PavlovsCat

Mibby, what is your opinion of Smart EQ4? BTW, unrelated, but related to mixing, on your SoundCloud, you mixed a track that I would love to ask you about sometime. I just found the mix very different and would love to know what you did that makes it sound like it does so that I could attempt to mix a song like that.

Hmmm... I've been anticipating purchasing Sonible's Smart EQ4, which seems to be pretty feature packed -- and planning to wait for Black Friday. But this EQ caught my attention when released. I'd love to get the thoughts of more knowledgeable mixers about this (SPOILER: most forum members are more knowledgeable than me on mixing!), especially how it compares to Smart EQ4. I would expect that Sonible's EQ is superior based on their history of making excellent plugins and PluginBoutique largely being a retailer that is doing this as a secondary business.

I realize this is a small developer and a lot of people are probably unfamiliar with him, so I thought I'd share my experience and opinion as a customer. I own 3 or 4 of Edu Prado Sounds libraries and have been a customer for 4 or 5 years. I've never interacted with him. My purchases and the libraries themselves have always worked out smoothly, so there's been no need for support. I like the libraries of his that I own; they're all high quality and very well done. I'm a fan of the Hurdy Gurdy and own a few different Kontakt libraries for the instrument, with Edu's library being my favorite. So if you're looking at this library -- which I don't own, but the demos sound very good to my ears -- and you're wondering about an unfamiliar developer, I can vouch for the quality of his work and will buy more libraries from him in the future.

On another level, this group (including yours truly) is getting up there. I wonder, if like myself, a lot of us are musicians who used to play semi professionally or professionally years ago who now do music as a hobby in our middle age. I know that Bapu, cclarry and a couple of others are. A bunch of the friends I've made back on KVR are too. I've always wanted to do a poll on that, but I realize this is the deals forum, so I'd need a clever way to tie it in.

Happy belated birthday!

I was just about to post something very similar. I was a photographer when I was younger and bought from them. Totally legit.

Thanks for responding. I understand what you're saying and had discerned it prior to your post. I do think the development team does an excellent job with the product. I have zero criticism about the job you and the development team has done with the product. In fact, thanks to all of you for great work. It's the attitude, and lack of respect, towards customers that voice views the team doesn't want to hear that I find problematic and not reflective of a brand I want to patronize. I don't find the above reply acknowledges that and seeks to correct it. It's polite, but completely misses the point. But even more, a customer centric brand wouldn't permit this situation to exist. A customer centric brand would have worked with the employees to modify their public communications. This, and not just the subscription only issue, is why I think I'm going to be leaving BandLab for another DAW.

Thanks for all that info!

It's implied in your "4 to 5 release samples per note," but just to be sure, would you mind confirming that it means that every note was sample (not, say, every third note)? Having grown up with a Wurly in our home (my mother was a music teacher and we had a family band that used the Wurly), beyond the tone, I find the dynamics of the Wurly are an essential part of its greatness. It's sweet when you play it soft and it has bite when you play it harder. So many Wurly sample libraries fail on adequately capturing that. I own a bunch and I'm still not totally satisfied any of them are as good as it could be.

I know a lot of people wouldn't agree, but I'd be okay with a 300GB Wurly library if it was incredible. I'd be willing to commit an entire SSD to a perfect Wurly library. I love the Wurly that much. Dead serious.

Ha! You are correct, sir!

I didn't hear any demos that demonstrated a wide range of dynamics. It's 300-something GB [EDIT: As Doug points out below, I meant MB; the plugin is 380 MB], so I'm guessing it's not 7 or more velocity layers. I'd be interested in learning more, even before downloading the demo, because this didn't sound like it beats my Sky Box Hammer and Waves 140B. But I'd be open to hearing from anyone who feels otherwise. I'm always on the lookout for the ultimate Wurly library or plugin.

My GAS kicked in for this plugin, but your post quickly shut it down, so thanks for sharing your experience.

I'm going to be watching for the next big sale for upgrades from Studio.Pro One 3 to the latest version and can use tips on when they have the best deals on upgrades.

I actually didn't spend much time looking at the Sonar forum until this thread, but I did since this thread began and found a couple of the BandLab employees are pretty abrasive and, if I'm going to be candid, arrogant. Then I saw an employee that exemplifies the qualities any customer centric brand wants to see in an employee, Ashwin. His style stands out as the antithesis of some of the others. I'm guessing the difference is that he's a lot younger, is a professional trained on social media, empathetic towards customers and others, and doesn't possess their arrogance.

