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AKAI VIP played live

Starise

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Starise

Starise

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So I was looking over AKAI VIP software thinking I might use it for live playing.. I decided to see if I could find it in action in a real live playing situation.

I checked YouTube. There's a guy playing in his studio. Nope. Look there's another guy demoing this in his studio. There's yet another person taking VIP through it's paces in the studio.

I wonder how many people have actually used this in a live situation?

If they want to sell to someone who is looking for live solutions, then maybe it's a good idea to have a few people who are actually doing it? Isn't the whole idea of VIP fast portable access to VST instruments without a DAW using a laptop? Maybe more people use it to simply keep track of their synths in the studio?

 

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Starise

Starise

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On 5/5/2021 at 11:30 AM, abacab said:

I think AKAI is backing away from VIP.

They have quietly discontinued their flagship VIP keyboard (Advance series) with full VIP integration, as well as have the other inMusic Brands, M-Audio (CTRL49) and Alesis (VX49).

You can see that their only current products marked as "VIP Ready" are the MPK series. https://www.akaipro.com/products/keyboards

I noticed VIP can be used with any midi keyboard. I assumed their Keyboards were tailor made for VIP in the same way the NI controllers are made for NI software.. It's sad really that they seem to be backing away from their product. 

It's appealing to have capability to move all my studio VSTs to the stage. VIP looked an inexpensive way to do it.  In the end maybe it's just too much for musicians to fiddle with on stage when they can buy a high end Yamaha or Korg and have it all in one box.

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abacab

abacab

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7 hours ago, Starise said:

I noticed VIP can be used with any midi keyboard. I assumed their Keyboards were tailor made for VIP in the same way the NI controllers are made for NI software.. It's sad really that they seem to be backing away from their product. 

It's appealing to have capability to move all my studio VSTs to the stage. VIP looked an inexpensive way to do it.  In the end maybe it's just too much for musicians to fiddle with on stage when they can buy a high end Yamaha or Korg and have it all in one box.

Yes, VIP will work with any MIDI keyboard. I think that the multi and playlist features would be useful for live use, but I only use it in my home studio.

I have the Alesis VX49 with the 'Advance' LCD screen for VIP integration. Needed a keyboard several years ago, got that one, and got VIP 3 bundled for free. When you launch VIP as standalone, or as a DAW plugin, the keyboard is activated in VIP mode, otherwise it performs normally as a generic MIDI controller.

You can build and edit VIP multis, select presets, and control performances (playlists) all from the little color LCD and buttons on the keyboard. Seems that part probably never went over commercially in a big way, but it works. In my home studio, I would rather just use a mouse and PC keyboard, along with my large PC monitor, with VIP running on-screen in full HD. So the keyboard features are no biggie for me and I could take them or leave them. It has been a decent 49 key controller with 8 knobs, 8 pads, and aftertouch.

But I would rather have a master keyboard with some sliders, which the VIP integrated series, and the NI Komplete S series keyboards all seem to lack, unfortunately.

 

 

 

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Starise

Starise

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On 5/7/2021 at 6:13 PM, abacab said:

Yes, VIP will work with any MIDI keyboard. I think that the multi and playlist features would be useful for live use, but I only use it in my home studio.

I have the Alesis VX49 with the 'Advance' LCD screen for VIP integration. Needed a keyboard several years ago, got that one, and got VIP 3 bundled for free. When you launch VIP as standalone, or as a DAW plugin, the keyboard is activated in VIP mode, otherwise it performs normally as a generic MIDI controller.

You can build and edit VIP multis, select presets, and control performances (playlists) all from the little color LCD and buttons on the keyboard. Seems that part probably never went over commercially in a big way, but it works. In my home studio, I would rather just use a mouse and PC keyboard, along with my large PC monitor, with VIP running on-screen in full HD. So the keyboard features are no biggie for me and I could take them or leave them. It has been a decent 49 key controller with 8 knobs, 8 pads, and aftertouch.

