jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) SC I have done it before using windows file manager but not today so far. Is it possible to clear in sonar? Another thing I have trouble with is figuring out the audio file cleaning. I have filled a 3TB hard disk in a year and do not know the best way of deleting audio which is not needed any more. I am thinking I should save as a CWB file and then delete it with windows file manager? Either that or I just delete old projects completely to make space for new ones. Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, jade said: SC I have done it before using windows file manager but not today so far. Is it possible to clear in sonar? no 12 minutes ago, jade said: Another think I have trouble with is figuring out the audio file cleaning. I have filled a 3TB hard disk in a year and do not know how the best way of deleting audio which is not needed any more. I am thinking I should save as a CWB file and then delete it with windows file manager? I can't speak to the best way but I use "Save As" with "Copy all audio with project" enabled in the dialog. Assuming you are using per-project audio folders, all the audio referenced by the project is copied into the new project audio folder. Then I archive the old project to my backup system and delete the old project. Bundling is similar to "Save As" but must be unbundled before using. Rather than messing with bundling and unbundling I use "Save As." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) Thanks SC, I will do this in future: "I use "Save As" with "Copy all audio with project" Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, scook said: Thinking about this a little more... @Noel Borthwick given the default is 20 MB couldn't a 2 hour 8 track project fill up the cache? While I rarely work with large projects, I did recently have to edit audio for a video that ran a little over 3 hours. It was a single 48 kHz 24bit wav file and took 115 MB of cache. Not sure what "double the pic cache" actually means. I run a 500 MB cache. The default PicCache size is 500 MB not 20. Are you sure that a 3 hour project took 115MB for one wave file of that duration? My estimate was a too optimistic but a stereo 3 hour wave file at 24 bit 48Khz is about 3.1GB A pic cache file is approx 1.57% of the file size so that would make it about 51MB in size. So a 10 day recording of one file would yield a wave file of size 248GB and a pic cache size of under 4GB. PS I think the overview file can grow greater than 4Gb (it will turn into a Wave64 file under the hood) but we should verify that. As per new CbB versions we allow the pic cache to grow for that session beyond the max size but on next launch it will try deleting files to free space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, jade said: SC I have done it before using windows file manager but not today so far. Is it possible to clear in sonar? Another thing I have trouble with is figuring out the audio file cleaning. I have filled a 3TB hard disk in a year and do not know the best way of deleting audio which is not needed any more. I am thinking I should save as a CWB file and then delete it with windows file manager? Either that or I just delete old projects completely to make space for new ones. In CbB you can use clean audio disk which works very fast and flags unused audio files within the project folder (unlike SONAR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: The default PicCache size is 500 MB not 20. Sorry, I was going by the documentation 19 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: Are you sure that a 3 hour project took 115MB for one wave file of that duration? My estimate was a too optimistic but a stereo 3 hour wave file at 24 bit 48Khz is about 3.1GB A pic cache file is approx 1.57% of the file size so that would make it about 51MB in size. So a 10 day recording of one file would yield a wave file of size 248GB and a pic cache size of under 4GB. PS I think the overview file can grow greater than 4Gb (it will turn into a Wave64 file under the hood) but we should verify that. As per new CbB versions we allow the pic cache to grow for that session beyond the max size but on next launch it will try deleting files to free space. I should have looked data in detail. I scanned the cache for the clip names but forgot there were two attempts at creating the project and two clip in each project (original and processed). This resulted in 4 cache entries totaling 115 MB. The 2 audio clips in the final project were actually 48 kHz @ 16 bit or ~1.85 GB each. The individual wov files for the final project were 29.6 MB each. So the expected cache size corresponds to ~1.57% of the original clip size. A value I just learned about, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) In a 2 hour session we typically record eight 1GB 48KHz 24bit tracks using a TASCAM DP24SD recorder which I then import into Cakewalk. I stay at 48KHz 24bit at all times and use 64 bit processing. So I generate alot of data! I export as MP3 with 48KHz 16 bit Powr3 dithering. The MP3 uses LAME64 codec 48KHz 320kbits/s. That should be better than most music out there! Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) Does CbD come with MP3 native or will I need to add Lame codec to it also? Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 It uses the latest LAME encoder internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 Thats cool. I forgot how I integrated Lame into Sonar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, scook said: Sorry, I was going by the documentation @Morten Saether can fix that 8 minutes ago, scook said: I should have looked data in detail. The 2 audio clips in the final project were actually 48 kHz @ 16 bit or ~1.85 GB each. The individual wov files for the final project were 29.6 MB each. So the expected cache size corresponds to ~1.57% of the original clip size. A value I just learned about, thanks. That's sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) I deleted all picture data and reloaded my project above and I now have 22 picture files with 266MB of data. This is on my SSD C:drive. The audio folder is on my 3TB D drive which is currently 59 files and 151GB! Thats just this one 2 hour project.. Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 I'm not sure your aware of this but if you install CbB right now you can open your projects without a hick-up. I open old Sonar projects all the time and there's little difference other than I have to load my workspace so everything looks the way I like it now, not then. It's not a huge learning curve as the basics are still unchanged but boy is there a million great improvements been made since then. I highly recommend you take the plunge and without delay! I have recorded dozens of my bands live sets to 16 tracks directly into Cakewalk using my ancient Tascam us1641 and a 2008 Sony laptop. I'm at 44.1/24 and I never use that 64 bit engine thing as most seems to say it won't change your life. We generally played 3 one hour sets and I would save the project and load a new blank during our breaks. Because of the old laptop the wave forms were never close to being drawn when I saved. I would copy them over to my main DAW and those 1 hours files would draw up pretty fast as I was farting around getting things set up. Never had to wait for that really. And sorry about the miss information I only said graphic card issue because that's what someone here told me once something about video cache. One thing you could try is go back to the 32 bit engine and see if that speeds things up. If your only heading for MP3 there's no real reason to go overboard on the recording resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) Thanks John, I think I will give it a go. Also the 32bit res. thanks. Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) OK it looks like I had 32 bit driver and 64 bit double precision engine. Does the 64 bit engine mean file size on the hard disk is larger or is it just memory calculations? Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 As far as disk usage, the audio driver and engine settings do not matter. Record, render and import bit depths along with project sample rate affect file size. It is pretty easy to get a lot of extra files in the audio folder. Bounced and frozen tracks create copies of clips at the render bit depth. Deleted audio clips may no longer be referenced in the project but still exist on disk. The extra audio files should not affect wave drawing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) I have 24bit record and 64bit render. might have something to do with it I just changed render to 32bit. Edited November 7, 2020 by jade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 The "64 bit engine" option means that SONAR and CbB use 64 bits internally. That does double the amount of RAM used but does not affect file sizes. Of course, you can save your project as 64-bit files if you want, but nobody does. 32 bits is already overkill for amplitude granularity. As for recording, 24- vs. 32-bit makes no practical difference. If you choose the latter, it just means extra zeroes are appended to the data while recording, something that's going to eventually happen either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 One exception. There are some drivers with onboard mixing or dsp that expose inputs that are floating point. It makes sense for such drivers to offer 32 or 64 bit inputs because the signal chain is floating point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Ah, I did not know that. However, the driver's just tacking on some zeroes. What happens if Cakewalk's record wordlength is set to 24 bits even though the driver is offering up 32 bits? Wouldn't Cakewalk just strip off those added 8 bits and then put them back on? Or would the issue be a data type mismatch when calling the driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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