I missed on why I find their response a big deal. Having led digital marketing at a couple of global brands and led social media at three global brands, if employees shutdown customers from a discussion on one if those brand's public forums like was done here, it would be a major issue for those employees (I'd talk to them and have them attend training) -- as it would be at any customer centric company. A customer focused brand needs to respect customers and allow them to voice positive and negative feedback. As long as the customers are civil, you don't censor them or demean groups of customers as complainers, as standing on a soapbox, declaring that no additional discussions are permitted on the topic, and close the thread. What commonly happens is that censored customers will develop negative feelings toward the brand and have similar conversations elsewhere where the brand doesn't have a voice. Any customer focused CMO or brand exec would be pretty horrified at what was done in this case. Now maybe you might rationalize it that the employees that censored the thread and the one who posted about customers "complaining" and on a "soapbox" don't represent management, but I find if the company culture allows them to treat customers that way -- if they think they'll get away with it -- it's a pretty clear sign of a company that shares those same feelings towards customers. That experience very quickly changed my opinion of BandLab. I would hope, in the near future, that senior management issues a statement letting customers know their voice is valued despite these communications.

I used MODO Bass for a light weight bass plugin, mainly for the Hofner, before OTS released their Hofner library. I was (and still am) extremely impressed with what they've accomplished with modeling and think those are fantastic prices for what you get. I think MODO Bass is an excellent product. I still find my bass sample libraries have an edge for fullness of tone, but I think a lot of folks would be happy with MODO, especially if they're on a machine that's not very robust. I find MODO Drums fairly similar. I think IK's done a great job, but I'm not going to choose it over SD3 or even better Kontakt drum libraries. But if you're looking for a lightweight alternative for acoustic drums (not as light as the bass, because IK uses samples for the cymbals), I think it's a very solid product. And I'm guessing these products will only get better in the future. I'm hoping IK has some deep discounts in the near future for their new piano plugin line.

I thought it was an actual poll. If you wouldn't mind doing an actual poll where people can check their preference without making a post, I'd do it and I'm sure it will get a much greater response. After BandLab closed the other thread and referred to posts as complaining and getting on a soapbox, I'm sincerely not comfortable posting about the matter in the Sonar forum. I'd bet I'm not alone.

When you go through another forum member's posts in an attempt to make an attack on them and intimidate them from posting, it absolutely feels a lot like stalking or harassment. I haven't commented in every ISW related sales thread as you've asserted. I mainly posted about ISW's attack on a competitor-- back in 2023. I didn't even share that their CEO was getting taunting messages from ISW's CEO back then. I wanted others to know that the attack on that developer was from a competitor and I knew some of it to be false information. I could share that at this forum and I did. I haven't commented in recent ISW sales threads. This thread was about an acquisition and that's what I commented on until your post attacking me. I get that you may love the developer. But going through my past posts, making false, inflated claims, all for a personal attack to try to keep another forum member from posting because you don't agree with them is definitely not in the realm of good behavior. When you assembled some quotes from my past posts from 2023 you could find that mentioned ISW, that definitely reflects a forum member targeting another forum member. It does seem very stalkerish. It's definitely not normal, friendly behavior. If you find that comparable to my sharing my personal relevant knowledge and experience with a developer's employees and the developer himself in a forum of users, I'd disagree that it's comparable. You're a stranger who doesn't know me, or have any knowledge of what I've shared, who's trying to make a case to discredit me and intimidate me from posting. I find that stalkerish and harassing. As far as me editing my posts, I definitely do that to attempt to shorten a post or fix grammatical errors, not to change a point. But the fact that you obsessed over my post to notice that combined with you stalking my past posts is odd. Accept that other people may have experiences, insights, and opinions, that may not always be the same as yours. You can love this developer and even post that, and it won't result in my attempting to cancel those posts as you've attempted to do with mine. We don't have to all think alike to get along.

