Something in Cakewalk is WIDENING all my tracks!!!

[John Vere]

@Glenn Stanton  The OP has an audio interface if I remember the other threads correctly. So windows sounds have nothing to do with that. They are for on board audio. 

[murat k.]

24 minutes ago, John Vere said:

@Glenn Stanton  The OP has an audio interface if I remember the other threads correctly. So windows sounds have nothing to do with that. They are for on board audio. 

I think @Glenn Stanton wanted to summarize the whole bad-checking process from the beginning in general. And yes @John Vere, it is obvious from the beginning that the problem is not about Windows Sound settings, me in personal I get that from @Marcello said that he is having the issue in one project in all tracks. So that was meaning there is an FX causing that problem in Master Bus. But he said there is no FX on Master Bus because Audio Meter plugin is not an FX actually he was kinda right. ? Then I thought that ProChannel thing. Anyways, I am glad that finally his problem is solved. ?

[Marcello]

11 minutes ago, murat k. said:

I think @Glenn Stanton wanted to summarize the whole bad-checking process from the beginning in general. And yes @John Vere, it is obvious from the beginning that the problem is not about Windows Sound settings, me in personal I get that from @Marcello said that he is having the issue in one project in all tracks. So that was meaning there is an FX causing that problem in Master Bus. But he said there is no FX on Master Bus because Audio Meter plugin is not an FX actually he was kinda right. ? Then I thought that ProChannel thing. Anyways, I am glad that finally his problem is solved. ?

Yea just a bloody meter plugin didn't think could act like that!

Anyway problem solved, I'm now trying to check the mix balance and phase issues using Izotope Ozone imager, anyone knows?

I was trying to follow the LCR panning rule (100% R/L and center), I found out the following.

- I had some phase issues in the part of the song where 2 clean guitars Only, panned 100% L/R were playing

- In the parts where 2 distorted guitars are 100% panned L/R, there's no phase issue because the bass and the drums are in the center.

- So in the clean guitars part, following Ozone stereoscope, I panned them 60% left and right, no phase issue.

- I can conclude that the LCR panning rule is good and sounds wide but applicable only on distorted guitar parts with drums + bass in the center

At the end the meter plugin widening issue was solved, but of course it didn't sound wide when I removed it, so with Ozon I gave a little bit of stereo widening in the Master bus.

Do  you think is a good point? It's the first time I do this balancing/phase thing.

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Marcello

[murat k.]

1 hour ago, Marcello said:

Do  you think is a good point? It's the first time I do this balancing/phase thing.

In general I can't give you a mixing advice because I'm not at that level at the moment, I'm just a learner like you are. But I'm sure that some experienced people in this community can help you about that.

[Glenn Stanton]

in general, if you have discreet mono tracks, LCR is just that. to widen a given instrument in stereo you can use mid-side EQ, delays (Haas effect) or have it recorded with a stereo mic setup (recommend M/S setup so it can collapse in mono). listening to the mix in mono (meaning tracks, busses, and a single center speaker all mono) allows you to find places for everything using panning and volume and EQ. then opening it all back up to stereo is often an amazing thing ? however rechecking in mono is important. why? most night/dance clubs use mono on their systems to avoid weirds holes in the music or other audio, people often share one side of their ear buds etc. so if the balance is good in mono or fairly even in ear side, your audience will often benefit from that effort.

the Ozone Imager uses M/S EQ and has a stereoize Haas effect. which can result in phase issues. poorly done mic'ing can result in phase issues and time issues. skewing a double track (even if played fairly closely) can lead to what sounds like phase issues since it mimics a poor mic setup.  and spanning an instrument via a delay can result in a "big mono" sound and may be what you want to not. so setting a stereo instrument within a stereo track (e.g. a leslie organ) means you need to have a means of controlling each side of that track with a panner or a plugin (like channel tool) to apportion it within the sound field (e.g. the leslie spans C+10% to L+60%)

[Glenn Stanton]

some good info on wide guitars: https://www.puremix.net/blog/double-tracking-rock-electric-guitars.html

[Marcello]

21 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

some good info on wide guitars: https://www.puremix.net/blog/double-tracking-rock-electric-guitars.html

That's cool but actually I didn't record with amps, I'm recording at home with a pc, a guitar and an audio interface, that's it.

