PavlovsCat

How is BFD3 coming along? It's been out for more than a decade, right? And 9 out of ten posts I've seen about it have been about problems with the plugin. It's kept me from upgrading from BFD Eco even though it would only be $49 USD.

Agreed. I personally don't know a great deal about mixing. Even when I was a working musician, I was a drummer professionally (I was trained on piano and organ too, but I excelled on the drums and loved playing them, so I exclusively played that professionally). Whether live or in the studio, I relied on sound engineers (or in small bands, whoever controlled the mixing board). While I used a multitrack cassette and reel-to-reel recorders as a kid and I think I had a mixing board, I really didn't know what I was doing when I made demos -- I was just trying to work out then, for demos to show to other musicians and wasn't worried about final production, as I wasn't creating something I was going to share publicly. Consequently, even after decades of playing, I still only grasp the basics of EQing and other mixing and mastering essentials. I've advised a bunch of plugin and sample developers on branding and marketing, including advising some who make very high quality plugin effects. I've turned to some of these folks for advice on what effects I should use and I've found that none of them have a negative attitude towards AI. In fact, I was recommended to look into Izotope and Sonible. And I've found that some of my pro friends use tools with AI like the Sonible and Izotope stuff (although the recommendation I get the most is to buy Fab Filter stuff, like their EQ). As it's been explained to me, they use it for insights; it's just another tool in the toolbox. They don't stop using their ears and rely solely on AI. Not even close. They use it to get a perspective they otherwise might not have thought of or an insight that lets them try different things a little quicker than without AI. At least that's my understanding from what's been explained to me. But I completely understand how a longtime audio engineer who has 8 Grammys and 17 platinum records like Outrage Productions may feel that s/he doesn't need these tools. If I had a choice between being able to use that engineer or AI software, that would be an easy choice -- I'd take the engineer every time.

Whereas OutrageProductions wrote "Since mixing and mastering with my own ears have paid for my house, my cars, and a paddock full of motorcycles, I think I'll stay away from sharing my IP with anything AI..." I can say the investments some of us have made in our DAW related purchases could have paid for things like a nicer house, nicer car, etc. I'm pretty sure that Bapu could have bought at least one motorcycle just based on the stuff he posts "installed" on at this forum! The monetary ROI is terrible on the music I -- and most of us here -- make. Instead I focus on personal / artistic fulfillment ROI. My target audience is largely 3 people (my wife and kids). Everything after that is a bonus. I think many -- not all, of course -- of us here are in a similar situation. I think I know who OutrageProductions is -- a pretty serious heavy hitter in the industry (it's pretty easy to guess based on his location and signature) and I could understand why he shies away form AI tools -- he's a elite pro with golden ears and if was an artist fortunate enough to work with him, I would easily prefer his skills to AI. But for most of the rest of us who don't have anything approaching his skills, I think AI tools can be quite useful.

After I win my first Grammy, I'll do the same!

Yep, I'm with you on having a bunch of libraries that sit on my hard drives with little to no use -- that's definitely true for me too. Probably like a lot of us, I have many libraries from of the same instruments sampled by different developers and the 8Dio libraries are simply a lot bigger than other developers libraries of the same instrument. So when my drives (and mine are primarily SSD) get near capacity, I start deleting libraries I don't use, and a bunch of those have been 8Dio libraries, because they're usually much larger than their competitors and not as intuitively scripted. I've often bought them on big sales, thinking, "Even if I use them once in a while, for the price, why not?" But the other factor that I've often given less consideration is, now owning dozens of 8Dio libraries, they're huge. Unlike SampleTank libraries, which I also rarely use, but they're mostly really small libraries. The lesson in all of this for me? You're usually posting about how huge file sizes are of 8Dio/SoundPaint libraries, while I tend to first get pulled in by the demos and price and don't even notice file size until I see you point it out. I've realized I need to pay a lot more attention to file sizes. In this case, 20 bucks for this library sounds very cheap. It's appealing to me. But I also need to consider the 21.17GB of space for a library-- even if it's really good -- that I'll rarely use.

Wow, I didn't notice that. Although it is what we've come to expect from SoundPaint. I wish 8Dio / SoundPaint invested more time writing user friendly scripts than trying to create the largest possible file sizes for each library. I recently deleted a bunch of 8Dio libraries I rarely or have never used as they took up so much space. Of course, you can't resell their libraries so it was a bit disappointing having to delete them, but they were very bloated for what they delivered.