But I would rather have a master keyboard with some sliders, which the VIP integrated series, and the NI Komplete S series keyboards all seem to lack, unfortunately.

 

 

 

Thanks for that info. My smallest keyboard is 76 keys and mostly I use bread and butter sounds which made VIP look good because I could have the equivalent of a high end keyboard using my laptop and for the limited live playing I do it wouldn't make sense to invest heavily in a top end keyboard. Not to mention those keyboards are HEAVY to lug and I ain't getting any younger.

The really cool thing about having lots of sounds is the idea of being locked to a groove on stage and having a bunch of things going on while I'm also concentrating on playing, or maybe a very sci fi intro or fills for some material. On stage you don't want any load times so everything has to be pre programmed and fast. Maybe even two keyboards one programmed to certain layered sounds and the other one freed up to play. 

Dragging a laptop around isn't something I'm fond of but I would do it if I could get the kind of capabilities I'm after without buying a high end Yamaha or Korg. Of course then I need some place to put it which means an investment in some kind of stand or holder to add to the keyboard. Things can get complicated very quickly and if you don't always play the same songs you're changing it up each time.

 

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abacab

abacab

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1 hour ago, Starise said:

The really cool thing about having lots of sounds is the idea of being locked to a groove on stage and having a bunch of things going on while I'm also concentrating on playing, or maybe a very sci fi intro or fills for some material. On stage you don't want any load times so everything has to be pre programmed and fast. Maybe even two keyboards one programmed to certain layered sounds and the other one freed up to play.

I think you could accomplish what you wanted by loading VIP multis in order, from the playlist feature of VIP. Switch the multi, and a new set of instruments quickly loads.

VIP multis can contain up to eight VSTi (VST2) instruments, with added 3rd party insert plugin effects (VST2). Save your favorite multis to a playlist and go. Keyboard splits and/or layers with the eight instruments are available.

Any of your instruments in the multi with an internal arpeggiator/sequencer could provide the needed groove. VIP itself has no sequencer, but VIP can run as a VST plugin within your DAW. So you could add a drum machine track to your DAW and sync with VIP.

And I have instant access to over 20,000 of my various VST2  instrument presets in the VIP browser. :)

So maybe AKAI is leaving it for dead? I don't know, but the current asking price for VIP is a no-brainer!

 

Edited by abacab
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dubdisciple

dubdisciple

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VIP is is a risky choice for such things. 1) it is abandonware. It has not been updated in forever. Akai clearly stopped making products that integrate it 2) Most features are a crapshoot, working fine with some products like the equally abandoned legacy air products. 3) other products do what it claimed to offer better

 

Native Instruments kontrol system worked much better for me.  Grannted , it was limited to NI products and partners like Arturia and AAS, but I can pull up, audition presets without touching computer for tons of products consistently including expansions.  The fact that VIP doesn't support VST3 even after Steinberg pulled plug on VST is very telling. I'm not saying don't get it, but keep expectations low.

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abacab

abacab

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2 hours ago, dubdisciple said:

VIP is is a risky choice for such things. 1) it is abandonware. It has not been updated in forever. Akai clearly stopped making products that integrate it 2) Most features are a crapshoot, working fine with some products like the equally abandoned legacy air products. 3) other products do what it claimed to offer better

 

Native Instruments kontrol system worked much better for me.  Grannted , it was limited to NI products and partners like Arturia and AAS, but I can pull up, audition presets without touching computer for tons of products consistently including expansions.  The fact that VIP doesn't support VST3 even after Steinberg pulled plug on VST is very telling. I'm not saying don't get it, but keep expectations low.

With VIP you can create layers or multis. In Komplete Kontrol you cannot. I have both. Multi-timbral vs. not.

I hope NI ups their game and improves KK to add layers. Otherwise, it's a great tool!

I believe you are correct about Akai and AIR products. Their parent company inMusic Brands, has shown no interest in either updating their portfolio, or being responsive to their customer base. But they continue selling their products dirt cheap. Shame on them. But someone just starting out may decide to take a chance for $10 that the stuff still works (for now). Still not a huge risk. One is probably better off in the long run just saving up for Komplete Ultimate.

