Matthew Carr

Sorry for a long post! I think there's an opportunity to leverage the great work made on the arranger track, to create a fantastic live performance tool. I've been trialling it out, and all the component pieces are there, it just needs a bit of glue / enhancement to make it a really workable option Here's an example project being used for my 80s (ish) cover band, which uses backing / click tracks extensively: Basically, I use the arranger track to create sections for each song, then use track folders to contain my audio backing tracks, Midi data to control outboard gear, Midi control of DMX etc. I then create a track folder for each song, which contains the virtual instruments used to perform the song controlled from my master keyboards. It works surprisingly well! I can re-arrange the set list before any gig using the arrangements functionality During the gig, I can jump to any track I want by clicking on it - it cues it up instantly I use a workspace to remove any GUI components not needed I use Mix recall to move between live and playback scenes The Live scene plays the project, and allows recording on any track that's armed The Playback scene plays back audio, and sends recorded midi data to the vsts After rehearsal, I can adjust the mix, effects, instrumentation etc in context of other band members performance At a gig (hopefully soon!) it makes it easy to do a virtual soundcheck Importantly, (which could be a big USP for cakewalk), I can view notation, chords and lyrics via the staff view during the performance - perfect! Once you've had the ability to glance over and see notation / lead sheets synced up perfectly with the backing track you really don't want to go back... To bring this all together and make it easier to use I'm thinking of perhaps a new project file format (.cwl - cakewalk live), which when opened changes the behaviour of the arranger track to make it more suitable to live performance. It could also be achieved by a toggle switch on the arranger menu, which could be simpler for the bakers I guess? There's a lot of options that could be included in the set-list version of the arranger window - I'm sure others have ideas, but my initial thoughts would be 1. Add a separate right click context menu to each song in the set list, along the lines of: With this context menu you could define some additional properties for the song The Play mode, which determines what happens when the playhead reaches the end of the song Continue, pause at end of song, loop song The tempo and key of the song Yes, I know you can insert tempo and key changes in the timeline, but would be a nice to have to be able to set this on a song basis! 2. When creating a song section, a linked track folder is created with the same name as the song section The linked track folder is only displayed when the song is selected Any virtual instruments within the track folder are bypassed (muted), unless the playhead is within the song This would tidy up the project view and make it easier to manage, and avoid the current situation of having to draw automation to mute each virtual instrument outside of the song it's used for I have a bunch of other ideas, but this post is long enough already.. If there's any interest I can add more ? Cheers, Matt

Spoke too soon, as soon as there's a mix of real and virtual midi inputs, the issues start up Project with two tracks: one input from a preset mapped to virtual midi cable one input from a preset mapped to physical controller All mappings look good Close the project, connect another physical controller, open the project and... The mapping for the virtual Lower_Keyboard (PrLowerKB) stays mapped correctly The track with input from the physical controller LX61 has changed to receive input from both virtual midi cables, and the the newly add physical controller SL MKII. The input from the LX61 has been lost The mapping for the virtual Upper_Keyboard (PrUpperKB) is changed to receive input from the physical LX61 If I attempt to view the mapping for the physical controller again, the screen shows no mappings - I think this is a different bug on the Input Presets screen (sorry) If I open the preset manager via clicking on the 'Manage Presets' button for the track, the mappings are shown If I use the drop down list to select the preset, the mappings are not shown Hopefully this helps Mark, please let me know if you need any further info

Thanks Mark - that looks interesting, never come across that functionality before so will give it a try! Updated: This looks like it could be a great workaround, on a simple test it seemed to work, I just need to try it on a more realistic situation - I'll give an update once I have Thanks again Mark, really appreciate your help

