Tez

I think I've narrowed the issue a little . For a completely blank new project, no buses, no tracks, no vsts, the template generates all the buses present when initially saved. For my 5.1 speakers, using WASAPI exclusive, this was set to 3 hardware stereo outs, but the template in this case only shows the 1st hardware out, which maybe an old issue. For a new project template that has some of the buses included in the track template the existing buses will persist. Saving the template without the existing new project's buses and inserting it into new blank project as described in the OP, half the time there is no issue, the behavior is as expected, but sporadically it will shutdown cakewalk on project close. It seems there's a conflict with a new project's existing buses and the track template's version of the same, and probably something more. So, I think this is a bug...

@Base 57 I'm not surprised you couldn't duplicate 2 & 3, it probably depends on the track template in my case the synth was pianoteq, the FX Ozone 7 and the audio out generates 3 buses, an input bus, a verb bus which uses Rematrix in the ProChannel and mix bus for the input & verb which sends to the pre-master. I also have a template that just generates the 3 buses mentioned using a blank audio track in the track pane, and guess what... Scenarios 2 & 3 don't happen. So, I'm speculating that it's an issue with how the FX and synth instances are being handled in the specific context in the OP. Now using the blank audio track bus template and independently inserting Pionoteq and the FX , for each new untitled project, scenarios 2 & 3 don't happen. Whatever's going on must be complicated ? ... Update: It seems the issue resides with the track template used in the OP, namely just creating a new blank project as before an inserting the track template in question, on closing the untitled project without saving also closes Cakewalk, this should not happen, typically the Start Screen should be invoked. So now I'm really confused ?...

I have a blank project template with an empty track pane and 2 buses, a pre-master with a send to the master which has all the sends to the hardware outs. Scenario 1. Create a new blank project, and immediately create a second new blank project. The window tab only shows the last blank project. An addition to the track pane of a project has to be made for a subsequent new project to appear in the window tab. Scenario 2. I have a vst3 synth track template, Midi source, Synth track folder and 1st audio out to a specific bus configuration and an audio FX in the rack. Create a new blank project, and insert the track template, create a second new blank project and insert the same track template. Close the first new project without saving and the Cakewalk app closes. Scenario3 Create new projects as per Scenario 2, and for each perform a “Save as” so now these are no longer untitled projects. Close the first project and the Cakewalk app closes. Last, since the projects were saved opening each one in the same cakewalk session, the behavior is as expected, namely closing one of them does not terminate Cakewalk and the other remains. This all seems a bit buggy to me...

Make sure you delete the synths and the associated tracks from the Synth Rack view, then try, "Save As..." from the File Menu, and choose a different name, then close the project and open the newly named project. If the problem persists it maybe you don't have full administrator privileges, then try launching Cakewalk as an administrator, and see if that's the issue, on saving your modified project. These are just suggestions of things to try, otherwise it doesn't sound like a CbB issue perse...

Silly question... Did you save the project before closing it?

@Base 57 Agreed, the Aux tracks need to be selected as they're just audio tracks with an aux input patch point, but the bus does not need to be selected. Since buses can be abandoned in favor of Aux tracks, it's tempting to think of them in the same way ?... This also applies to a generated Aux track as it's an audio, just as initially described for the audio track in my OP...

I concur, Project Templates under WASAPI so far hold their assignments as saved. With Track Templates, in addition to my OP, it should be noted that if the saved template has sends assigned to Aux Tracks, which are not present in the project these Aux tracks do not get generated, maybe this is to be expected as they are not buses, but if so why not? With regard to Aux tracks, if a project a track has a send assigned to to Aux track, and the given Aux track is renamed, this is not automatically reflected in the sending track, but the actual assignment still persists. Just another quirk, this doesn't happen for bus assignments, which always match the bus name.