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dubdisciple

dubdisciple

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21 minutes ago, abacab said:

With VIP you can create layers or multis. In Komplete Kontrol you cannot. I have both. Multi-timbral vs. not.

I hope NI ups their game and improves KK to add layers. Otherwise, it's a great tool!

I believe you are correct about Akai and AIR products. Their parent company inMusic Brands, has shown no interest in either updating their portfolio, or being responsive to their customer base. But they continue selling their products dirt cheap. Shame on them. But someone just starting out may decide to take a chance for $10 that the stuff still works (for now). Still not a huge risk. One is probably better off in the long run just saving up for Komplete Ultimate.

Kontrol is far from perfect but there is at least a chance of growth.  They have made big changes to maschine software in last couple of years.  I have pondered getting komplete ultimate just to get full Kontact but that is all i want at this point. I hate that inMusic removed akai and alesis forums that had VIP map exchange. Do you know of another source hat has maps available?  the system for creating them sucks and autoimport does not seem to work well with most products. Do you also own VX49? I think you may have mentioned it back on old cakewalk forum

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abacab

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33 minutes ago, dubdisciple said:

Kontrol is far from perfect but there is at least a chance of growth.  They have made big changes to maschine software in last couple of years.  I have pondered getting komplete ultimate just to get full Kontact but that is all i want at this point. I hate that inMusic removed akai and alesis forums that had VIP map exchange. Do you know of another source hat has maps available?  the system for creating them sucks and autoimport does not seem to work well with most products. Do you also own VX49? I think you may have mentioned it back on old cakewalk forum

Yes, I got VIP 3.0 bundled with my VX49. Have over 20,000 patches imported into VIP. I like the browser and filter for finding patches by tag. There really is not anything that compares with that feature. Big suck is that it does not recognize VST3, so those presets are ignored.

I am not aware of any alternatives for user VIP map exchange. Another big suck is that inMusic removed their 3rd party forum from "Get Satisfaction", without any notice to users. That is where the VIP map exchange was hosted.

The auto import feature for VIP was reliant on the plugin developer being highly compliant with sharing VST patch info with a host. So a bit hit and miss. As compared to Native Instruments, who obviously told the plugin developers, "Here's our NKS standard, and if you want to play with us, you must comply".

So in that regard , VIP was never destined to be 100% compatible. But I am happy for what works. I can still load it into my DAW, and use what it does self contained. And then insert other VSTi's as needed to round things out.

If you are into preset layering, have you checked out Unify, by Plugin Guru yet? Amazing! https://www.pluginguru.com/products/unify-standard/

 

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dubdisciple

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18 hours ago, abacab said:

Yes, I got VIP 3.0 bundled with my VX49. Have over 20,000 patches imported into VIP. I like the browser and filter for finding patches by tag. There really is not anything that compares with that feature. Big suck is that it does not recognize VST3, so those presets are ignored.

I am not aware of any alternatives for user VIP map exchange. Another big suck is that inMusic removed their 3rd party forum from "Get Satisfaction", without any notice to users. That is where the VIP map exchange was hosted.

The auto import feature for VIP was reliant on the plugin developer being highly compliant with sharing VST patch info with a host. So a bit hit and miss. As compared to Native Instruments, who obviously told the plugin developers, "Here's our NKS standard, and if you want to play with us, you must comply".

So in that regard , VIP was never destined to be 100% compatible. But I am happy for what works. I can still load it into my DAW, and use what it does self contained. And then insert other VSTi's as needed to round things out.

If you are into preset layering, have you checked out Unify, by Plugin Guru yet? Amazing! https://www.pluginguru.com/products/unify-standard/

 

I have not tried that yet.  will check it out. Thanks.

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user 905133

user 905133

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I picked up VIP 3.1 as part of an AIR/AKAI bundle in 2020.  So, I just went looking for map file repositories.  Didn't find any, but found some VIP tutorial articles here.  [UPDATE (2022-11-07)]: It looks like inmusicbrands changed their website and the link no longer works.]

