Cristiano Sadun

I've been using CW for ages with a rock solid RME PCI setup. Lately I've moved and I haven't set up yet for the outboard and the 18 channels of I/O that were needed for them before. So for the moment I've set up one pc as all-in-the-box setup with one of my USB interfaces, an old UAD Apollo Twin mk I - which so far has been working just fine for non-production tasks. Today I thought of making a demo and opened Cakewalk. What I experience is that playback works fine, but when the transport stops, the software hangs for several seconds. This happens also for a very minimal project with just EZ drummer loaded up in an instrument track and nothing else. Some facts: Cakewalk version is 2024.07 (not the most recent update, but fairly recent) The UAD driver/console/plugins version is also recent (11.5.0 10-03-2024 build 173918) I'm using the ASIO driver (but the behavior is the same with wasapi ex for example). The RME PCI card is still in the pc, but the RME DSP driver is not loaded in Windows (regardless the Twin uses USB) The same PC with Cakewalk was running perfectly with the RME PCI interface. I've assembled this setup in a bit of a hurry so I'm not positive the Twin is connected to a USB3.0 port but it shouldn't really matter as 3.0 only gives more bandwidth and I've just one track. It does not matter if the playback stops because I push the "stop" button or because CW reaches the end of the track - the hang always happens CW does not crash - it simply hangs. Is I've not used this particular PC with a USB interfaces before (other than as a platform to run UAD plugins), but I've used other pcs with various USB interfaces I own, and never seen this kind of issue. Any ideas? Also a couple of specific questions: Does this kind of "hang for a while after playback" sound familiar to someone? Is there any parameter in the configuration file that's worth looking at tweaking? My current AUD.INI looks like this (after a reset) [Universal Audio USB (11 in, 5 out)] InputLatencyOffset=0 UseAsioReportedLatency=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveOut1=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveOut2=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveOut3=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveOut4=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveOut5=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn1=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn2=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn3=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn4=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn5=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn6=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn7=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn8=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn9=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn10=1 MME.DriverMap.UseWaveIn11=1 [Aud] DataDir=C:\Cakewalk Projects\Audio Data PictureDir=C:\Cakewalk Projects\Picture Cache [Wave] DefaultSampleRate=44100 DriverID=0 WaveInID=0 OpenInputFirst=0 SmpteMode=1 TimingOffsetMsec=0.000000 TimingOffsetBuffers=0 LatencyMsec=23.219955 BounceBufSizeMsec=0 AlwaysStreamAudioThroughFx=1 MaxInputChannels=16 MaxOutputChannels=16 ThreadSchedulingModel=1 TransDetectorModel=2 TransDetectorUpgraded=1 EnableMixThreads=1 MixThreadCount=0 EnableSetThreadIdealProcessor=1 EnablePluginLoadBalancing=0 MinPluginLoadBalancingBufferSamples=128 CSUseSpin=1 AllowOfflineRenderMixThreads=1 UseMMCSS=1 EnableMMCSSforASIO=0 MMCSSThreadPriority=2 MMCSSTaskKey=Pro Audio FreeMemOnUnload=1 AlwaysOpenAllDevices=0 MinimizeDriverStateChanges=1 RemoveDCOffset=0 EnableAsioBufferSwitchTimeInfo=1 EnableDeviceOutputLatencyCompensation=1 UseHardwareSamplePosition=1 BitsPerSample=24 FileBitDepth=16 RenderBitDepth=32 ImportBitDepth=0 ExtraPluginBufs=0 MixDezipperUsec=50 GapDezipperUsec=500 WaveInBuffers=8 WaveOutBuffersMME=4 WaveOutBuffersKS=2 MeterFrameSizeMS=40 SyncMaxDriftMsec=2 SyncDivisor=8 ProfiledMME=0 ProfiledKS=0 ProfiledWASAPI=0 UseWDMDmaForWASAPI=1 LinkSendPan=0 LinkPFSendMute=0 StopOnEmptyPlayQueue=0 KsUseInputEvent=0 WaveOutExtraBuffers=1 AutomationDecimationMsec=5 EnableSSEMixing=1 ThumbnailCacheSize=100 EnableLiveADCRecalc=1 UseAlias=0 DropoutMsec=250 MaskDropoutDetection=0 StartFadeMsec=0 StopFadeMsec=0 PanLaw=0 PanLawCompatMode=0 DisableIMDuringPlay=0 ShowMultiChannelInputs=1 ShowMultiChannelOutputs=1 MaxPreviewMsec=300000 EnableWasapiDSP=1 RestartEngineAfterDropout=1 [SampleRates] Count=11 0=8000 1=11025 2=22050 3=44100 4=48000 5=88200 6=96000 7=176400 8=192000 9=352800 10=384000

Just in case it helps. Haven't read the full thread so not sure if this has been solved already, but it was happening to me as well (so I came reading here). Turns out that I had a Chrome already opened, and CW Help->Sign in after the update wasn't doing anything. I closed the browser, restarted CW and Help->Sign in brought me to the login page and I could activate.