Sorry for the long post below - the tl/dr; I think there is an issue with virtual midi ports, but not physical midi ports (For clarity, in the below tests each physical midi controller was plugged into the same physical usb connector each time) I removed all virtual midi cables on the PC, rebooted, and created a new project with one physical midi controller connected (Impact LX61) I then closed the project, connected another physical midi controller (Novation SL MKII), and re-opened the project. No changes, everything as expected I closed the project, enabled the SL MKII as a midi input, and opened the project. Again, no changes to the midi input of the track This is what I would expect - connecting / adding new midi devices doesn't impact old projects - happy days! ? I then disconnected the SL MKII, added a virtual Midi cable (Lower_Keyboard) with loopMidi, rebooted, and opened the project again (note, I hadn't enabled the virtual midi cable). Still good, no changes the the midi input I close the project, connect the SL MKII, and open the project - still good, no changes. I close the project, enable both the SL MKII and virtual midi cable as inputs, and open the project - still good, no changes So, to summarise at this point - if the project only has midi inputs from physical midi devices, they work exactly as expected - they are not changed by the addition / removal of other physical or virtual midi devices I then close the project, disconnect the SL MKII, open the project and add another track using the virtual midi cable 'Lower_Keyboard' as the input Opening and closing the project works as expected, the track inputs stay as they were originally saved I then close the project, connect the SL MKII, open the project and.... The midi input from the physical midi device stays the same The midi input from the virtual cable is changed to accept midi data from all active midi inputs!! ? Sooo... this to me really seems like a bug, inputs from virtual midi devices are being changed when new physical midi controllers are added to the setup, whereas inputs from physical midi devices are not changed. Getting to the limit of my understanding now.. I hope someone can chime in with an explanation, or confirmation that this is a bug and I can report it. Cheers, Matt Just to add, this seems like an edge case scenario that only happens when you add a new midi controller to your setup, but it affects me a lot. E.g. When I open a project in my rehearsal space, that I've worked on in my studio, the inputs from virtual midi devices get corrupted on opening. I even have the same PC and midi controller keyboards plugged into the same physical USB ports at both locations, but it's not enough!! Because there is some gear connected at the rehearsal space that has USB midi functionality (even though it's not checked as active in preferences) , it's enough to trigger this bug.

Thanks for the replies, they're appreciated! Due to the way Windows handles USB connections, we've always had to be super careful with making sure Midi devices are on, and connected to the same physical hardware usb connector to avoid problems, but this seems more than that. The midi input was changed from receiving midi data from one single device to receiving midi data from three devices. I could maybe understand if the input was switched to a different device - but why has the input been changed to receive data from three devices? Following the above comments, the conclusion is I can never connect a new piece of USB hardware with midi functionality (mixer, keyboard, interface etc), as if I do, then all my existing projects will be corrupted on opening My gut feeling is that this may be to do with the way virtual midi ports are being enumerated for tracks with input echo set to on. I'll do a few tests and report back.

Just to add results of a further test If I enable the newly connected hardware controller for midi input and then open the project, one of the inputs stays as it was when saved, whilst the other gets set to all three midi inputs So the inputs are now being royally messed up when opening the project!

Hi, Can anyone please help explain this behaviour - it's driving me nuts and I can't understand WHY this would happen To simplify, I've created a project that has two midi tracks with input from 2 virtual midi devices (Lower_Keyboard and Upper_Keyboard, created with loopMidi.) Both tracks have input echo set to on, and have their outputs set to different cakewalk synths All works fine; I save the file, open it, and all stays the same as I expect. I close the file, and then connect a hardware controller to the PC. When I open the file again, both midi inputs have changed to receive input from both virtual devices! This is crazy.... or am I crazy??? ? Note that after connecting the hardware controller, I didn't even select it as an input in preferences, it was just connected to the PC. I.e. the original device list was: And after connecting the hardware controller, the active inputs were still the same, although the hardware controller was now shown in the list So the fact of just connecting a hardware controller to the PC was enough for the project to be corrupted on opening! I can only think there is a bug with the way inputs are being set on tracks with input echo enabled, but perhaps this is some behaviour I don't understand - if so, I'd really appreciate any ideas on how to stop this from happening! Cheers, Matt

I have one of these, great IO and performance for the money - and built like a tank! Latency is good too