Under WASAPI with multiple stereo hardware outs there are 4 selectable options from 1/2 to 7/8. The simplest scenario for odd track template behavior is to create an Audio track with the primary out assigned to 1/2, insert a send assigned to 3/4, and save the track as a track template. In a fresh project insert the track template previously saved and the “send” is not present as saved, just the primary out. Further, if the previous assignments were 3/4 for the primary and 1/2 for the send, not only is the send eliminated on the track template insert, the primary defaults back to 1/2. Similarly, if multiple sends to hardware outs were inserted, they would be eliminated. If there’s a “master bus” already in the project with just a primary assigned to 1/2, I observed the template track primary defaulting to the “master bus”. The above is just one case of track template functionality not as you would expect. In the case were a track template ought to generate buses and these buses send to hardware outs, there are additional problems which arise, with the generated buses. This probably should be checked out. If bus and aux track generation is not guaranteed for a track template when not already present in a project this should clarified.

Here is some very basic info for my system: OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz, 4008 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 2.6.1, 5/23/2019 SMBIOS Version 2.8 Embedded Controller Version 255.255 BIOS Mode UEFI Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB Page File Space 4.75 GB System Disk: SSD, Data 1.86TB not SSD used for all CbB content & projects & most VSTs & VSTis... Video Card: Name NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 PNP Device ID PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1401&SUBSYS_113810DE&REV_A1\4&89A4674&0&0008 Adapter Type GeForce GTX 960, NVIDIA compatible Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 Adapter RAM (2,147,483,648) bytes Installed Drivers ...\nvldumdx.dll Driver Version 26.21.14.4112 So it should be OK for the stuff I do, just to keep me sane, and doubtless not quite up to your musical expertise, to say more modesty forbids ? I hope you'll get your studio up & running soon... I'm optimistic at this point that WASAPI will fix my glitches, so thanks for prodding me to use it! ?

Well Mr @John Vere ... Unlike you I don’t do guitar & banjo live recordings, I’m midi oriented. As previously mentioned, Realtek asio sucks, the only other I have available is the FL Studio asio driver, which on my standalones offers 2 stereo outs (L&R) that work & I need 6, and never got it to work in CbB, so WASAPI would the only alternative to MME. I’ve got a chunk of old projects setup for 44.1 kHz, and a single Realtek stereo out redistributes to the 5.1 setup under MME as per my Dell audio settings. Under WASAPI I tried the shared mode, a test vst wouldn’t work without crackling, upped the sample rate to 48 kHz it seemed to work. Closed CbB without saving the project to reopen with the new audio settings no sound, reset the sample rate to 44.1 kHz still no sound, switched back to 48 no luck. Switched to exclusive mode which forced the rate to 44.1 kHz and it worked. Then switched the mode back to shared & it still worked. So, any new project has to be in exclusive mode at 44.1 kHz or vsts crackle or just don’t sound, and then temporarily switch to shared mode if required. So, way back when running into this mess without resolving it, maybe you can see why I stuck with MME. Any idea what’s going on? Anyhoo... Will set up the additional sends and see if WASAPI fixes these pesky audio dropouts, not mention the unprovoked render cancelations! Oh and I guess that selecting WASAPI exclusive mode forced the rate to 44.1 kHz, because the Dell audio config is set to that value, but for shared mode, and CbB uses it for exclusive regardless... ?

@John Vere Well, thanks for your comments, but just out of curiosity with your use of WASAPI for on board audio, what's your speaker configuration? Oh and what WASAPI mode?

@Jonathan Sasor Thanks for the response, but it's not predictable, it happens sporadically on different projects. The audio device is "Speakers/ Headphones(Realtek Audio)", horrible I know, using MME (32 bit), other diver options don't seem to work to well with realtek, and realtek asio sucks bilge water... The only commonality I can think of vst-wise is there tends to be an instance of Rapture pro in a project, and it maybe it happens that the unprovoked cancellation on a render will be the only issue. Rapture pro will crash a project very occasionally on an initial load with an access violation, so there may be outdated pointers hanging around. Also Audio Dropout (1), can happen when nothing is going on, except a simple gesture in the track pane... Don't know if the latter is due to constant streaming to FX vsts, if I've understood correctly , and in this case any advice would be welcome.