I'm curious how people plan on using this or any other loop-based bass guitar plugins in their productions. Really to better understand how we all think about these tools. Personally, I sometimes use drum loops (that someone else recorded, not me) instead of a click track when I'm first working on a project and I used to be a semi-pro drummer, however, when I'm laying down a first track -- say a piano -- I sometimes I will struggle to hear a clicktrack, while other times, it's more inspiring to play along with a drum beat with a good groove to maintain a good feel. But I always go back and replace the loop with something I or a collaborator actually played. I suppose 99% of that is because a production doesn't feel its my own if I use loops. Even if I realize that the quality of the loop is far superior to my playing -- which is often the case -- it's still not mine, so I replace it with my own playing. I'd be very interested in learning how others plan on using this plugin in their workflow and how they think about using loops as opposed to playing parts in their productions. I have to admit that I was surprised that @Bapu, who's a talented bassist (I've heard his playing and even follow one of his projects on SoundCloud, so I know he's a good player and I'm sure he loves to play), is using this as I figured he would prefer to create his own bass parts as opposed to using a loop-based tool. I'd be very interested how you plan to use it, Bapu. Is it kind of how I use drum loops or will you keep someone else's bass loops in your final production if you feel it fits well?

Sounds alight and the price is certainly very reasonable. It's interesting that SoundPaint pulled their Wurly and still haven't re-added it. I asked Troels about it several weeks ago and he said that he planned on re-adding it, but it's been at least a few months. As I own the library, I was hoping that they'd make some improvements to it, fix an issue I found and improve upon it to make it more dynamic. One of the great things about Wurlys is its dynamic responsiveness and I've found that some libraries -- including the SoundPaint one -- really don't capture those dynamics well. It'd be great to see a new version that does.

Agreed. I'm just cutting back on spending. I was iffy on getting Mixroom, but thought, if I could pick it up for 18 bucks it would be a bit of a no-brainer buy even if I only use it a few times. For anyone else who is on the fence, I thought I'd share this. My interest in Mixroom was largely because a musician friend of mine vastly more knowledgeable on mixing had, last year, suggested that I look into it as aid to better learn mixing. More recently, I came across the below video that I thought confirmed that my friend's advice was solid. FTR, I still think the bundle is an excellent deal -- even for me. I did download the trial yesterday and will be playing around with it and may end up buying the bundle too if I find it useful. I'm thinking of putting it on after Izotope's tool and comparing results with the two. I would still be very interested in hearing from people who know more about mixing than I do giving their thoughts after using Mixroom. My big question is that am I better off sticking with better learning the tools I have or will Mixroom help me to better grasp the EQing/mixing process. As it stands now, I very much rely on AI and am hesitant to make my own EQ decisions because, bluntly, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to mixing (or mastering).

Yep. The reality is, I wasn't going to bite on the product for $30 or more, because I don't really need it, I just thought it might be useful as a learning tool. If the dev would have said, say $25 for the product, I would have said yes. I told him thanks for his response and didn't want to be rude and tell him I won't be buying the Mixroom/Bassroom bundle, but that is the case. Maybe in the future, if Mixroom hits $25 I'll pick it up, but as a business person, I completely agree with you, MusicMan, that the way to handle this is to give the customer a price for a Mixroom alone, otherwise it feels like the customer is paying for a product s/he already has. I do understand Tom's POV, I don't think anything bad about his business practices, but it will mean I won't be making a purchase and may end up never buying from the developer (as I have Izotope, Focusrite, Sonible and other alternatives that I'll continue to use and become more experienced with over time) and I think it would have been wiser to offer everyone who already has a license for Bassroom or Mixroom a lower price than the bundle containing both products.

Unfortunately, I had the opposite response that you did: "I’m afraid we’re not offering the individual purchases of either MIXROOM or BASSROOM to people who obtained a product freely. We’re checking and verifying orders to ensure this doesn’t happen. Apologies for any disappointment. Thanks, Tom Frampton "

Wow. Only after you shared that did I realize that I have a license for Bassroom that I never registered. I just did so that I could check it out. I sent the developer a request to see if I could get just Mixroom at the sale price or close since I already have a license for Bassroom. It's worth a shot!

Mastering The Mix EQ Excellence Bundle, including Mixroom & Bassroom EQ plugins for Mac & Win, is 70% off - $37.80 USD (reg. $126 if purchased separately) - until April 18th (or after 5000 redemptions). This is the best deal I've ever seen on these plugins. I would love to get opinions on them from someone here who owns them. https://www.masteringthemix.com EDIT: There's been a slightly better price on the bundle since I made this post, as Yan pointed out below. $35 USD at Plugin Boutique plus you get a reverb plugin free with the purchase made there. Thanks, @Yan Filiatrault. https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/10458

It's not just you. 8Dio string libraries especially tend to be a massive dump of articulations without intuitive KONTAKT scripting. That is why it did seem a bit odd that they would attempt to build their own sample player (with SoundPaint). A very talented musician friend of mine had advised me against buying their string libraries years ago explaining all of this to me, but I was lured by a sale to pick up some string libraries. On one hand, when their libraries are on the latest sales (which are a lot deeper discounts than when I started buying their libraries), they're a pretty great bargain -- but there is a giant caveat to that bargain: if you want intuitively scripted libraries that make a library fun to play in real time, 8Dio isn't the best choice.

