AUX (patch point) tracks for MIDI

[Colin Nicholls]

I would love to send a MIDI track to multiple instruments (VST or external). I know you can duplicate a track easily enough but then you have an editing problem keeping them synchronized.

I suspect this requires the concept of "patch points" or AUX tracks for MIDI - you'd create a new patch destination for your MIDI track, then select it as an input for two or more MIDI or Instrument tracks.

I guess you'd need to prevent a MIDI track from both sending and receiving from the same PatchPoint/AUX track.

[scook]

While waiting for the MIDI equivalent of audio patch points, there are a couple of ways to drive multiple MIDI tracks with the same MIDI data

1) Duplicating tracks. To automatically keep multiple copies of the same clip in sync make sure to link clips when duplicating tracks. When linked, changes made to one clip propagates to the others. The link option is in the duplicate track settings dialog. When working with clips instead of tracks Paste Special has an option to link clips.

2) Virtual MIDI Cable - both LoopBe1 and LoopMIDI are free. They may be used to send a MIDI track to multiple MIDI tracks. LoopBe1 provides a single virtual cable. LoopMIDI can provide multiple virtual cables. The manufacturer of LoopBe1 has a paid solution for multiple cables.

[sjoens]

A simple way to route a MIDI track to multiple synths would be the best way.

[Davydh]

I would love native Cakewalk midi sends.

I use Cakewalk for composition and while playing keyboard, I love layering the sound. Midi sends is necessary for that to work.

[Glenn Stanton]

definitely patch points would be a plus. a huge plus. however, scook's using a plugin or MIDI generator as a source across all tracks is valid and easy to do. i use RipChord and Scaler 2 and some free MFX plugins as well as the FN42.

[scook]

Here is one of the posts about alternate MIDI routing using a plug-in

 

[Byron Dickens]

+1

[Sridhar Raghavan]

+1

[Starship Krupa]

I can see multiple ways to implement this. My first thought was be to be able to select multiple destinations in a MIDI track's "output" pulldown, but then I remembered that Cakewalk's MIDI tracks also have those pulldowns for Bank and Patch (which I never use, although maybe I might at some point). That might cause trouble.

MIDI sends from MIDI and Simple Instrument tracks might be the best option. I believe that someone mentioned that this is how it's implemented in another popular DAW, and it seems tidy and straightforward, and mirrors a similar function that Cakewalk has in its Audio tracks. As with any solution, MIDI loops would have to be prevented.

Another way would be for MIDI and Instrument tracks to set their input to be other MIDI track(s), although this would need to have protection against forming MIDI feedback loops.

Yet another way would be to allow a Synth track to choose which MIDI track(s) it's taking input from. That way, just like you can have as many tracks as you want being fed from Audio Input 1 or the MIDI output of your interface, a Synth track could choose from whatever MIDI track(s) it wants to listen to. This is the second place I looked, but as Mr. Cook will point out, Synth tracks are just Audio tracks that have their input set to be a virtual instrument. Soft synths actually live in the Synth Rack, not the Synth Track, although some operations are possible from the Synth track, like replacing. It confounded me at first when I went to change the input of a Synth track and saw that its input was the synth itself. Made no sense. That is, until you consider how Cakewalk evolved.

An option to enable MIDI output for synths that don't implement it themselves, from the "VST" menu in the plug-in properties window is yet another option. This would allow daisy chaining multiple synths and mirrors physical world MIDI functionality., like a virtual "Thru box."

After this, Aux Tracks/Patch Points. Aux tracks would have the advantage that you could also have the Bank and Patch menus.

In another program I use, Instrument tracks are allowed to have multiple synths (each one has a synth rack that you can rearrange), and that's a possibility too, although it would seem like the most complicated to implement.

Any of the above would be fine with me.

[Glenn Stanton]

2¢ more - any time you are "stacking" multiple selections on a single control (like output or input) you run the risk of these being hidden from general view and could result in people having problems with changes or troubleshooting... i like the idea of "MIDI sends" for when you want to assign the output to something else specifically and when looking at the track can see it (unless you have lots of them so they're hidden). or a "patch point" (as a send and/or output assignment) where any track can select it as an input (or really any MIDI input on a synth or track). for me, an "aux" track is just a convenience to setup a patch point + related track so that would be consistent with the audio side of things. these two approaches would seem intuitive and not result in (too many) "hidden" connections and provide folks with "absolute" routing paths when desired. 

on the sends it would be nice to have filtering options (like we have volume and pan) like notes or CC, ranges, etc.

on patch points - i'd keep it simple - the consumer manages the content they get from it. this avoids possible man-in-the-middle complexities like when you're trying to tweak something at 4am and end up pulling hair out trying to remember why the wrong stuff is happening when everything seems to be set ok... ? 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:03 AM, Starship Krupa said:

In another program I use, Instrument tracks are allowed to have multiple synths (each one has a synth rack that you can rearrange), and that's a possibility too, although it would seem like the most complicated to implement.

I think this is the simplest and most easy to understand method of stacking VSTi's , and whilst it would be cool if CBB had this built in , you can do it easily with a 3rd party plugins such as Bluecats Patchwork or if you want something more advanced Akai VIP 3 ...Years ago whilst still on Sonar 8.5 I had another plugin that did it too and if I recall it was free but I stopped using it at some point when I got Patchwork and don't recall what it's called now. 

I use VIP these days which came free with an M-Audio keyboard but you can stack 8 instruments with 4 FX sends and it allows you to transpose each one as well as control the more usual vol - pan etc. The patch browser combines all your VSTi's into one database  so you don't need to open them individually although not every instrument has a map available.