Yes, I find it really annoying when MIDI inputs / outputs are changed if you open a project where the midi hardware doesn't match what was connected when you saved the project. Raised a feedback request here Option to set Disconnected Midi Devices to 'None' at startup

This is the scenario, I have a lot of external gear controlled by MIDI tracks (output) and a few controllers providing MIDI In. If I open a project where one of the external devices is disconnected / powered off / not available, then the MIDI data is assigned to a random MIDI device Tracks receiving input from the missing midi controller are set to receive input from random MIDI devices(s) Tracks outputting to a missing MIDI devices are, more often than not, assigned to a random VST within the project This causes havoc when opening the project, and it's not possible to prevent this from happening. It's particularly problematic for outputs - they get assigned to a random VST in the project, which can result in a program change being sent - which then changes the VST patch the project was originally saved with. E.g. A test project with Novation SL2 connected (it has both MIDI In and MIDI Out, to demonstrate ) If I open the same project, without the SL2 connected: The MIDI output on track 1 has been set to control Xpand2 (resulting in a patch change) The MIDI input on track 1 has been changed from 'None' to a random MIDI input device The MIDI input on track 2 has been set to a random device in the MIDI input list The changes were made silently - no warnings given - which makes it very easy to miss in even in a fairly simple project. I guess there was a use case for this at some point, but frankly I can't imagine how this behaviour can be of use to anyone... ? Instead, can please we have an option in preferences along the lines of If this option is checked, when opening the project, any MIDI inputs / outputs set to missing midi devices are set to 'None' rather than some random allocation. This would massively help my workflow - at the moment I'm on tenterhooks every time I open a project (esp. at a different location), looking for any silent changes that have been made. Hopefully the checkbox option would be a quick fix to prevent the craziness of above. I guess the longer term solution would be a dialog presented when opening the project to prompt the user to select the Midi device to be used for each missing MIDI device - similar to what happens for audio. Cheers, Matt

Update 1 fixed the slow start of Cakewalk (looking for updates I guess) on a networked PC without access to the internet... a minor inconvenience, but nice to be resolved. Great work on the recent updates, they have been stellar!

Cheers All - to give an update I updated my live rig to CbB Version 2020.09, and haven't had the crash relating to Raum / Phasis etc In no rush to update the OS on my live rig to check further, but think that proves it's not an issue with build 2020.09

As far as I'm concerned recent Dell laptops are a complete non-starter for audio work - especially live use. Just google 'Dell ACPI.SYS latency issues' and it'll become apparent you're better off going with another brand .It's endemic across all their models - even the XPS series, which is often touted for audio work

Anyone else seeing this - I can't track down what the problem is. I think it maybe something to do with the latest version of bandlab / windows When adding Native Instruments effects (Raum, Phasis, Replica etc) to the FX bin, or attempting to edit them in an existing project, I get a complete crash However, it's not consistent: - I I do the same in an new empty project, then it seems I can add the effects to the bin / open the FX UI, no problem. - When I load an existing project, then opening the UI for the effect, sometimes it crashes, sometimes it doesn't Have tried re-installing the effects from Native Access, but no change. I have one particular project where the crash seems to happen pretty consistently. I copied this project onto my live rig (exact same hardware, but different builds), and haven't been able to get a single crash: Studio Machine (Crashing): Windows 10 Pro version 2004, build 19041.508; CbB Version 2020.09, Build 006, 64 Bit Live Rig (No Crash): Windows 10 Pro version 1909, build 18363.836; CbB Version 2020.04, Build 179, 64 Bit Which makes me think it's something to do with updates to windows or CbB? I need to bring my live rig up to date, but want to try and iron this out first - Is there a way of installing an older build of Bandlab on my machine that crashes? Thanks for any advice in advance, Matt

Hi Jim, In my mind it would just be another option in the FX Bin context menu (of a Simple Instrument Track) shown below - "Insert Midi Plugin" i.e. the same as the option available in the FX Bin context menu for a midi track I use Midi FX a lot to condition data from external controllers; mainly the Event Filter, Transpose and Velocity plugins. Cheers, Matt

