Problems with Duplicate Clip and Snap "By"

[GreenLight]

I have some problems with the new Duplicate Clip feature, when it comes to duplicating clips containing notes (drum hits in this case) that do not start at beat 1 in a measure. The notes are duplicated as if snap is set to To and not By. But if I first extend the clip to the start of the measure the empty space in the beginning is kept. But isn't the point that you shouldn't have to do that, if you have enabled "Use Current Snap Settings on Duplicate Selected Clip(s)" and snap set to "By" (and "Whole")?

Copying notes/clips using drag & drop respects the snap to and by setting as I expect, which is why I believe Duplicate Clip behaves "wrong".

I need help to understand if I have the wrong expectations or if the duplicate clip feature could be improved...

Pre-requisites

• I have "Use Current Snap Settings on Duplicate Selected Clip(s)" enabled.
• I have Snap set to "By" and "Whole".
• I am using Cakewalk 2019.09 (build 70)

Steps

1. I create a simple two measure snare pattern on beats 2 & 4.
   
    
2. I select the notes (by either clicking the clip in clip view or by right-click dragging around the notes in the PRV).
   Key observation: The selection does not extend to the beginning nor the end of the measures.
   
    
3. I duplicate the clip with CTRL + D.
    
4. The duplicated snare hits start at beats 1 & 3.
   Important note: Having snap set to TO actually produces the same result.
   
    
5. Expected result:
   Snare hits should be duplicated BY a whole measure, putting hits at beats 2 & 4.
   
   

Note that this is how snap by works with drag & drop and shouldn't Duplicate Clip also do that?

Thanks!

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by GreenLight
Added info about Cakewalk version in use

[chuckebaby]

Try selecting the whole measure instead of just the notes. Cakewalk doesn't really understand what you want it to do, in this case you need to tell it to select the whole measure not just the notes themselves.

Select the whole measure first, then try duplicate clip.

[GreenLight]

@chuckebaby Thanks for chiming in! Ah, you're right, selecting the entire measure works. (I actually think I did that at some point, but forgot about it.)

But still, I would say it's basically a bug since snap settings are not working as expected. Snap To and By both work as To. 

I'm gonna test how it works in Live and report back.

Edited January 2, 2020 by GreenLight
Spelling! :)

[GreenLight]

I gave it some more thought:

2 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

Try selecting the whole measure instead of just the notes. Cakewalk doesn't really understand what you want it to do, in this case you need to tell it to select the whole measure not just the notes themselves.

Hm, I actually disagree, I have told Cakewalk what I want it to do: I want to duplicate and I have snap set to By and Measure, hence: duplicate the selected notes By a Measure.

[chuckebaby]

See if this works, Try using...

  Edit > Preferences > Customization - Editing and select Use Current Snap Settings on Duplicate Selected Clips.

Sorry never mind, re-read your OP, you tried that

Edited January 2, 2020 by chuckebaby

[chuckebaby]

Have a look here, sorry if you've already read it

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=NewFeatures.10.html

I work a lot in the piano roll but I use the track view for copy/paste selections. In the PRV, things are zoomed in closer for detailed precise work, thus the track view is a great place to copy/paste because there is more viewing room.

I don't expect you to work like I do, im just saying I find the duplicate clip feature useful in its current format because I can highlight exactly what I want to duplicate. Audio is different, there is data at blank spots (nothing present) midi is not, if there is no midi note, the clip ends abrupt according to the last note entry.

[David Baay]

I agree Duplicate Clip should respect the To/By snap setting.  It doesn't work as expected in the Track View with a whole clip (audio or MIDI) selected, either - always snaps to the grid.

[chuckebaby]

I believe Duplicate clips was built on the existing "Paint tool" settings as its almost identical in the way it works (snap wise).

Selecting whole clips (that span a whole measure) works here.

[chris.r]

My midi clips rarely span the whole measure and almost never start at the beginning of the measure, so I'm typically using Snap By. Now I see why Paint tool never worked for me (always snapped to the beginning of measure braking the flow) and Duplicate wouldn't work as well in that case.

[David Baay]

2 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

Selecting whole clips (that span a whole measure) works here.

Yes that works because there's no difference between To and By in that case. I meant whole clips in the Track View that don't start on a measure as opposed to selecting individual notes in the PRV.

 

[GreenLight]

20 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

Have a look here, sorry if you've already read it

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=NewFeatures.10.html

Thanks for all your input, @chuckebaby, much appreciated! Yes, I've read the documentation. It gives me the expectation that Snap settings, including To/By, should be followed.

20 hours ago, chuckebaby said:

I don't expect you to work like I do, im just saying I find the duplicate clip feature useful in its current format because I can highlight exactly what I want to duplicate. Audio is different, there is data at blank spots (nothing present) midi is not, if there is no midi note, the clip ends abrupt according to the last note entry.

I agree with you, and I don't think that your workflow would be negatively impacted if Duplicate Clip respected Snap By.

[GreenLight]

14 hours ago, David Baay said:

Yes that works because there's no difference between To and By in that case. I meant whole clips in the Track View that don't start on a measure as opposed to selecting individual notes in the PRV.

My point exactly, @David Baay!

@Noel Borthwick Any chance you guys could consider making Duplicate Selected Clip(s) respecting Snap By? (See my first post in this thread for an explanation with images.) You would not risk degrading any existing users' workflows, since Snap By gives the same results as Snap To, currently. You would just increase the usability of the feature. It would make especially drum programming a lot faster, and I'm not alone in my request!

For me, the whole point with a Duplicate Clip function is that it should be quick to use and "just work", and require a minimum of settings adjustments and selections beforehand. Having snap set to Whole and By would cover most of my duplication situations.  (It would even work when programming bassdrums, that start on beat 1.)