On a simple note sampling project with a synth stereo output and midi a track consisting of single notes, and a limiter in the stereo output track the following weirdness happens: 1. On first load of the project, a bounce to tracks for a single note immediately causes the Audio Dropout (0) toast, but regardless renders the bounce. Since this can happen repeatedly, I close and reopen the project and this then no longer happens. 2. On an extended bounce to tracks for a single track occasionally a Cancellation notification pops up asking if the partial render should be saved. Here the issue is that no cancellation was initiated manually! Incidentally this can also happen with other projects. As for the Audio Dropout (0), this can happen when nothing is going on, except a simple gesture in the track pane such as expanding a track or a folder! These sporadic Dropout (0)s are to say the least PITA... Any ideas, would be welcome...

Your welcome ?... I read the doc & checked the dll which were in agreement, so I was just hoping what you said was true viz 2019.11, and regarding 2019.11, I just ran a project using 2019.11 and the current CW130Auto.dll. The project has automated volume and send levels for a number of stereo output tracks and as far as my ear could tell they functioned the same way as running the project using 2020.05. If this type of automation was affected after the 2019.09 change for prior versions, maybe the current CW130Auto.dll will suffice for all versions from 2019.09 going forward? Ya nevah know ?

Just to be sure, the Launchpad sub folder contains the bucwa.dll which I believe is a renamed 2019.07 version of the CW130Auto.dll, and this dll supports all CbBs up to and including CbB 2019.11? If so that's great as it means I can still run the bulk of my save saved cores if the need arises! Hopefully the current dll will support the remainder. Once again thanks for all the info!

@scook Thanks for the info... I assume then that since splat still runs fine that it's using CW120Auto.dll? Anyway to easily get hold of the prior CW130Auto.dlls? I'm guessing from the Launchpad doc, that Launchpad only stores them going forward from 1st use with the currently installed version of CbB. Does this mean that an older version of CbB will result in automation failure if run using the current version of CW130Auto.dll? Or is it backward compatible?

@scook What was the change and the "extra dll" you refer to? I confess I was unaware parallel renamed versions no longer worked, not having to fallback. What would be the damage if you ran as before a renamed prior version ? Thanks T...

Plus take a look at this post

I have both Splats installed (32 & 64 bit), the 32 bit for some older projects that don’t play nice with CbB. I just have the Melodyne Essentials, and on the upgrade to Melodyne 5 the VST2s and all the 32 bit VSTs get removed which kills Melodyne 4 in Splat32. If like me you want to preserve Melodyne 4 in Splat32 and the VST3 is sufficient for this, plus there’s no chance it will affect CbB or Splat64, then do the following: 1. BEFORE installing Melodyne 5 make a copy of the " ... Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3\ Celemony" folder and contents. Note: all the " ...Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Celemony\Bundles" are left intact which includes the MelodyneCore-4.2.4.001.dll. 2. Install Melodyne 5. 3. Place the saved copy of the Celemony folder where you locate your 32 bit VST3s, and Splat32 still has a usable version of Melodyne... I have independent VST3 folders in addition to the default “Common Files\VST3” for various plugins, in this case you might want to do the same.

FYI: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026331/microsoft-edge-change-the-downloads-folder-location

On w10 with Firefox 77.0, with the general setting for Downloads set to "Always ask you where to save files", on a download you are presented with an option to save, checking that opens the windows save popup with a folder location in the location bar. What I do is before downloading is open the folder where I want to save the download, click the icon on the location bar which switches the format to a highlighted file format, copy the location, ctrl + c. On the download in the windows save popup click the icon on the location bar which switches the format to a highlighted file format and paste, ctrl + v, pasting the prior chosen location in the location bar, click the "Go to" arrow and save, voilà!

When selecting the "Download" option for a manual install I assume you saved the "bandlab-assistant-windows-latest.exe". Then right-click the exec and "Run as Administrator". The .exe should be the same as the one posted on the website. This is what I do , click ok to close Bandlab Assistant, and the install succeeds...

Mark, I'm on w10 the import for O7 & O9 just pops up the windows file selection popup, no check box is here as it's not a custom popup... Ho Hum.. Just dawned on me, I'm referring to the Ozone standalone ozone projects .ozn files that has the issue when closed without saving the project. I think you must be referring to CbB projects?

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=EditingMIDI.01.html You can add CC controls in the PRV...

@FullStop It's per Project: Project>Midi>Zero Controllers When Play Stops Just uncheck...