Starship Krupa

So good that if feels like cheating.

So you My apologies, goodsir, it was what was in your quote from azslow that was in error, but the page does say that they intend for people to use the things with their Macs and PC's. Whether anyone would wish to....not for me to decide. You are perhaps under the misapprehension that I somehow endorse these things, but if you get around to reading my original post you'll find that it concludes with me saying "I personally would pass." In case there's any ambiguity about that, it means that I would not wish to purchase the BandLab Digital Link interfaces due to their beginner-level specifications. Where I said "whether you think they are 'deals' in general is up to you," what I meant by that was that it was not instantly apparent to me that they were, and that people should decide for themselves. I see you're doing a service to the left-mouse-button-challenged by copying and pasting the specs, and even giving them an example of a competing product and telling them they should compare them. Perhaps my "whether they are 'deals' is up to you" was a bit fancy. Well, good on ya, mate.

Ooh, thanks for the reminder that I should sit down with a Google Sheet and record all of my PB serials for backup purposes. Most of them have some kind of redundancy in the form of the manufacturers' websites, iLok, whatever, but I do kind of rely on PB as a central repository and sometimes memory jogger. Companies fail, websites get compromised, websites crash, databases get corrupted. I must remember these things.

Oh, you must not have noticed the link I included, which when clicked on, explains everything. ? You must have thought the part of my post where I talked about them being "capped at 48" were the rantings of a madman.? "Technically," the ones I linked to are USB digital audio interfaces, which is why I posted the link here. I had a hunch that some people would be under the same impression that I was, that BandLab were still only selling preamp dongles (The BandLab Link). These are full-fledged interfaces complete with XLR combo inputs and phantom power (The BandLab Link Digital). Here's what I suspect happened: In the 2 years since azslow posted his message, BandLab came out with new products. Other companies have pulled it off, why not BandLab? Once this thought occurred to me, it started to fall into place. They had a small product line, then they expanded it. I thought that putting the link at the top would make it easy for people to notice. Maybe if I made it bigger? You still have to click on it to find out the information, nothing I can do about that. https://store.bandlab.com/collections/link-digital

Not a Staff View user, just a sympathetic bystander, but what I am curious about, and alluded to in my bug report: why does the Right Click vs. Ctrl-Right Click work differently in Piano Roll View? It seems to me that the same note selection issues would apply there, wouldn't they? But when I select a bunch of notes in PRV, then Right Click, I have access to all of the MIDI Process commands that we're talking about. I don't have to hold Ctrl to get them. (matter of fact, I am endlessly plagued by performing operations in PRV where I hadn't realized an entire clip was still selected from when I was in Track View)

My suggestion wasn't intended with the idea to lock anyone into a particular use or workflow, more that I'm proud of Cakewalk for making these advancements, and this seems like an easy way to show off what people can do with them. And in the hope it would spark some ideas as to how I and other users might use them to our advantage. I mean, what are the demo projects for? My impression is that they are there to show off what people can do with, well, SONAR circa whenever Scott and the others submitted their projects, and sometimes to ask people having trouble with the software "does the error occur when you load the demo project?" So how about we have a demo project or two to show what people can do with Cakewalk by BandLab circa today? Work for hire, winners get a BandLab Link Digital.

I've bugged it up, actually, but Jon might not have entered it in the database. He had an objection to it:

I'm not making this request only for myself, and I'm not expecting projects that fit my workflow. It would be nice to just in general, get some projects that were in different, perhaps updated styles of music, and show off and demonstrate the big, new feature. Maybe a project from someone who has utilized the Export to BandLab feature to show that off as well. Cakewalk is a different program, a superset of SONAR. It has surpassed SONAR in every way (except for bundled add-ons), so why not have a demo project or two that shows that off?

TTS-1 has always been solid in on my systems, but I have another question: if it's as crash-y and touchy as you say, why keep using it in your projects? XPand!2 is on what appears to be permanent discount for $15 at Pluginboutique. I've never heard of anyone having trouble with it in Cakewalk, and it comes with over 2,000 sounds.