Same experience, unfortunately, both the synth sticking and the occasional crash in freezing are still there. One more thing I've noticed- I needed to focus on an individual note so I did what I normally do - mark it so to loop over it -and surprisingly this also crashed the project the hard way. The section was less than a second and it seems like CW struggles to reset the FX repeatedly in such a short time. (As a note, the "hard way" is the one when attempting playback there's a series of distortion clicks but no sound, and the project cannot be recovered no matter what. Disabling all FX brings the sound back, but when re-enabling them the project still does not work. Short of deleting all FX and restarting, the only solution is to discard and reload it from a recent copy. The most classic plugin causing that type of failure when used in in CbB used to be VX-64 Vocal Strip from Sonar times... I dont know if it's been fixed since but I stopped using as it was randomly corrupting the entire project). Now it can well be that this loop issue it's unrelated - this project has several synths, 60+ plugins and the machine running it is not super powerful, and of course it could be a rogue plugin. I mention it only in case it rings a bell, something seems a little off in the FX insert chain or with VST3s in general. I think I'm using all stereo FX, if it means something. Cheers!

Thank you! Done, let's see how things go. Much appreciated! -Cris

Two glitches that have appeared - not sure if they are related to the last update, as I've been guest in another studio and haven't worked on Cakewalk for a few months, but here they are: Freezing occasionally causes CW to crash and exit with no warning. This happens both for audio tracks and VST instrument tracks. It seems to happen only when the session has been played a few times (i.e. all the plugins have been exercised), while if I just open the project and begin freezing, all is generally well. Normally I would chalk it down to some bad plugin effect, but in this project I've used the usual mix of effects that I always use, with one exception (the Vital VST instrument below) - but the crash happens when attempting to freeze completely unrelated tracks too. I write this after reading (in the CW Facebook group) that other people have had similar sudden exit crashes when freezing. On some VST instruments, if playback is stopped while the instrument is playing, the currently note is occasionally "latched" on and keeps playing uninterruptedly , and I have to open the instrument interface and explicitly click the virtual keyboard to stop it (even as the transport is in "stop"). This seems quite random and happens with the Vital VST above - a synth that I recently installed and used in this project. I was putting it down to a bug in this specific synth but then I read on the CW Facebook group that other people were having the same issue with synths they'd used far longer. None of this is a showstopper - more a show-slower once you know it and take care of saving before any freeze attempt, and to make sure the instrument is not playing when you export - but if you guys have worked on the FX chain for plugins, maybe something has gone wrong there? Just guessing. Thanks!

Matt, the challenge with these kinds of warnings - and the reason sometimes they are met with a little hard looks - is that 99% of the cases the problem is user error. To a little more experienced people, it feels a bit like someone driving a car with a manual gearbox, shifting gears without using the clutch, breaking the gearbox and then warning not to use the car because it destroys gears. It may well not be your case: but the way you framed the issue - without any detail, without a hint that you actually are experienced in the software you are using, mixing up two completely different software (a pro-level DAW and a casual-music making web application) suggested an "arrogant beginner" (again, not necessarily true, but the impression you gave). That does not warrant hostility, of course - but might explains why more experienced people (who has seen many arrogant beginners) to be a little more curt than it would be nice. This is the wrong forum for issues related to the Bandlab webapp, but if you find the right forum and provide some details on what happened and asking what you might have done wrong, you will certainly find people that will give you suggestions. It's one of the ways of learning. It won't help for the project you have already lost, but it may prevent you from losing more - regardless of what software you decide to use.

Just to give you a heads up, nothing to sweat here. It's fairly common in any production with overdubs that a little bit of leakage is present in mics which may be near to the headphones.. heck, there's artists (and studios) which overdub vocals singing over speakers, inverting the polarity of one of the two and positioning the mics so that the null(s) minimize the leak.. which still ends up being far more substantial of what you hear from headphones. Many people sing with only one cup of the headphones on - and then it's leak galore... In normal circumstances, it's doesn't do any particular harm (so long the leak is reasonably low) - unless you really want to change the backing completely... but then if you do, you'll want to re-record the vocal line as well. Use good isolating headphones and enough level for the singer to be comfortable with pitching and following the pitch, and you'll be fine. If you want, you can ask the artist to place his/her hands on the cups and push them towards the head a little when singing, which seals them even more and makes the leakage almost zero. Many pro artists have learnt to do that in the studio (but then again, many others don't use headphones at all when overdubbing).

OMG there is a tempo envelope? Magnificent! ???

Every time I go back doing something in C++ (last week, it'd been a year since last time) I'm stumped on how the language makes even the simplest thing so incredibly complex and error-prone. What seemed so good in 1992 definitely no longer does! Bit like tape Still fast as hell though, so occasionally worth it.

Well was worth a try! Incidentally, I use the SSLs as well (just got 'em a couple months ago when they were on offer) and they work just fine, so yes, gotta be something specific to your system. Hard to say what. Maybe checking the Event Viewer can give some hints of possible malfunctions?

Well, interpolating points with different type of curves is a basic mathematical skill that's been translated into several different, efficient, algorithms a long time ago. The hardest bit would be to find a GUI design that allows the user to pick up the points and the curve he thinks fit better in a smooth and effective way.

