Noel Borthwick]

18 minutes ago, Panu Pentikäinen said:

Cakewalk is professional DAW. How do I know? -I have used it exclusively for the past 16 years to record, mix and produe music - professionally.

Back in days some clients asked why I don't have Mac and why does that Pro Tools look so strange. Most musicians don't care - I could mix their songs with Notepad or hex editor and they'd be happy.  

Once when Windows crashed during recording session I was told to get Mac. Still no Macs here.

I have lost one or maybe two mixing sessions in the past 20 years because I did not have Pro Tools HD.

PC+Win10+Cakewalk gives you 2x performance with 0,5x money compared to Mac.

Ironically I have a macbook here also used daily. The macbook needs to be rebooted at LEAST once a week or audio goes wonky on it.
My Windows development PC stays online without a reboot sometimes for months and it gets a LOT of abuse.
Not to say Windows doesn't have problems but stability these days isn't a major issue.

[eezye]

Whenever I see my friends (I have quite a few facebook musician friends or when it comes up in conversation) asking what DAW they should get, I always recommend Cakewalk. I make it clear that it's a legit, completely unhindered DAW for free... so it'd be pretty senseless NOT to try it, or even use it alongside another already paid DAW. I think that in and of itself is pretty effective, to be actively recommending it as individuals whenever the topic comes up as word of mouth will always be powerful.  I want it to be as popular as it can to keep the support ball rolling!

[murat k.]

Cakewalk Activation is simple but I guess people approach with suspicion to the free Softwares, because of that "If it's free, you're probably the product" thing.

Cakewalk will be taken much more seriously in the near future. Its development is rapid compared to the other DAWs. You'll see, Cakewalk will be the number one DAW in a couple of years. Not only because it's free, but it will also be awesome with this development speed.

AFAIK about the Mac thing, you can run Cakewalk on Mac with that CrossOver Mac® thing by CodeWeavers. There was a Cakewalk Mac Prototype in SONAR days. Is it working without a problem? I don't know. But It can be perfect with some development if it is needed.

Also, we have BandLab of course. It works on the Web, Android, and IOS. When BandLab integration with the Cakewalk made %100, Cakewalk will be everywhere.

Cakewalk will be taken in every music platform not only as a Pro DAW, it will be taken as the best DAW on planet Earth. We'll see. ?