Cakewalk Articulations and Key numbers

[Jimbo 88]

Just throwing this out there.  Some of the articulation maps I created worked fine right off the bat.  Cinematic Strings in Kontact for example.  VSL Special edition and Spectronics Trillion where not.   It was very frustrating and disappointing. 

Until I remembered/ stumbled across the fact that Note numbers don't aline in different companies.  C1 is C2 depending on who is mapping things out.

Just throwing this out and maybe save someone a couple of hours of head scratching.

This expression map/articulation thing is such a great time saver.  Love it. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Jimbo 88
duplicate words

[Colin Nicholls]

Articulation maps should be using MIDI note numbers. Note 60 will always be "middle C" at 262Hz.

Cakewalk seems to respect the "Base Octave for pitches" preference setting in the Articulation Map editor. I typically use a Base Octave set to -2, and it looks good to me:

If I set Base Octave = 0, then the Editor respects this and shows "C3 [36]" against the Note/CC instead of "C1".

I haven't imported any articulation maps from third parties so I can't see whether other products only refer to Note Names and don't assign artics to Note Numbers. But if they are designed correctly they totally should be using MIDI note numbers, not note names.

(LATER: I was curious and checked the JSON .artmap format used by Cakewalk, and, yes, parameter B2 is definitely storing the MIDI Note Number. Of course.)

Edited November 14, 2020 by Colin Nicholls

[Steve Harder]

54 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

I haven't imported any articulation maps from third parties

The Cubase expression maps I've imported have all worked.  Cubase maps are stored in a binary file, so not easily viewed, but must be using note number.

[Colin Nicholls]

@Jimbo 88, have you actually encountered a problem with importing and miss-aligned articulation keys?

[Jimbo 88]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:27 PM, Colin Nicholls said:

@Jimbo 88, have you actually encountered a problem with importing and miss-aligned articulation keys?

I have not imported any articulation maps.  I create my own...and the reason why I would not try to import maps is because I change all my key switches.  I went thru every instrument I use and mapped them all to the same or similar notes below the 88 note piano keyboard I use so to not accidentally hit one of these notes while playing.  As an example,   I try to keep all the legato switches on the same note no matter what library.  I also use other controllers to key the switches.  I try not to have to remember each library differently.

When I started creating my own expression/articulation maps, I forgot about the C1-C2 thing.  I realize now I should have just been looking at the number.

The new maps are going to save me hours just by the fact that I can start at any place in a sequence and not have to worry where I placed my last key switch.

So happy.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maestro]

On 11/14/2020 at 2:11 PM, Steve Harder said:

The Cubase expression maps I've imported have all worked.  Cubase maps are stored in a binary file, so not easily viewed, but must be using note number.

Definitely a binary file that is not easily viewed ?

[Maestro]

On 11/16/2020 at 9:23 PM, Jimbo 88 said:

I have not imported any articulation maps.  I create my own...and the reason why I would not try to import maps is because I change all my key switches.  I went thru every instrument I use and mapped them all to the same or similar notes below the 88 note piano keyboard I use so to not accidentally hit one of these notes while playing.  As an example,   I try to keep all the legato switches on the same note no matter what library.  I also use other controllers to key the switches.  I try not to have to remember each library differently.

When I started creating my own expression/articulation maps, I forgot about the C1-C2 thing.  I realize now I should have just been looking at the number.

The new maps are going to save me hours just by the fact that I can start at any place in a sequence and not have to worry where I placed my last key switch.

So happy.....

 

 

Articulations are mapped, by default, outside of the playable range of the instrument.

So, this is nothing more than extra work that is totally unnecessary.

You will not hit C0 while playing a Violin Patch, for example.  No Violin plays a C0.  The same way you won't hit C5 while playing a Double Bass patch.

The point of Articulation Maps is that you don't have to use a controller to key the switches.  You play the notes in and then you apply the articulations later - the same way you would if you were playing them into Notation Software.

You don't have to remember the KS for each library.  The Articulation Map does that for you.  The only time that tis even a factor is if you are trying to play an instrument live while switching articulations - and the maps are a complete non-factor in that scenario.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Maestro

[Jimbo 88]

On 12/2/2020 at 10:15 PM, Maestro said:

Articulations are mapped, by default, outside of the playable range of the instrument.

So, this is nothing more than extra work that is totally unnecessary.