The "Cakewalk Edition" could be the one with the driver that enables the 44-196 that the chip in those things is surely capable of. GPU companies have been doing this for years, sell what's basically the same hardware with a different driver as a "workstation" graphics card for 3X the price. But far be it from me, BandLab seem determined not to market to me. Even their new "Albums" feature, which is huge, potentially a game-changer, I only heard about from someone on the Deals sub-forum. For all the initial paranoia about what the company was going to do with people's information and all that, I only wish there were a BandLab mailing list I could subscribe to to be informed about what they're doing. Instead, it could have been my friend telling me "hey, Erik, that BandLab company that you told me about, I heard they're taking on Bandcamp with a no-fees direct music download site?" and that would have been the first I would have heard about it. This lovely forum here, no place for BandLab company announcements that might be of interest to us? (sorry, aidan, for off-topic blather, back to your quest)

Not a time-sensitive offer, and whether you think they are "deals" in general is up to you, but since this forum can seem kind of insulated from the rest of the BandLab empire at times, I wanted to make people aware of these: https://store.bandlab.com/collections/link-digital The last time I checked, they weren't shipping yet. BandLab are officially in the interface business, I don't know how long they have been shipping, and I guess my having to post this suggests that "we can sell a lot of these interfaces to the user base" wasn't a major motivation for the Cakewalk acquisition. Or did I have my head in the sand and there was a big announcement accompanied by a contest and giveaway? All I remember is a contest and giveaway of another company's interface to a lucky Cakewalk forum user. Anyway, they look nice, although if the rates are really fixed/capped at 48K I personally would pass.

I have a hunch that the BandLab Link Digital interfaces are probably pretty compatible, and should you happen to encounter any issues whatsoever, you'd find the support people to be motivated to help resolve them. It's funny how insulated we of this forum are from the rest of what BandLab does. Did anyone else know or remember that BandLab makes/markets interfaces? I vaguely remembered that they had a couple of iRig types in development a while back, but look what they're shipping now and....doesn't it seem a little odd that a potential market for audio interfaces such as Cakewalk users hasn't been pitched to more aggressively? Not that I'm complaining, I don't mind a lack of hucksterism. It does seem like something of a missed opportunity here, and they look like nice enough little interfaces, although if the rate is fixed at or tops out at 48K as the ad copy implies I would pass.

As a former software QA engineer I have often said that if John Godfrey Saxe had lived to see the computer age he would have added software to the list of things, along with laws and sausages, that cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made. Having said that, I do hold respect for what the team that BandLab have assembled are up to with Cakewalk. They have demonstrated a commitment to quality over the years that they have had stewardship of the program. They don't like it when it doesn't work right and take steps quickly to fix it, and you can't ask for much more than that. Our personal prioritization of "works right" may not always agree with the development team's but at least when it comes to crash-y bugs, they are on top of it.

It's been over 2 years now since BandLab picked up SONAR and dusted it off and returned it to life as Cakewalk. Along the way it acquired a lot of long-requested what I call "convenience" features, things that aren't that flashy, but that greatly improve ease-of-use of the program on a daily basis. I'd put things like the Ripple Edit Button, Smart Tool configurability, note value display in Piano Roll and Staff View, Channel Strip colors, etc. in that category. Recently, though, we saw the introduction of a major new feature, the Arranger Track. Quite powerful feature with many possible uses. One issue I've run into, and it's a luxury problem to be sure, is that I've never used a DAW with one. My suggestion: Cakewalk has never updated the demo projects it ships with. Considering the ephemeral nature of popular music, 2 1/2 years is a long time. I'm pushing 60 and I'm not even into exactly the same kind of music I was when I first started using CbB. I've shifted more in the direction of EDM production styles, less so the traditional rock band format. So how about we get at least one new demo project, one that utilizes the Arranger Track? I don't know how this was done in the past, if Cakewalk, Inc. put out a call for submissions with the winners getting compensation and exposure, but, however, it can be done again. I would like to use the Arranger Track to the fullest extent of its capability, but frankly, I've never had a DAW that had one before and I'm not sure what all I can do with it. Demo projects are good for things like that.

