Concerns about Upgrading to 2020.05

[aleo]

I'm currently using v. 2020.01 on a Creation Station 450v6, i7, running Win. 10 Home and have some concerns about moving to 2020.05. 

Below are problems that seem to pop up randomly in some of the projects I am currently working on:  slider on one of the Console strips failed to follow the Volume envelope on Track 1, other sliders tracked envelopes fine, slider on Trk 1 was stuck at 0 db.   I returned to CbB after taking a one hour break and found Transport controls would not respond to w, r, or space bar on keyboard, clicking controls in Transport Module did work.  When using the arpeggiator, I was not able to stop it even after shutting off Latch and clicking Reset, had to close CbB.   Over the past three months I've experienced five crashes while using Dimension Pro as a plug-in.  All occurred when changing from one factory preset to another, problem appears to be random and not related to any particular preset.  These problems seem to indicate some instability in CbB, more so than I recall in the later versions of Sonar.

Under Preferences>Customization>Color, a number of the colors of various parts of the Track and Console view cannot be changed:  e.g. the Hardware Output field is fixed at a shade of blue, the Input fields remain green and can't be changed. and I wrote to Tech support over a year ago about this.  This feature used to work in Sonar X3.

I have several important projects that are now in the mixing stage, but I feel that I have to keep my fingers crossed each time I turn on my computer and begin a session with CbB.  Will 2020.05 correct any of the above problems?  BandLab offers a way to revert to older versions, but this is not progress.  Has v. 2020.5 been thoroughly tested?  Is there a way I can fix any of the problems described above or would it require re-installing the entire program?  I would appreciate any advice anyone out there in the community could offer.

Please advise.

Edited June 19, 2020 by aleo

[aleo]

I meant to write 2020.01 and 2020.05 in my feedback post.  Hope this didn't cause a lot of confusion.

[scook]

It would be better to deal with these issues one at a time in the main forum. Some may have nothing to do with CbB at all.

Have a problem specific to one project like the fader issue in track 1, send the project to support or see if one of the devs who frequent the forum will take a look at it. Usually they just need the cwp file.

Have crazy things happen after leaving the DAW unattended for an hour or so? Simple solution, don't do that. Just because you left the machine alone don't think for a minute the machine is idle. Or worse, don't put a PC to sleep while a DAW is running and expect it to wake up ready to go. If you are going to leave the machine unattended for any period of time, at a minimum, shut down the program.

Dimension Pro crashes. Plug-in crashes are the fault of the plug-in not the DAW. If you need help determining if the problem is a plug-in or the DAW send the dump to support. Here is how to report a crash

I have seen reports over the years by users saying DP crashed while browsing presets. While I have not experienced myself, there is probably not much that can be done about it. Cakewalk stopped updating the program 10 years ago and replaced it in their product line with Rapture Pro. That said, if you can keep track of what program crashes the plug-in, I may be able to help.

WRT, color customization in preferences, this was whacked when Cakewalk introduced the Skylight interface in X1 and progressively got worse with every release. As a result, Cakewalk added a theme editor with the later versions of SONAR. This handles image and color customization albeit not as easy as preferences. CbB also has a theme editor.

 

Regarding updates in general, if one is mid-project there is no rush to update.

In addition to rollback, there is a way to have more than one version of CbB available to run at a time.

[Noel Borthwick]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:45 PM, aleo said:

 

I have several important projects that are now in the mixing stage, but I feel that I have to keep my fingers crossed each time I turn on my computer and begin a session with CbB.  Will 2020.05 correct any of the above problems?  BandLab offers a way to revert to older versions, but this is not progress.  Has v. 2020.5 been thoroughly tested?  Is there a way I can fix any of the problems described above or would it require re-installing the entire program?  I would appreciate any advice anyone out there in the community could offer.

Please advise.

Have you taken a look at the release notes for the 05 release? We fix scores of issues every release (most of which are preexisting and some which are workarounds for problems not even directly caused by Cakewalk)  If you don't consider that progress I'm not sure what to say.
We are not aware of any of the issues you list. There is no way to know if they are fixed until you actually try running the latest release. If you have concrete ways to demonstrate them in the current release then log them specifically. If they are issues within our control we do our best to address them.

[aleo]

Scook,

Thanks so much for all the information.  Sending a copy of the cwp file to the Forum is an interesting idea.  I have submitted project files to Cakewalk support in the past, though lately they have been slow in responding--probably owing to covid19 pandemic.   

Yes, I've learned the hard way not to let Cakewalk run too long unattended.  If it can develop vexing little glitches in an hour or so, who knows?  By the end of the day it may become self-aware and decide to take over the world.? 

Wish you success in your creative projects.

 

[Josh Wolfer]

Aleo,

I myself and MANY others always update to the latest versions and I can say with certainty that they are always better than the previous version. I have come across minor issues in a new release, but upon reporting them, they are fixed in the very next release. And again, these are minor issues. 