Wait, someone is saying they have enough plugins and don't need more!!! Ban him!!! I kid, I kid. I've been trying my best to reign in my plugin and sample buying all year and doing a pretty decent job. I'm MOSTLY only buying things that are dirt cheap that fill a recognized need or are so cheap ($20 USD or under) and still provide some inspiration that it's not a big deal. But it is great to see deals like this continue -- especially after Plugin Alliance was bought. It is a great time for anyone just getting started with so many high quality devs selling effects at pretty low prices (when on sale and compared to prices several years ago or more).

A secondary benefit is to get early adopters in their user base to iron out bugs, but as a new venture, you can be absolutely certain that the primary reason for the discounting is to get this new venture off the ground. And it's more than a half year after launch and I don't see serious investment in promoting the new venture and considering one of the Cinesamples two partners has recently left the business, so there are some very big reasons for proceeding with caution. Personally, their lack of followers or engagement in social media for this new venture in social media would give me pause. If the service does well, they likely won't continue with lifetime deals, of course, as lifetime deals tend to be associated with small SaaS startups short on cash and these ventures have no small rate of failure, so there is definitely a high degree of risk in the new venture -- as a great deal of these do not have a long life. Of course, those who make the investment will be rewarded if the business succeeds (or even goes three years, as the lifetime deal is cheaper than 3 years of the annual rate). As far as reviewers -- which are primarily influencers -- the reality is, the most successful tier of influencers are compensated these days (even the moderately popular ones on this industry are affiliates of the products they "review") and Cinesamples has clearly worked with at least a couple of big influencers to date, but I haven't seen much buzz around this new venture. On a related note, as far as influencers, to give you an idea of how significant they are to brands in promoting products these days, here's a recent chart showing top ways brands compensate them for their "reviews."

Always keep in mind that the lifetime you're getting is the lifetime of that business, which may be substantially shorter than your lifetime. That, of course, may be a good thing in some ways (you would like to not die) and not so good in other ways (this new operation could potentially close up in less than two years). Cinesamples makes superb sample libraries, but this is a new division and new format that may or may not be successful.

An incredible musician.

Same. They make excellent plugins and they have perpetual licenses-- I think they're a great alternative to Waves and are worthy of our support, even if they are slow to move to VST3.

"Get all premium plug-ins for only US$25 each, and up to 70% off on our star bundles for a limited time only!" Get all of their plugins for $99 USD. https://blackroosteraudio.com/en/landing/spring-sale-2023 NOTE: While Black Rooster Audio makes some very nice plugins, they are VST 2.4. The company claims that they will be releasing VST3 versions but doesn't give an estimate when they will be released: "We are working on VST3 versions of the plug-ins..."

This is a really cool effects plugin. I'm glad I own it, but I know that I've seen much better sales prices (with the included $19 being an all time low, so who knows if it will go that low again). So my guess is, if you're patient, there's probably a better deal than this sale that will come along.

Sounds excellent. I am a big fan of SoundIron. In addition to great libraries, I love the straightforward, no BS way Craig Peters does video walkthroughs. I've never picked up a SoundIron library I wasn't completely happy with -- and I always watch the videos before buying and while some devs (no names, but you can guess) will overhype their libraries in videos and do things that aren't easy to recreate, I've never found that to be the case with SoundIron. Their walkthrough videos always do a great job of displaying what you actually get with the libraries -- no surprises. One of the best, most dependably high quality KONTAKT sample developers on the planet, IMO. Definitely in my top 20 favorite KONTAKT developers.

After the Waves stuff, from their ethically problematic marketing and policies to their short lived attempt to switch over to subscription-only, I feel it's useful to call out the opposite side of the spectrum: customer-centric developers that have great policies and great customer service. I don't know how long I've been a customer of Applied Acoustic Systems, but I'm guessing it's something like 20 years and they've consistently been a great company to deal with and super flexible and accommodating when you have any issues. If we created a list of the developers we've had great experiences with that we would recommend to others, AAS would absolutely be on my list as one of the best.

Double post

Thanks, trager! I have several plugins from United Plugins and especially like Royal Compressor.