Oh. If you're referring to the pile of goodies that came with Platinum, and I'm not that familiar with it because I only started using the program in its Cakewalk by BandLab incarnation, BandLab unfortunately don't have access to a lot of those plug-ins. Based on my understanding, when Cakewalk, Inc. was dissolved, most of the bundling agreements became null and would have needed to be renegotiated (for a price) by anyone who wanted to distribute the SONAR Platinum suite as it had been. Since the new owners wanted to distribute the new suite under a freeware subscription model, I guess they decided that it wasn't feasible to bundle all the pricey licenses they didn't own. Cakewalk bought the Sonitus IP lock, stock, and barrel in the early 2000's, so those plug-ins can be included, others were developed in-house or under contract, such as CA-2A and the ProChannel modules. Speaking of which, the PC modules do include some nice compressors with pleasing UI's, as well as both an algo and convolution reverb. The only remaining FX processing plug-ins that I know of that remain unincluded are a few PC modules, Channel Tools, and the LP EQ and Multiband Compressor. I would love to see these last two included (I think the others are in the pipeline), but since they have licensing mechanisms built into them that would need to be removed or retooled to somehow work with BandLab's servers instead of the old Cakewalk licensing server, it's a bigger hassle. As far as I can tell, the only "fact" we disagree on is whether the Sonitus FX sound good and are worth updating with more modern UI's. I think they sound good, you don't. It's really a matter of taste. I read Admiral "Why I Hate Windows" review in the past. He agrees with you on half of the FX, thinks one of them is brilliant, another one "more than sufficient," and the others, the most specialized ones you'd be unlikely to find in another DAW, he left unreviewed because he doesn't work with surround. Whatever. My take on basic bundled plug-ins is that these days, because of the availability of such great free and cheap alternatives, they don't even have to be world-beaters anyway. Just good enough and easy enough to use to get new users started. But they should look good. Also, I am in the "Sonitus fx sound pretty dang good" camp, so I'd like them to get better UI's so I don't have to squint to see them. That and the ability for the LFO's and delay times to tempo sync. ? When comparison shopping for DAW's, especially one that comes at such a bargain, "bundled plug-ins" isn't going to make or break my decision whether to use it or not at this stage. It's whether I like the features and workflow of the DAW itself. I already have every plug-in I need and they work in every DAW. And as for FX, if it came down to it, give me any DAW and an internet connection and in 30 minutes I'll have all the FX I need to do an excellent mix. Heck, restrict me to the Meldaproduction Free Bundle and Oril River reverb and it's on.

Here's an old forum post outlining the steps to take to enable not only those three, but the Boost 11 limiter. For the record, I think they're power-packed:

Ooh, yeah, you have a special case there, I didn't think of hidden tracks. Well, glad I could help with the info on Quick Groups at least. You may be able to figure out a workaround while you're waiting for the feature to percolate?

Can you describe in more detail what this means? I don't have any NI hardware, but I have installed their free Komplete Kontrol package and it seemed to work fine with Cakewalk and Mixcraft. How is it integrated? What change needs to be made in the DAW to make it happen? I notice that FL Studio, Tracktion Waveform, Samplitude, REAPER, Digital Performer, and Studio One are missing from the list of DAW's you posted, so it seems like a rather restricted feature. Especially if you consider that though there are five DAW's, only three manufacturers are represented on the list, Ableton, Apple, and Steinberg.

@Mark Morgon-Shaw, you have some interesting insights into the history of the DAW market. "Guitar-playing dads?" Excellent. I suppose I fit that demographic, sans kids. Where does Cubase fit into it? Digital Performer? I remember when SONAR came with a tiny "lite" version of Fruity Loops! I think it was on a floppy. I liked it. Just got a license for Break Tweaker, though, so look out. Fortunately, the world of the EDM genre tends to be less ageist, at least in my perception. And for live gigs, you can always pull a deadmau5/Daft Punk and wear a helmet to conceal your geezerhood. Thing is, even though I'm getting into EDM production, and I want to do more of that, not only do I want to do things like using live drum tracks with the rest being electronic production, a la Air, I still do indie rock songs that don't go near the Piano Roll view, so I need a DAW that has reasonably powerful audio recording and editing/comping workflow. I read that Ableton Live! either doesn't have comping or didn't until recently? The thing is, with Ableton, and FL, recording full audio tracks is a tacked-on afterthought, kind of like the perception of EDM work in Cakewalk.

She said MIDI cable to USB, so I'm assuming it's a MIDI-to-USB interface. If it's one of those $10 oval-shaped eBay cheapos that were around a few years ago, I found the one that I bought to be prone to stuck notes. I've noticed a new generation of reasonably-priced USB-MIDI interfaces, maybe they work better, but if she has one of those older ones, it may be the source of the problem or a contributing factor, if it's sending spurious info. It could be sending patch changes or heaven knows what.

Just as another data point, I've been using Cakewalk by BandLab for a couple of years now and TTS-1 is the default instrument in every project template I have that includes a MIDI track. TTS-1 has never crashed on me. Why are you working with older, unsupported software when you could be using a fully-compatible updated, supported version at no cost?

