about 'tempo track'.

[이우영]

In this update, 'tempo view' disappeared and 'tempo track' was newly introduced, which is completely uncomfortable for me and randomly destroyed the tempo details. There are only straight lines and curves, because of the classical music work, the tempo work is completely detailed, and I brought up the old work file, but the program itself seems to have changed to straight lines and curves... This is a serious problem, has the previous version of the tempo view completely disappeared? ... The biggest problem is that the previous work tempo information is randomly curved in a straight line, so if you play it, it's fatal to not sync. The freedom of tempo control is quite limited, and the audio tempo control aspect seems to be quite progressive, but the old project should at least be preserved properly.

[user 905133]

As a Cakewalk user since it was a MIDI sequencer (pre-Digital Audio versions), I don't do much with tempo changes, but I used your question as an opportunity to try the new Tempo Track.  I didn't try using an loading an old file, but I was able to get something that looks like the traditional tempo view.

It was a quick test (my first time trying the new Tempo Track).  

[references to the Early Release program (including feedback/bug reporting) removed since 2021.04 has now been released.]  

Edited April 30, 2021 by User 905133
to remove references to the EA program since 2021.04 has been released

[John Vere]

Yes putting a bug report here will do no good as they most likely won't see it. This defiantly goes in the Early access sub forum. You'll get a quick reply from one of the developers. 

[msmcleod]

If you set the following within Preferences->File->Initialization File:

TempoImportErrorThreshold=0

... the tempo will be imported exactly as it was in the old project and won't try to fit an envelope shape to the map.

[이우영]

to msmcleod.

Oh, thank you so much. I never dreamed of this method. I opened the old project, and the tempo details were intact. But can't we find the old 'tempo view' anymore? Then I'm a little disappointed.

Thank you very much for your reply. ^^

[msmcleod]

3 hours ago, 이우영 said:

to msmcleod.

Oh, thank you so much. I never dreamed of this method. I opened the old project, and the tempo details were intact. But can't we find the old 'tempo view' anymore? Then I'm a little disappointed.

Thank you very much for your reply. ^^

Just use the tempo inspector.  It essentially gives you the same functionality as the old tempo view.

FWIW - the old Tempo Map is exactly the same as it was behind the scenes.  All the tempo inspector / tempo track, is give you a different way of editing it.

[user 905133]

8 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Just use the tempo inspector.  It essentially gives you the same functionality as the old tempo view.

FWIW - the old Tempo Map is exactly the same as it was behind the scenes.  All the tempo inspector / tempo track, is give you a different way of editing it.

@msmcleodCan I set up personal defaults so that I always get the tempo track and inspector with the settings I have above?  I think I recall your saying recently that Tempo Track settings do not get saved in Workspaces.  Thanks for any tips on how to do this. 

[msmcleod]

Just now, User 905133 said:

@msmcleodCan I set up personal defaults so that I always get the tempo track and inspector with the settings I have above?  I think I recall your saying recently that Tempo Track settings do not get saved in Workspaces.  Thanks for any tips on how to do this. 

Tempo Track settings definitely do get saved in Workspaces as well as screensets.

What I said at the time was, you need to re-save your workspaces/screensets in 2021.04 for them to save those settings, as obviously 2021.01 versions of the them have no knowledge of the tempo track.

[user 905133]

9 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Tempo Track settings definitely do get saved in Workspaces as well as screensets.

What I said at the time was, you need to re-save your workspaces/screensets in 2021.04 for them to save those settings, as obviously 2021.01 versions of the them have no knowledge of the tempo track.

Thanks for clarifying this.  I was thrown off by the following: 

On 4/17/2021 at 1:20 PM, msmcleod said:

Screensets, project templates and workspaces have no information saved as to how the tempo track should be displayed (i.e. its size & visibility).

We've updated the stock templates / workspaces to reflect this, but you'll need to re-save any of your custom screensets, templates or workspaces in 2021.04 to ensure they're updated.

I now understand that you were saying (correct me if I am wrong):

Quote

At present, screensets, project templates and workspaces have no information saved as to how the tempo track should be displayed (i.e. its size & visibility).

However, starting with 2021.04 we've updated the stock templates / workspaces to reflect this, but you'll need to re-save any of your custom screensets, templates or workspaces in 2021.04 to ensure they're updated.

 

[David Baay]

On 4/29/2021 at 9:44 AM, 이우영 said:

There are only straight lines and curves, because of the classical music work, the tempo work is completely detailed

As I have posted many times, it is not musically necessary to have tempo changes in between notes.  Only one, fixed tempo (i.e. a flat line) is needed to perfectly determine the time between the start of one note, and the start of the next, and the type of music has no bearing on this. Classical music is no more complex or sophisticated than any other type of music in this respect.

[이우영]

14 hours ago, David Baay said:

As I have posted many times, it is not musically necessary to have tempo changes in between notes.  Only one, fixed tempo (i.e. a flat line) is needed to perfectly determine the time between the start of one note, and the start of the next, and the type of music has no bearing on this. Classical music is no more complex or sophisticated than any other type of music in this respect.