So I'm using THU Overloud amp simulator, not much need of EQs, the amp plugin take the mono signal and spit it out in stereo basically.

I'm now in the phase of balancing my mix, and I have some doubts.

I'm using Ozone imager and yes it has a stereo widener, I have increased the stereo widener placed in the master bus at about 50% in Ozone Imager because to me it seems much better overall, sounds a bit wider.

But indeed basically I see the phase meter going at about -1 in the first part of the song where only 2 clean guitars are playing.

Are the 2 panned guitars causing this phase issue?
Is it that they are too much panned left and right, consequently when you switch to a mono device you cannot hear one of them?
Should I care if my mix cannot be heard in mono really? Since its not club music and wont be played in mono speakers?
Should I really care about people playing music on their mono iphone speakers? Who does that?!!
Maybe i cannot hear the phase issue cause i’m mixing with headphones being at home with my wife cannot play it on speakers!?

Only thing I’m seeing is in the Ozone meter going in -1(out of phase) in some parts where only 2 clean guitars are playing, panned left and right, like if something is missing in the middle, but when the bass and drums starts playing, there’s no phase issue, probably because those are pan centered!
what should I do in this case? Should I just leave it like it is?
Or bring one clean lead guitar panned in the mid? If I do so, i have 1 pan center and one extreme left, leaving the right side empty, is this good for the mix balance?
I mean if i have only 2 guitars playing in my mix, there’s gonna be of course some empty space, whether I pan center and right then left would sound empty, or if i pan both left / right then the center would sound empty. What would you recommend? Am I worrying too much about this stuff?

[Byron Dickens]

Real amps or sims, doesn't matter. The principle is the same.

[Marcello]

24 minutes ago, bdickens said:

Real amps or sims, doesn't matter. The principle is the same.

Got it, reading it very useful article. Only doubt is when only 2 panned guitars are playing on their own, it seems to result in a phase issue.

[murat k.]

1 hour ago, Marcello said:

Am I worrying too much about this stuff?

Yes.

I listened your track. It sounds good.

[reginaldStjohn]

50 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Got it, reading it very useful article. Only doubt is when only 2 panned guitars are playing on their own, it seems to result in a phase issue.

The only way that should happen is if you duplicated the same guitar track and then sum them to mono. Two separate takes should not have any phasing issues.

[Marcello]

2 hours ago, reginaldStjohn said:

The only way that should happen is if you duplicated the same guitar track and then sum them to mono. Two separate takes should not have any phasing issues.

No I did not, I’m just assuming is out of phase cause looking at the ozone imager phase meter it goes down between 0 and -1 meaning phase issue.

[SteveC]

Are you playing the same part using the same (or very similar) tone?  If so it is possible that certain parts are close enough to "duplicate" to have that effect.  Try EQ-ing the two sides radically different or maybe slightly sliding one along the timeline - does that change the results in Ozone?

[Marcello]

10 hours ago, SteveC said:

Are you playing the same part using the same (or very similar) tone?  If so it is possible that certain parts are close enough to "duplicate" to have that effect.  Try EQ-ing the two sides radically different or maybe slightly sliding one along the timeline - does that change the results in Ozone?

actually yes in some parts, I'm changing the different amps and cabinets, thanks for the tip, I think it's fine now.

[SteveC]

Cool!  Sounds like you're making good progress.

[murat k.]

haha! finally. ?

[Marcello]

Anyway I'm using LANDR for mastering my songs, anyone knows? ever used it?

it's an AI online mastering platform, basically you don't do anything, you just drop your mix into LANDR and it just spit out the mastered version, you can edit some minor settings or either upload a reference track to make your master sound like that.

[murat k.]

3 hours ago, Marcello said:

Anyway I'm using LANDR for mastering my songs, anyone knows? ever used it?

it's an AI online mastering platform, basically you don't do anything, you just drop your mix into LANDR and it just spit out the mastered version, you can edit some minor settings or either upload a reference track to make your master sound like that.

I used it once but actually I liked my Mastering better ?

BandLab has that kind of thing and it's free. Check it out: https://www.bandlab.com/mastering