I recommend updating to the latest version and then investigating further.

Hopes this helps in some way. I have never been happier with Cakewalk. I've been a Sonar user since 1.0. 

[aleo]

Josh,

Thanks for responding and your advice; your letter was very encouraging.  it may be that that some of the problems I've encountered have to do with my computer, the version of Win. 10 I'm using, or something in the program has become corrupted.  I intend to get back to Noel on this with more details about my system later today.

I go back with Cakewalk to the mid-nineties, ver. 7 I think.  Best of luck with your creative projects!

Edited June 22, 2020 by aleo
spelling

[aleo]

On 6/19/2020 at 3:45 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

Have you taken a look at the release notes for the 05 release? We fix scores of issues every release (most of which are preexisting and some which are workarounds for problems not even directly caused by Cakewalk)  If you don't consider that progress I'm not sure what to say.

Noel,

Good to hear from you; I've been wanting to talk with someone on the Staff.  I do read the Release Notes and I do appreciate the improvements stated in Features and Enhancements, and Optimization.  This is progress.  But, I also read Bug Fixes, about 65(!) in v. 2020.05.   This seems high for a program this far in its development.  They can't all be coming from the old Sonar Platinum program--hence, my concerns.  To help you understand my perspective, our company used to publish manuals.  We would try to ferret out all of the errors and typos, but the first printing would usually contain say 15 to 20 errors or typos.  By the second printing we could usually get the number down to  eight or ten, by the third maybe down to two or three.  Help me understand what's going on with Cakewalk.

The problems (there are three more that I did not list above) may be caused by something in my system.  Here are the specs:  

            Computer:  Creation Station 450 v6, i7 8700, 3.2 G.Hz., 32 MB RAM, 64 bit, with plenty of space left on both C and D drives.

            O.S.:  Windows 10 Home ver. 10.0.17134

             Screensaver -- always off,  Sleep Mode -- always off,  audio drivers:  ASIO,  almost all of my projects are run at 48 KHz., 24 bit.

This system was built and set up by Sweetwater to run Sonar X3 and it did so without any major problems.  If you see anything here that might cause a problem, please let me know and I'll get it fixed.  If you see anything here that could be changed or tweaked to optimize performance with CbB, please let me know and we'll get it done.

You suggest providing concrete evidence.  I would be happy to send a copy of my cwp file containing the problem to BandLab Tech Support (I did this once before), but since they will be running it on their computer will they be able to determine whether or not the problem is being caused by some part of my copy of CbB possibly being corrupted?

Finally, I gather from your post that you recommend that I proceed and upgrade to v. 05, is that correct?

[Jonathan Sasor]

54 minutes ago, aleo said:

Noel,

Good to hear from you; I've been wanting to talk with someone on the Staff.  I do read the Release Notes and I do appreciate the improvements stated in Features and Enhancements, and Optimization.  This is progress.  But, I also read Bug Fixes, about 65(!) in v. 2020.05.   This seems high for a program this far in its development.  They can't all be coming from the old Sonar Platinum program--hence, my concerns.  To help you understand my perspective, our company used to publish manuals.  We would try to ferret out all of the errors and typos, but the first printing would usually contain say 15 to 20 errors or typos.  By the second printing we could usually get the number down to  eight or ten, by the third maybe down to two or three.  Help me understand what's going on with Cakewalk.

The problems (there are three more that I did not list above) may be caused by something in my system.  Here are the specs:  

            Computer:  Creation Station 450 v6, i7 8700, 3.2 G.Hz., 32 MB RAM, 64 bit, with plenty of space left on both C and D drives.

            O.S.:  Windows 10 Home ver. 10.0.17134

             Screensaver -- always off,  Sleep Mode -- always off,  audio drivers:  ASIO,  almost all of my projects are run at 48 KHz., 24 bit.

This system was built and set up by Sweetwater to run Sonar X3 and it did so without any major problems.  If you see anything here that might cause a problem, please let me know and I'll get it fixed.  If you see anything here that could be changed or tweaked to optimize performance with CbB, please let me know and we'll get it done.

You suggest providing concrete evidence.  I would be happy to send a copy of my cwp file containing the problem to BandLab Tech Support (I did this once before), but since they will be running it on their computer will they be able to determine whether or not the problem is being caused by some part of my copy of CbB possibly being corrupted?

Finally, I gather from your post that you recommend that I proceed and upgrade to v. 05, is that correct?