You just edited your post and it feels a bit like stalking and harassment. This forum is for musicians, not for developers to control and I was sharing my personal knowledge so that other customers understood what was going on at VI Control back then, because some folks here are members at both forums. You're claiming those posts are from the past 6 months when all but one are dated 2023 and some are my responses to someone asking me questions. The dates relate to being near when ISW had two employees (technically contractors) making libelous attacks, two that I knew to be false, on a competitor. And I knew one of the employees to be lying because 14 years prior, I gave him advice after he was caught doing a faux review on KVR talking up a library for a developer he worked for against Troels library-- hiding the fact to make it look like an unbiased comparison; it was a faux review for a company he worked for that talked it up against a competitor library. 14 years later, that employee, Mario (who I otherwise have always really liked) posted falsely that Troels had threatened him for merely doing a critical review as a sample user -- not what he actually did. I was contacted back then because Mario was afraid he could be sued for what he did. Mario and Sarah both work for Impact Soundworks, an 8Dio competitor, but didn't disclose that in their thread attacking an ISW competitor. I found that unethical and I voiced that opinion. So when someone asks me about something, I commonly will tell them as I did last year in some posts you've cited. But those posts are from back then. They don't include recent ISW sales threads, as you've asserted. Once I shared the info, I didn't share it again unless someone asked, brought it up, as you just did, or found it relevant to a discussion. For some reason that really disturbs you to the point of your above inflammatory post that feels a lot like harassment. I hope you'll stop. All of us should be free to share our knowledge, experience, and opinions without facing attacks from other forum members seeking to control conversations when they see something they don't agree with.

It's a forum. I thought it would be insightful to share how the industry has evolved in a thread about an acquisition. I've only shared something about ISW's practices on one other ISW thread earlier this year, not subsequent threads. That was several months ago. In my real life, I write on business, and have covered, and am known for, my writing on marketing strategy and business ethics. It's part of what I do. So it definitely impacts how I write posts and what interests me. Part of what makes this forum great is that it's user based, not centered around making revenue from developers. That enables us to be more open. I greatly appreciate that difference. If someone writes something that shares knowledge that you don't agree with or like, you don't have to attempt to cancel their posts. It's fine to disagree, but censorship and trying to cancel conversations, as you're attempting to do, is something very different. If you don't agree with someone or like what they wrote, you can simply skip their post and read another one or state your case without an attempt to cancel someone else's write to speak. It's not that hard. You're not going to be able to control and agree with every post you see. This isn't an echo chamber, and I think that's a good thing.

I was aware that Red Room Audio was started by a former ISW contractor. They made nice libraries (although I only have their freebies), IMO. One of the things about how some indie developers in this business operate makes acquisitions relatively easy. Though these companies may bring in millions in annual revenue, they're often ran exclusively using contractors. Even more, some avoid the expense of an office and remain home-based with contractors working remotely. To anyone who thinks this industry isn't lucrative, put the address at the bottom of your Impact Soundworks emails into Google and check out that million dollar plus dream home. This business is still making some developers rich. Years ago, I used to give small developers free advice and would even turn down free NFRs in many instances. But those were very different times when the industry wasn't mature and less money was being made. Some of those developers, like Camel Audio and Steven Slate, have gone on to great success. But those were different times. Even savvy small devs are making great money and the industry has become very cut throat. Too bad Red Room Audio couldn't make a go of it.

The concern is that while CbB is presently available to use and being updated (in the recent past, BandLab stated that the software would no longer have updates by this point) is that BandLab has already announced they will soon no longer update or support it. So it may have all sorts of problems in the future, including activation issues. It's a dead end and something it's best to transition away from. For me, the whole advantage to going to Sonar (and I used the original Sonar since version 1) is that my Cakewalk files would open up in it without issues. Otherwise, if that weren't the case, I'd just move to Studio One Pro.

To those who are good with subscriptions, enjoy. But for me, the problem with software subscriptions is that once you stop paying the subscription fee, all of those projects you created can no longer be accessed. I don't think it was in this forum, but someone recently did a great analogy with software subscriptions and physical magazine subscriptions. When you subscribe to a physical magazine (or newspapers), if you stop your subscription, the company doesn't send someone to take any past magazines from you. A perpetual license for a DAW enables you to access the projects for as long as the software works. If Sonar is only available on a subscription, it's simply not for me. The treatment of customers by BandLab employees on this forum is already making it easier to move on. If there was a seamless converter for Cakewalk files to Studio One Pro that was available, I wouldn't even be open to giving it a couple more months. I just dread having so many projects for a DAW I will no longer use and may not be able to access and I also don't enjoy the prospect of having to invest more time to learn another DAW as well as I know Cakewalk/ the old Sonar.

I'm confident it will receive the same degree of attention from BandLab either way based on what's occurred in this forum publicly.