SI Bass

[brandon]

I have a midi bass track that works fine with TTS1. I loaded SI Bass into my project and plucked it a few times and it works. I then link the bass midi track to SI Bass and there is no sound. I have attached a pic of the settings and have tried all different combinations. If I revert back to TTS1 the sound comes back.

I must be doing something wrong but I cant see what it is. Any advice would be appreciated.

[msmcleod]

SI Bass's octave is different from GM synths like TTS-1... it also only responds to a limited range of notes.

Try transposing it up an octave.

[scook]

Assuming the notes are in the playable range of the instrument and the MIDI data is coming from a third party file, this is may be the solution

 

 

[brandon]

9 hours ago, msmcleod said:

SI Bass's octave is different from GM synths like TTS-1... it also only responds to a limited range of notes.

Try transposing it up an octave.

Interesting point. However the SI Bass works when I pluck it in stand-alone mode. Then once I 'link' it to my midi track I cant even get a sound out of it by plucking it which I would normally expect to do. 

[brandon]

9 hours ago, scook said:

Assuming the notes are in the playable range of the instrument and the MIDI data is coming from a third party file, this is may be the solution

 

 

Interesting Scook. The NRPN instructions is not checked. There are events though do i delete them all including 'bends'? And what effect might this have on the overall sound?

 

EDIT: Did you mean Event List by the way (you mentioned event viewer). And could I get away with leaving some information in as i have a similar project that plays the SI Bass and there is information in the event list.

Thanks

Edited November 14, 2020 by brandon

[Nigel Mackay]

Yes, Event View is Event List.

You need everything that is in the Event List. All of it. Except for NRPN events. So, click on View, make sure NRPN is ticked so that you see them if they are in the list. Ticked means, yes I want to see them, unticked means, no, don't show them, I am not interested in them at the moment.

If there are any NRPN events delete them. Delete nothing else.

You can even untick everything else, so that you only see NRPN events. Makes them easier to find.

When finished, tick everything again, for next time you look.

 

 

[brandon]

Hi - there are no NRPN events in the list. There are however RPN and Wheel events. Could these be causing the problem? There is only one event before the first note and that is an RPN event (pitch bend).

As an experiment I removed the RPNs  -the result was that there were now sounds being created but basically of a monotonous note and not much else.

 

[scook]

If it is a data problem, there are two ways to fix the problem

1. Clean up the Event List View and/or
2. Enable "Do not intercept NRPNs"

Either method works, do what is easiest for you

 

 

If it is a note range problem, transpose the notes.

[brandon]

Hi Scook - regarding points 1 & 2 above. There aren't any NRPNs in the event list and I have enabled 'Do not intercept NRPNs'. Also it doesnt appear to be a note range problem as all notes are within the playing range of the SI Bass. 

Having done some research this particular problem has cropped up quite a bit in the past and the solutions have worked for some and not for others.  It is obviously a data issue which conflicts with SI Bass as I have tried the midi file with a different type of softsynth and it works.

[sjoens]

Since you inserted SI Bass as a Simple Instrument with no MIDI source, try copying a MIDI clip into the SI Bass track and see if it will play.

Then try removing the SI Bass and inserting a new one. This time select MIDI Source and First Synth Audio Output. This will create a separate MIDI and Instrument track.

[brandon]

Thanks - I tried the above as well as creating 'First Synth Audio Output'  -and in doing so i linked the midi track to the SI Bass and when that didnt work i pasted the midi track into the SI Bass (First Synth Audio Output) track which also didnt work. Am starting to feel its an RPN issue either a pitch bend or wheel event of which there are a few.

[Nigel Mackay]

Save under a temp name and delete all events except notes.

If that works, do the other events type by type. Easy enough if you select only one type at a time in the View menu.

Depending on what happens, you can then look for the specific one which is the problem.

A pain, I know.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Nigel Mackay

[brandon]

I tried that earlier Nigel -the result was that there were now sounds being created but it was basically  monotonous note and not much else. A thought occurred to me. When Cakewalk loads up does it scan the midi tracks for messages like the old Cakewalk used to do? If so then it may be picking up the RPNs before the track is even played. 

[Nigel Mackay]

With a MID file there are autorun SysEx messages. Don't suppose they do run with a project file. There is a SysEx viewer if I remember correctly.

It seems if you remove all  non-note data that it doesn't crash. Delete one at a time to see when it stops crashing. ?

[user 905133]

Is this solved yet? 

I tried it the day it was first posted and got to the point that in order to get the Bass on Track 3 to make sound with SI Bass, I needed to double click on a bass program in the Program Browser after each time the sequence stopped. I just opened the *.cwp I saved and its the same thing--any time I stop/pause the transport and then I restart it, SI-Bass [Track 3, Midi Channel 2] makes no sound until I double click on a prog.

I did not send the sysex banks.  I did not see any NRPNs in Track 3. I did not look in every track for sysex or RPNs or NPRNs.  All track are pointing to TTS-1 except Track 3 [Fingr Bass].

Just did another test--while the song was playing (including the Track 3 bass part), I used the rewind button [and the FFwd button] and the bass part stopped sounding until I double clicked the prog in the Program Browser. 

I can't look under the hook, but as a lay observer, I am wondering if something having to do with chase is dislodging the preset/patch/program/sample. 100% speculation. I defer to others.  I don't think I can add anything else, but maybe my tests and observations point to something other than the prior comments suggest. 

Good luck with this.

 

UPDATE: At least with my version of the file and the observations I had, it was solved by getting rid of the PB Sens. RPN per scook's suggestion.  To confirm, I saved the file with that RPN deleted, even said OK to send the two sysex files and the SI-Bass played. Pausing/stopping & restarting + Rwd and FFwd do not silence the bass. 

Seems to me the transport observations pointed to something being resent. My "guess" is that the RPN in the Fingr Bass track at 1:02:032 caused the problem at start and every time the transport was used.

On 11/14/2020 at 7:58 AM, scook said:

If it is a data problem, there are two ways to fix the problem

1. Clean up the Event List View  . . . [emphasis added]

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by User 905133
(2) to replace the event list image after switching the display to Base Octave = 0; (1) to update a solution based on scook's suggestion

[Nigel Mackay]

Leaving that pitch-bend sensitivity out is fine, 256 = 2 semitones, which is the default value.

[brandon]

Good to hear User 905133.

I had to give up on it.  I ended up using the TTS1 Bass which to be honest probably suited my needs better. I will still try the SI Bass on future projects though to see if i can get to the bottom of this.

Thanks for everyone's input.