Direct sidechaining routing options from plugin

[GreenLight]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:25 PM, Kevin Perry said:

OK, I see: I don't think that's a good idea without immediately offering the level and pre/post settings - it's half-baked and will lead to more questions/poor usage.  And adding those extra controls in to a popup could easily become unwieldy.

For me, the benefits would be, in order of importance:

1. Faster workflow when selecting side-chain source. Example: I add the compressor plugin to the bass and with a minimum of fuss, I could select the side-chain source as well. This would be a drop-down in the VST plugin window header, see the Logic screenshot in an earlier post.
    
2. More easily understand existing routing. Example: I open an older project and look at the compressor plugin and with a quick glance I can see which tracks are feeding the compressor side-chain (it could be multiple).
   
   As it is now, you have to hunt for sends by going through all your audio tracks ... ?

Adding the possibility to be able to adjust send level from the VST plugin header as well, in addition to doing this from the source track, would be cool!

Is it "bad UI" to be able to adjust the same setting from two different places? I don't know. But in this case, I don't care. ?

[solarlux]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:35 PM, GreenLight said:

For me, the benefits would be, in order of importance:

1. Faster workflow when selecting side-chain source. Example: I add the compressor plugin to the bass and with a minimum of fuss, I could select the side-chain source as well. This would be a drop-down in the VST plugin window header, see the Logic screenshot in an earlier post.
    
2. More easily understand existing routing. Example: I open an older project and look at the compressor plugin and with a quick glance I can see which tracks are feeding the compressor side-chain (it could be multiple).
   
   As it is now, you have to hunt for sends by going through all your audio tracks ... ?

Adding the possibility to be able to adjust send level from the VST plugin header as well, in addition to doing this from the source track, would be cool!

Is it "bad UI" to be able to adjust the same setting from two different places? I don't know. But in this case, I don't care. ?

Yes and also when 100 tracks and easier to track sidechained sends

[solarlux]

Maybe additional ideas how this feature would be best ? level control, post or pre send or other controls ?

Edited February 17, 2021 by solarlux

[GreenLight]

On 2/17/2021 at 5:12 PM, solarlux said:

Maybe additional ideas how this feature would be best ? level control, post or pre send or other controls ?

Hm, yes either a simple side-chain source select like Logic, or with also a couple of added level controls as well. ?

[Will.]

@solarlux @GreenLight I actually came to realized thay Cakewalk is doing this the way it's done by hardware because of the prochannel that emulates hardware strips. 

[GreenLight]

4 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

@solarlux @GreenLight I actually came to realized thay Cakewalk is doing this the way it's done by hardware because of the prochannel that emulates hardware strips. 

Hm, you're saying that Cakewalk's sidechain routing concept imitates hardware? Yes, I suppose that's very likely, I believe most older DAWs do.

About PC, I have to confess that I'm not using ProChannel at all... and never have. Maybe it's time to start?

[Will.]

33 minutes ago, GreenLight said:

About PC, I have to confess that I'm not using ProChannel at all... and never have. Maybe it's time to start?

☺ You can. I don't see why not. I use the Console emulators now and then, when ever I remember those exists. It's not bad sounding - including the style dial effects. It comes handy too just wish the EQ module was removable too. When I do use the PC I remove every module on it and only leave the Emulators Modules active. Theres been times when the EQ switch itself on. Maybe some shortcut I'd forgotten about . . . I'm trying to avoid those accidents. 

33 minutes ago, GreenLight said:

Hm, you're saying that Cakewalk's sidechain routing concept imitates hardware? 

I'm saying exactly that. 

This external input to the side-chain is known as the ‘key input’. When working using plug-ins (rather than hardware) where a bus need to be created to a virtual path. 

In hardware gear this is done via an insert point known as a "send and return" placed in the side-chain path which connects to output and input sockets on the rear of the unit. Cakewalk emulate this routing method. 

My current workflow to identify all my SC inputs, is to create a folder and move all my sidechain tracks to it.

That being said: moving this to the plugin wouldn't be a bad idea i guess. I too think for visual purpose it will be a benefit? 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Will_Kaydo

[solarlux]

23 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

@solarlux @GreenLight I actually came to realized thay Cakewalk is doing this the way it's done by hardware because of the prochannel that emulates hardware strips. 

It means already possible this type of sidechaining but in PC?

[Will.]

1 hour ago, solarlux said:

It means already possible this type of sidechaining but in PC?

The hardware routing? Yep! All over in Cakewalk. ☺ its the current steps to sidechain in CbB. The bus compressor in the PC has the Sidechain switch. 

[GreenLight]

On 9/12/2021 at 11:04 PM, Will_Kaydo said:

☺ You can. I don't see why not. I use the Console emulators now and then, when ever I remember those exists. It's not bad sounding - including the style dial effects. It comes handy too just wish the EQ module was removable too. When I do use the PC I remove every module on it and only leave the Emulators Modules active.

I need to try it, it IS conveniently located... I guess I've just been wary of built-in effects, somehow I have perceived external VSTs to be more reliable over time, with version changes and upgrades. But maybe it's the other way around? ?

On 9/12/2021 at 11:04 PM, Will_Kaydo said:

I'm saying exactly that. 

This external input to the side-chain is known as the ‘key input’. When working using plug-ins (rather than hardware) where a bus need to be created to a virtual path. 

In hardware gear this is done via an insert point known as a "send and return" placed in the side-chain path which connects to output and input sockets on the rear of the unit. Cakewalk emulate this routing method. 

My current workflow to identify all my SC inputs, is to create a folder and move all my sidechain tracks to it.

That being said: moving this to the plugin wouldn't be a bad idea i guess. I too think for visual purpose it will be a benefit?

I agree. I am familiar with the side-chain concept in hardware as well and I think Cakewalk (and most other DAWs with a long heritage) have imitated hardware routing, it's a natural studio evolution. That said, I believe Cakewalk could simultaneously offer other routing options as well, while still keeping the options of the old paradigm.

An example from Live: you select two audio tracks and press CTRL+G - an aux track is created, the selected tracks are grouped and routed to the aux. It's brilliantly modern, simple and FAST!