There are a lot of situations where you have to freely increase one note, including Fermata. Whether it's classical music or any music, free tempo control is a feature that was clearly allowed in previous versions, so I questioned the phenomenon of being lost as the function and information were updated. Besides straight and curved information, I definitely need a function that can be adjusted in more detail. The function of the old 'tempo view' was excellent when one note was controlled by access to another media and wanted to be increased as much as desired.

[msmcleod]

16 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Thanks for clarifying this.  I was thrown off by the following: 

I now understand that you were saying (correct me if I am wrong):

At present, screensets, project templates and workspaces have no information saved as to how the tempo track should be displayed (i.e. its size & visibility).

However, starting with 2021.04 we've updated the stock templates / workspaces to reflect this, but you'll need to re-save any of your custom screensets, templates or workspaces in 2021.04 to ensure they're updated.

Yes, this is correct - apologies for the ambiguity in my first statement.

[David Baay]

9 hours ago, 이우영 said:

There are a lot of situations where you have to freely increase one note, including Fermata.

A Fermata is usually a pause of all instruments, and only requires a single, lower  tempo to the achieve the desired pause. Any changes to individual notes within that pause can and should be done with duration. Excessively dense tempo changes can cause problems with FX processing, and other playback anomalies.

Give me any sample project and I can reduce the tempo map to have no more than one, fixed tempo per note start that will be indistinguishable on playback from the one with curves and nodes between note starts.

I generally perform tempo variations in real time rather than drawing them, but I did enough editing in the old tempo view to know that it was quite awkward because you couldn't drag or 'sculpt' existing tempo changes; you either had to re-draw them completely, or painstakingly click above or below a tempo with snap enabled at the correct resolution to prevent inserting a new one, or manually edit values in the list. The new envelope implementation should be much more user-friendly for this purpose once you get used to it.

[이우영]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:35 AM, David Baay said:

A Fermata is usually a pause of all instruments, and only requires a single, lower  tempo to the achieve the desired pause. Any changes to individual notes within that pause can and should be done with duration. Excessively dense tempo changes can cause problems with FX processing, and other playback anomalies.

Give me any sample project and I can reduce the tempo map to have no more than one, fixed tempo per note start that will be indistinguishable on playback from the one with curves and nodes between note starts.

I generally perform tempo variations in real time rather than drawing them, but I did enough editing in the old tempo view to know that it was quite awkward because you couldn't drag or 'sculpt' existing tempo changes; you either had to re-draw them completely, or painstakingly click above or below a tempo with snap enabled at the correct resolution to prevent inserting a new one, or manually edit values in the list. The new envelope implementation should be much more user-friendly for this purpose once you get used to it.

"A Fermata is usually a pause of all instruments, and only requires a single, lower  tempo to the achieve the desired pause."

This sentence is a very interesting view. Perhaps it is the first absurd argument made in musicology.

The term 'fermata' is merely a slow instruction, and the slow control is assumed to be in the free will of the performer.
Also, if the instrument is superimposed, a fermata in one place requires breathing for each instrument.

So it's a very narrow-minded idea to need only one low tempo.
In addition to the fermata, each instrument requires proper breathing, either when expressing a rubato or when moving from one frame to the next.

Curves and straight lines, or just one low tempo, are never enough to express this.

I understand that too dense speed changes put a load on FX processing. If there's a lot of data, there needs to be a process about it. 
But what I pointed out is why the features and information of the previous version disappeared after the update.

It is a fatal problem that the previous project is loaded and not accurately reproduced to its old condition. 
I have pointed out that it is a separate issue from re-drawing or re-conditioning tempo information, and by no means am I going to have a 'unique' debate on the speed of music like Fermata.

[David Baay]

fermata (n.) 1876, musical term indicating a pause or hold, Italian, literally "a stop, a pause," from fermare "to fasten, to stop," from fermo "strong, fastened," from Latin firmus "strong; stable"

A fermata will usually be preceded by a rit. in performance, whether notated or not, but the fermata itself is just a pause/hold/hesitation.

An any case, the fact remains that no more than one, fixed tempo is needed to control the timing from that start of one note to the next.

As I said, give me any example in MIDI, and I will demonstrate.

It is a fatal problem that the previous project is loaded and not accurately reproduced to its old condition.

This is the one thing I agree with, and a solution is was given.

[Base 57]

6 hours ago, 이우영 said:

It is a fatal problem that the previous project is loaded and not accurately reproduced to its old condition. 

Go to Preferences-File- Initialization File. In the "Option"  box add the following line.

TempoImportErrorThreshold

In the 'Value" box enter the number 0.

Hit Set - OK. 

That will load old projects without changing the Tempo Map.

You should also look at the TempoMapDecimationResolution. This defaults to 1/16th note.

 

This is all discussed in the 2021.04 Feedback Thread.

As for tempo mapping fermatas ..    Do it however sounds right to you.