 

Yes, but in the heat of the moment I might be playing a harp, or a Hammond b3 and accidental swipe down into the Keyswitching  area.  Although a violin has its keyswitches below it's playing range a cello or a double bass might have the keyswitch above.  Different manufactures put keyswitches in different places.

So me putting all my keyswitches in the same place has saved me tons of time.  Totally necessary.  Outdated now because of articulation maps, but I'm not going to go back and reset all my libraries and make older files not work anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Glenn Stanton]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:08 PM, Maestro said:

Definitely a binary file that is not easily viewed ? 

it's a computer. everything is binary. one way or another. ? 

[Jim Fogle]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:14 PM, Colin Nicholls said:

Articulation maps should be using MIDI note numbers. Note 60 will always be "middle C" at 262Hz.

Colin,

I never thought I'd disagree with you but your statement above is partially wrong.  The top of page 5 of the midi specification attached below does assign MIDI note 60 to middle C.  However,  the specification does not provide either a pitch or frequency for middle C.

C4 is considered middle C in Scientific Pitch Notation (SPN) however SPN is just one of many notation standards.  This link gives many examples of possible middle C definitions.

RP-003_General_MIDI_System_Level_1_Specification_96-1-4_0.1.pdf

[chris.r]

12 hours ago, Jim Fogle said:

C4 is considered middle C in Scientific Pitch Notation (SPN) however SPN is just one of many notation standards.  This link gives many examples of possible middle C definitions.

Jim, I had a very quick look but I think they're all referring to the same note

[Glenn Stanton]

this should settle it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(musical_note)#Designation_by_octave  ? 

[Jim Fogle]

I humbly disagree that midi note 60  = C4 is set in stone.  There is disagreement in the musical community about if C3 or C4 should be considered middle C.   Here is a classroom resource for a midi class that states,

Quote

There are TWO conventions for numbering keys (notes) in MIDI. The most common is the one below where MIDDLE C (note #60; $3C) is C3 (C in the 3rd octave). However, another convention was adopted by Yamaha Corp. for their synthesizer products which parallels the Octave Designation System used in Music Education formulated by the Acoustical Society of America. In that convention, Middle C is designated "C4". The "C3 Convention" is the most commonly used octave designation system on standard MIDI keyboards and this is the convention we will use for this class

The bold emphasis is mine.

Here is a blog post that provides a little background information and provides two examples.  An excerpt is given below: 

Quote

back in 1982 Roland documentation writers chose “C4” to represent Note 60, middle C, and to enumerate octaves from C to B (.e.g. ascending notes would be A4, B4, C5, D5, etc.)

And everything was cool… until Yamaha used “C3” to represent note 60 in their own MIDI documentation.

Since then, instrument and music software manufacturers tended to pick one of the two conventions and ignore any subsequent confusion on the part of the users.

For example, XLN’s Addictive Drums follows Yamaha’s convention, and in their documentation and note maps, they use “C3” to refer to note 60.

Voxengo SPAN, however, displays ~262 Hz as “C4”, following the Roland standard.

Again the bold emphasis is mine.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Jim Fogle

[Colin Nicholls]

@Jim Fogle, at first glance it appears you are using a quote from a post on my own blog  to support your position, which is flattering.

Just to be clear, IN THIS THREAD I never said MIDI note 60 = C4.

What I said was, MIDI note 60 will (or should) produce a tone of ~262 Hz which is considered to be "Middle C".

The convention of whether "Middle C"  is C3, C4, or C5 is a whole other discussion ?

Edited December 12, 2020 by Colin Nicholls

[Jimbo 88]

whooo boy, this is all too technical for me.  I just wanna play and hear my notes.  Once I get things to work I move on and never think about it again which is probably a mistake 'cause I end up reinventing the wheel a lot.   Just like this time.

 

But I'm always glad I can come here and learn something just about every dang time.

[chris.r]

@Jim Fogle again, everything in your latest post refers to the same note, the middle C, the note #60 (the one at 262Hz, as Collin rightly pointed). The discussion is only about different conventions for what to call it, C3 or C4 or yet something else, but regardless different names, middle C without a doubt is always the same note number 60 .

You can adjust it in Cakewalk depending on what convention are you going to follow, there's a setting for Base Octave in preferences. I have it always set to -2 habitually, guess that's after the Yamaha note names.