Don't we all? If the plugin look loaded and active and the FX bin is active, it's quite odd and it points to something fundamentally wrong with your computer/setup or the project is corrupted. If they look grayed, then they aren't loaded and there's a number of reasons for which that may happen on your system.

Very often these bizarre kind of issues are due to graphics drivers. Have u tried to see if there's an update for your graphic card?

Trying costs little, but I wouldn't be overly optimistic. A proper VM virtualizes everything, including memory addresses, and adds additional scheduling between the various instances of VMs running on the same physical hardware and while some of the translations happen in hardware, it's definitely not conductive to activities requiring continuous realtime performance. Of course for a sufficiently fast architecture it might work at some point, but it would be costly and inefficient. That said, while I have a few different PCs for different rooms, I run the DAW in my main general purpose PC (or vice-versa ), and have been doing that for many years without any issue. The trick is to keep the PC "clean" and optimized, understand what steals realtime capabilities (especially when one installs software) and of course know how to fix issues if/when they arise. So a bit depends on your specific knowledge and skills with computers. As an example, some months ago, when I installed Teams for working with a different business, I did not realize that the wretched thing automatically enrolled my own computer in that business' InTune system.. (due to a bad default by Microsoft, the InTune admins have to explicitly disable enrolling of any computer which access the infrastructure, and mostly don't know so they don't.. with the result that anyone which connects to the organization with Teams get silently enrolled). The results were... funny, and it took a good couple of hours to understand what the problem was and reverse it.

+1 Any real-word mix has a lot of sends and the current way of selecting them when they're more than a few is very inefficient. Reorganizing a bit would definitely be a major improvement.

+1 on the multi column menu. I too don't want anything on the screen that it's not Inspector or tracks so never have browser or anything up. I use the per-manufacturer layout as I know what I want (just like I do with my outboard) but certain manufacturers (UAD, I'm looking at you but you're not alone) add everthying even if I have not or never will purchase it and it's pain in the bottom with a long list. I'm in the insert panel, I want to insert something so a menu is great. At least the current menu allows to use keys to jump to the effect first letter which eases the annoyance a little, but unfortunately all the UAD plugins start with.. U

Yeah, was just kidding. My location rig is usually a couple channels of DSP interface (currently a UR28M) so that I can give confort reverb to singers when needed, a few mics I think will work on the session and an old laptop with Cakewalk. For drums in special places, I use either an old Alesis USB 16 mkII with its 8 preamps and a couple of external pres. Either case, the biggest items are the mic stands

That your location recording rig? I don't dare think of your studio installation! ? ?

Nah - or better you could, but it'd be pointless and a lot of work for no particular reason. If you really want to concern yourself with LUFS (that's really not a big deal at all, check my post at https://www.theaudioblog.org/post/average-lufs-are-irrelevant), just place your LUFS meter at then end and lower the master fader until you get what you want. But keep in mind (as of the post above) your main problem can be only if the mix is too quiet, not too loud - because some services do not implement gain-up, just gain-down. The "reduces the volume a lot" is only because your playback levels are set to listen to CD-mastered music. which peaks at 0dBFS. Turn on the playback volume knob

Good idea, will try. Thanks!

Hi, just a heads up - it's not a big deal and the workaround is obvious and easy, but when changing the buffer size on the RME drivers (v 4.29) to small buffers, (64, 32) Windows gets a BSOD if Cakewalk is open. No problems in changing it without the DAW open, so the obvious workaround is to close CW before changing the ASIO buffer. It also doesn't seem to be an issue if the buffers are large (from 256 up I seem to remember). It's probably as much an issue with the RME driver as with CW but I haven't noticed happening with other applications open, so just thought of mentioning it.

Just solo the drum tracks and the bass track. Soloing a bus will remove anything that doesn't go to that bus. Or make a bass bus and set it as output of the bass track.

Ah, cool - no I haven't used FL studio but it's nevertheless more clear.

I guess what's unclear is what you guys mean by "control points". It's like in graphic programs' Bezier curves, where each point has handles that allow to change the slope locally?

Haha great minds Yeah the Art is definitely an alright piece of kit. But that's a bit the point... it's never the kit, it's the person using it. Or at most the combination. That Neve console with banks of 1073s will still sound like crap in the wrong hands. Absolutely! Haptics and clarity of purpose are the main benefit of outboard. Besides the looks and the fun of course! Plus, you usually don't want to buy rackloads of the stuff, so it limits your choice that for some people is very beneficial. I don't doubt it. It means you're better at using the ART than whatever else you were using before! On a side note, this can be an indication that you're not yet in terms of goal/solution when it comes to get a mix you like. If you were, you would get just as good results ITB as not - because great mixes don't just "happen" - they are the result a very deliberate set of choices which, nowadays, are quite irrelevant of the type of tool - hardware or software. That said, when it comes to learning stuff the sky's the limit and we never stop getting better if we want (it's the fun of playing an instrument or recording or mixing, and most stuff worth doing)... and when you want results here and now, the best tool is the one that gets you there!