Cakewalk is under active development, so it's not quite an apples to apples comparison to something in print. We continually fix bugs, and have added a major feature recently as well as numerous minor features since relaunching the app with BandLab. There's a lot of moving parts in a DAW configuration. The app is subject to how Windows updates work and the hardware behavior. That said, I can't see any reason for you to have any issues by upgrading to 2020.05. We now offer a rollback installer that will revert the app to the previous release version. If you wanted to go to from 2020.05 to 2020.01, you'd simply need to grab the 04 and 01 rollback installers, both of which are posted on the release info pages of the forum.  Or in the unlikely event of an issue in 2020.05, see if it exists in 2020.04. If there's a problem, we'll definitely investigate. 

[aleo]

Jonathan,

I appreciate your prompt response.  You didn't comment on my system so I'm assuming it is at least adequate.  Good.

You seem like an earnest fellow and the confidence in your product that you express is inspiring.  So...  we'll go ahead with the upgrade to 2020.05 within the next few days.  If all goes well I will announce it proudly in these pages.  If my computer blows up you owe me a beer.?

[Wookiee]

@aleo I would be impressed if you could find a piece of commercial software that is bug free. I used to do some CAD work the product was  a commercial CAD product it had a book shelf of known bugs, with about 20 volumes in it.

The only time I have been involved with bug free code was for a certain device that required it to be bomb proof, well you would not have wanted it to be any other way, software failure on a missile would be awkward?

 

[aleo]

Wookiee,

Good to hear from you.  I don't expect perfection in software, but in the spirit of W. Edwards Deming, it's a good target to aim for.

Best of luck with your creative projects!

 

[Starship Krupa]

As a former software QA engineer I have often said that if John Godfrey Saxe had lived to see the computer age he would have added software to the list of things, along with laws and sausages, that cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.

Having said that, I do hold respect for what the team that BandLab have assembled are up to with Cakewalk. They have demonstrated a commitment to quality over the years that they have had stewardship of the program. They don't like it when it doesn't work right and take steps quickly to fix it, and you can't ask for much more than that. Our personal prioritization of "works right" may not always agree with the development team's but at least when it comes to crash-y bugs, they are on top of it.

[aleo]

Erik,

Good to hear from you.  I enjoyed reading your reference to JGS.  I upgraded to v. 2020.05 about two weeks ago and everything is running nicely on my system, so far.  Hoping to get the stems recorded for the last two pieces on our up coming album.

Best of luck with your creative projects!

 

 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

Never come across any of the issues mentioned in the OP,  and I'm on 2020.05 ( Build 039 64bit )  with Win 10 Home V. 1909 OS build 18363.900.  Just an off the shelf PC, not a purpose built DAW machine.

Maybe format the whole machine and do a clean install of everything.

[Noel Borthwick]

On 6/23/2020 at 2:56 PM, aleo said:

Noel,

Good to hear from you; I've been wanting to talk with someone on the Staff.  I do read the Release Notes and I do appreciate the improvements stated in Features and Enhancements, and Optimization.  This is progress.  But, I also read Bug Fixes, about 65(!) in v. 2020.05.   This seems high for a program this far in its development.  They can't all be coming from the old Sonar Platinum program--hence, my concerns.  To help you understand my perspective, our company used to publish manuals.  We would try to ferret out all of the errors and typos, but the first printing would usually contain say 15 to 20 errors or typos.  By the second printing we could usually get the number down to  eight or ten, by the third maybe down to two or three.  Help me understand what's going on with Cakewalk.

The problems (there are three more that I did not list above) may be caused by something in my system.  Here are the specs:  

            Computer:  Creation Station 450 v6, i7 8700, 3.2 G.Hz., 32 MB RAM, 64 bit, with plenty of space left on both C and D drives.

            O.S.:  Windows 10 Home ver. 10.0.17134

             Screensaver -- always off,  Sleep Mode -- always off,  audio drivers:  ASIO,  almost all of my projects are run at 48 KHz., 24 bit.

This system was built and set up by Sweetwater to run Sonar X3 and it did so without any major problems.  If you see anything here that might cause a problem, please let me know and I'll get it fixed.  If you see anything here that could be changed or tweaked to optimize performance with CbB, please let me know and we'll get it done.

You suggest providing concrete evidence.  I would be happy to send a copy of my cwp file containing the problem to BandLab Tech Support (I did this once before), but since they will be running it on their computer will they be able to determine whether or not the problem is being caused by some part of my copy of CbB possibly being corrupted?

Finally, I gather from your post that you recommend that I proceed and upgrade to v. 05, is that correct?

Your analogy to print has no bearing on software development. Any piece of software this size has bugs. In its broadest definition a bug is an unintended behavior of the app.   Many issues in a DAW running plugins are caused by bugs in the plugins or third party components so its not always straightforward to determine root cause. Hence we need dump files and the actual projects.
And to answer your question I would say that 90% of the issues we fix are preexisting so yes they did exist in SONAR. CbB is vastly improved and more stable than SONAR ever was and it gets better every month since we are have been committed to aggressively fixing problems. Seeing a long fix list of bugs is a good thing for any software. Would you prefer that we don't list our fixes?