Hi, Would be great if we could add Midi FX directly to the FX Bin of a simple instrument track. At the moment you have to either: a) Break the track into a midi track and an instrument track in order to add the Midi FX to the separate midi track. This seems unnecessarily complex b) Use the track inspector, switch to the midi tab, where you can then add the Midi FX for the simple instrument - but then the midi FX is kinda hidden. If it showed in the track FX bin, it would be more obvious, esp. when there are lots of simple instrument tracks. Instead, if the drop down on a simple instrument track FX Bin allowed selection of Midi FX, any midi effects would be obvious by looking at the track FX Bin, without having to split the instrument track and add complexity to the project. Behind the scenes I guess this would be the same as option b) above. Cheers, Matt

Personally I'd like to see the Staff view get some attention - it doesn't need to be a complete notation package, but just given some love so it works better. Perhaps even take Don Williams up on his offer to update the staff view based on overture. IMO Providing usable notation within a free DAW seems like a great idea for the educational market, and could be a fantastic way to add new users into the userbase

Same here, think I mis-understood about the unlock code given before CbB came into existence - it wasn't forTH3 Full, but a code that allowed the bundled version to be run outside of Sonar - you had to pay more to get an upgrade to TH3 Full. Hence the current upgrade to THU is still expensive, as it's not an upgrade from TH3 Full. Thanks for the link Scook - made it all clear. Hmm.. I just contacted Overloud with my serial, and they gave me a voucher for 20% off TH3, meaning it would still be 183.04 GBP. @tonemangler - did you manage to get an upgrade to TH3 Full?

Hmm.. I just contacted Overloud with my serial, and they gave me a voucher for 20% off TH3, meaning it would still be 183.04 GBP. @tonemangler - did you manage to get an upgrade to TH3 Full?

Intriguing... what did you do?

I connect to a rack mount pc via remote desktop, and have the same issue - there are workarounds, but would be nice to see a fix

Hi, Wonder if anyone can shed any light on this, I have a strange re-producible issue, but you'll need the Waves Tune Real-Time plugin. Create new project from the basic template 'Basic.CWT' Add Waves Tune Real-Time Mono in the FX Bin of the audio track Insert Rapture Soft Synth as a simple instrument track (not Rapture Session) Cakewalk crashes, UI of Rapture is white Only way out is to kill Cakewalk via task manager Rapture can be inserted without issue , if I: Don't add the waves auto tune audio fx Add the waves auto tune audio fx, but bypass it (i.e. click the off switch in fx bin, so it's greyed out), before adding Rapture Tried it on 2 systems, with the same results. Haven't used the auto tune plugin before, so maybe I'm missing something that is causing the crash - maybe? Seems like it causes issues with other synths as well if it's enabled in the fx bin (e.g. might cause some kind of audio feedback in the output of Air Xpand2 when selecting some presets), but Rapture seemed like the most clear cut issue. System is core i7, windows 10, CbB and Waves all updated to latest. Thanks in advance for any help, Matt

I've also used a 404HD without issue, and for the money I think it's a great choice - latency is fine, and it's built like a tank with lots of IO I also noticed windows apps might have sound issues if sample rates not aligned between Cakewalk and Windows, so check that first.

Hi HardDrive, Sounds like there's plenty going on in your setup, but my 2 cents on your points would be: 1) Make sure you always plug the same gear into the same USB socket on your PC every time, particularly any controllers and your sound card. The device and the port it's plugged into are used by Windows to identify the device. If devices are plugged into ports different to when the file was last saved, you will get CbB prompting you to assign ins and outs to devices when opening the file (even though they may have the same name in the dialog) 2) Try un-checking the Reset All Controllers to zero at start / stop option - sometimes these messages are interpreted by plugins as a controller change, so the project gets marked as dirty, and it has to be saved before closing. (Would be great if there was a command line switch to open a CbB project in read only mode - I did raise it as a feature request, but no traction so far) 3) No experience - sorry! Cheers, Matt

Will we ever again reach the dizzy heights of 'It all goes crash in the loudspekah'....