Update wrt user maps: I looked at some of the WayBackMachine Site Grabs for the community and found two captures which had user supplied download links for contributed maps.  I think as a rule the WBM doesn't archive those (e.g., dropbox, pcloud, etc. and even files on manufacturer sites). None for the 3 or 4 links I tried went anywhere. (I tested some site grabs from 2015 and 2019/2020.)

Edited by User 905133
(2) to add an update; (1) to add an addendum
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abacab

abacab

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That archive could be useful. VIP still works as it is, but future development, bug fixes, etc. are not very likely. They stopped short of adding VST3 support, so looking like VST2 only forever.

Regarding the user map share, that concept really never took off and had rather low participation. Most of the maps that were posted were for plugins I did not own. But there are quite a few factory maps that are available after you scan for new plugins.

In addition to the requisite synths from AIR and SONiVOX, I was quite surprised after I acquired the Arturia V Collection 8 and the Korg Collection 3 last year. Many of those instruments had factory maps available for the factory presets. Obviously instruments released in the last few years will not appear.

And even NI synths such as Absynth 5, Battery 4, FM 8, Massive (original) are covered. Also PluginBoutiqe Virtual CZ, Tone2 Saurus, U-he Bazille, Diva, Hive, TyrellN6, Zebra2 & Zebralette. Plus a number of the Waves FX seem to be well represented.

A lot of folks likely assumed that VIP was just intended to compete with Native Instruments and their Komplete Kontrol and NKS ecosystem. I have and use Komplete Kontrol, but VIP can do so much more. KK never could, and still cannot, layer more than one instrument. KK is mostly just a very fancy preset selector.

But VIP allows you to layer up to 8 instruments in 8 channels as a multi, similar to a DAW, with 4 plugin inserts per channel, 4 aux buses, and multiple sends to them via a mixer section. So the total flexibility to use any VST2 plugin without the lack of enforced compatibility for 3rd party plugins, such as employed with the NKS ecosystem, pretty much ensures that not all plugins would play nicely... YMMV. But it's still cool for what works! You just have to lower your expectations from it being the holy grail, and expect to hit a few bumps. :)

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abacab

abacab

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I would recommend Unify as an up-to-date replacement for VIP as a means to be used for building up multi layered instrument patches,  especially for those needing more flexibility with covered plugin types. Unify will let you add as many layers as your computer can take, as well as audio FX per layer, an arpeggiator, special MIDI FX, MIDI file player, sample player, etc.

You will still need to use a DAW for tracking though, but you do have the capability to play an entire mix live with one finger, while twiddling knobs on your controller. If that's your thing!  ?

This is a very deep program, and is ultimately the most flexible and powerful plugin host that I have used so far. Runs as a plugin, or standalone.

https://www.pluginguru.com/products/unify-standard/

"Say hello to a NEW WAY of working with Plug-ins of all types! Unify can work with MIDI Effects, Instruments and Audio Effects in super creative fun ways. Unify Comes in VST (technically known as VST2), VST3 and Standalone for PC and Mac (Mac version also includes an Audio Unit version of Unify). One of the cool things with Unify is that any format of plug-in can load other formats of plug-ins – meaning the Audio Unit version can easily load VST3 and VST plug-ins while you’re using it in Logic Pro X (which doesn’t know what to do with VST or VST3 plug-ins). We talked to a number of small (like us) developers who have made some rather amazing free plug-ins in the last 20 years and received their blessing to include their plug-ins and audio effects – along with our own Guru Sample Player and 14 Effects we built ourselves so that Unify ships with 400 ready-to-play patches when you install it."

Edited by abacab
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Tim Smith

Tim Smith

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Thanks for the suggestions @abacab

I did hear VIP ended up sliding down the tubes so to speak and so I never pursued it.

I have UNIFY and enjoy working in it in a DAW. Never considered playing it live without the DAW.

Having just bought the Arturia V collection, I think it fits well in this context too!

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