Oy. I haven't run up against any of this because so far I've only used a single drum instrument while composing/producing (and used the composition workflow within the other drum machine to bring in my other beat). I am disturbed to hear you say that there are issues with composing with multiple drum instruments. What you say has me thinking I'm going to go with the @chuckebaby method of using the instrument names over on the left and then using the normal MIDI blobs instead of the Drum Grid. My favorite new plaything is Break Tweaker, I've been getting way into David Tipper's most recent collection of insane sound holograms. So far I've been using Break Tweaker's internal workflow separately and having Cakewalk tell it "Play" rather than triggering it as a drum instrument, but I also want to start doing it the other way, where I use its editing capabilities and trigger individual shots as a sampler. My other DAW, Mixcraft, drum maps are very simple, you have the PRV open and it's under a button. You pick the one you want to use and if there isn't one, select "new" and make a new one. No Zork adventuring. Pick up axe, hit zombie with axe. Done. Now you may commence to program your beatz. That's what you mean by "track-based," I think?

I stand corrected! Thank you. For some of the reasons both you and I have stated: in many categories there are plenty of free and cheap alternatives, so why not when they get the job done? Someone downloads Cakewalk and wants to start right in working with it, they have some very good tools to work with that may look a little dowdy. If they or their clients are discerning enough to care about the UI, they are discerning enough to download other plug-ins to use in their place. Nobody forces anyone to use the stock plug-ins with the UI's open while paying clients watch. Also, some of the functions they perform are still not so common, such as the surround compressor and surround panner/encoder. Feature-wise, W.A. recently put out something called the Sphere Compressor that has a very similar feature set to the Sonitus Compressor. Since you are so adamant that many better free and cheap alternatives exist, and I love free and cheap plug-ins, please turn me on to some of your favorite freeware 5-band multiband compressors, surround compressors, surround panner/encoders, and 6-band versatile EQ's. Even a "far superior" delay would be welcome. Although I think AIR's keyboards and synths are good bargains when I can get them for under $20, I am much less impressed with their FX. Last week I tried a trial of their Vocalizer Pro, which attempts to emulate a classic vocoder but is lacking in a couple of crucial features. First, it can't do the basic vocoder task of accepting an external carrier (you can only use its internal synth), second, despite appearing quite feature-packed and complex, it has no manual. Whatsoever. I am now patiently waiting for the trial to expire so that I can hide its existence from my iLok control panel. The UI was pretty, though, it looked better than a Las Vegas casino at night. I'm also quite interested to read or watch some of those consistently mediocre "particularly in more recent times" reviews of the Sonitus fx suite because I'm relatively new to the Cakewalk scene and apparently didn't get those memos. I'll direct you to a couple of articles written about them just a year ago in Sound on Sound by Craig Anderton: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/cakewalk-sonitus-effects https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/cakewalk-sonitus-plug-suite And a video by Scott of Chernobyl Studios, who is well-known for pulling no punches when he has something critical to say about Cakewalk:

So what the OP should try, if he has access, is install a version of SONAR that has Rapture or just use Rapture if he already has it? In a pinch, if he has a Cakewalk, Inc. login, I believe it may still be possible to obtain the free version of SONAR Home Studio that was given away as magware (Computer Music, I think) a few years back. I did so myself about a year ago; believe it or not my sole aim was to get my hands on the 2,000 page pdf SONAR manual. However, in the process I also got a nice handful of useful plug-ins, the Project5 DXi processors and Rapture Session. Which of course work a treat in modern day Cakewalk.

I think if you download the presets for MModernCompressor, one of my early attempts at an LA-2A is in there. Can't say as I'd vouch for it at this point, necessarily. I was just kinda taken aback by the lack of Preset Exchange material for that compressor and wanted to put something out there for people to download. My favorite personal preset these days is one I modeled on the parameters of the dbx 165, using the psychoacoustic detector. I call it "Psycho X." I should upload it to the Exchange. Every kick and snare track I do starts with Psycho X. I copied some of the parameters from the Sonitus fx preset. As you know, I'm one of the lonely defenders of MModernCompressor, I think even Vojtech sort of regrets having put it out. Or he would if he experiences emotions such as regret. ? But I'm one to love the unloved, and after my initial frustrations and buyer's remorse developed an affection for it, as well as a determination to get my investment's worth. I was rewarded, because as it turns out, MModern is the compressor in the Meldaproduction line that makes it easiest to find the psychoacoustic detector setting. On the others that I have tried (because I have the temporary C19 Complete Bundle license), that setting is buried deeper behind sliding panels, and it might have taken me much longer to discover it.