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Robert Bone

SOLVED - URGENT - MIDI controller activity no longer detected by CbB OR Splat

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Posted (edited)

Hi - I thought this was solved, but it turns out while it briefly was, it is broken again.  I do NOT understand why this began doing this sometime yesterday.  I have an URGENT need to complete some work and deliver it to someone - I was supposed to have sent the completed work last night, as it will be needed for use tomorrow, so this is a HUGELY urgent thing for me to fix.

I have had an unchanged configuration with CbB and SPLAT, for more than a year, where my midi controller has been plugged into the same ports, everything worked great, etc., when all of a sudden, yesterday afternoon I discovered my midi controller's activity was no longer being detected within CbB OR in SPLAT.  Meaning, pressing keys  on the midi controller, should have produced midi data in CbB or in SPLAT, and it was not, though it all worked fine the night before, and I had made no changes.

I THOUGHT I had this fixed, by doing an uninstall/delete/install of the USB drivers for the midi controller, and it began to work in a new project, after doing the above, but when I loaded up an existing project, it quit working again, and now setting up a VSTi instance, midi track, audio track, and routing assignments, it only works when I press notes on the FM8 virtual keyboard, but NOT when I press notes on the midi controller.  (It does also work outside of CbB, if I run FM8 (or any synth) in stand-alone mode - notes pressed on the midi controller trigger sounds in the synth, as is supposed to be the case.  Additionally, midi activity is detected by the Windows System Tray's MIDI Input/Output Activity monitor, and by MIDI Ox, if I run that - while in the CbB project.

MY APPARENT solution - I uninstalled and deleted the midi drivers for my class-compliant Roland A-800 Pro midi controller, unplugged the USB cable, restarted my computer, logged in, and plugged the USB cable back into the same port I had it in prior to uninstalling.  Windows went through the device setup process, and it began working again after that.  Nothing else I had tried (including Windows corruption detection/repair or ripping out CbB and doing a clean install) had fixed anything, but for whatever reason, uninstalling the Roland device drivers and letting Windows install the same drivers again did the trick).  This WORKED, and I saved the new project I had set up, but now is again no longer working.

01) The midi controller was properly declared/selected in Preferences>MIDI>Devices under Inputs, and available to CbB

02) The A-Pro USB drivers were properly loaded and working properly when viewed in Device Manager

03) The routing assignments in the CbB project are properly made, between audio/midi/VSTi, including specifying Omni for Input on the midi track

04) Playing notes using the VSTi virtual keyboard for FM8 properly produces midi data and sound (same for other synths)

05) Existing midi track data properly plays back for all midi tracks and VSTi instances/instruments, so even the Midi Output Channel specified for the midi tracks are correct and unchanged.

06) MIDI Ox shows proper midi data for keys pressed on the midi controller, as does the indicator light in the Windows System Tray MIDI Input/Output Activity app

07) No related errors seen in Windows Event Viewer

08) Antivirus software is temporarily disabled, (though I already had anything needed already listed as exclusions to being scanned)

09) There is no detected corruption in Windows, after running diagnostics

10) I performed a complete uninstall, including removing any vestigial Registry entries or Windows folders, and a clean install of CbB

11) SAME issues when trying to work in SPLAT, and same conditions as above, except I did not also do a clean reinstall of SPLAT.

12) I also do not have a spare midi controller at this location, to try swapping it out, but by all indications, my Roland A-800 Pro seems to be working properly, and both Windows and MIDI Ox ARE detecting the appropriate midi note event data when I press keys on the midi controller - it is just not being recognized/'seen' by either CbB or Splat.

I am ALL EARS for any ideas - I really really really need to get this resolved as soon as possible, because I have commitments I cannot currently deliver on time, and that is a problem.  I hope I am just a paranoid idiot, and there is something I am overlooking.  The pain meds don't exactly help me properly reason through things, either, but I just cannot figure out why this is happening.

THANKS to anyone who even read all of the above, and for anybody's assistance in my quickly getting past this.

Bob Bone

 

Edited by Robert Bone
Added content to show problem resolution.

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Have you tried renaming TTSSEQ.ini in the user directory? For CbB the user directory is %appdata%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core.

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I'd test with a different DAW application... to see if the MIDI performance data (from said controller) is being recorded.

If so, the issue is down to CbB/Sonar.

 

If you don't have another DAW application, Reaper would be perfect for test purposes.

It's a small download... and can be uninstalled without leaving lots of remnants.

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One other thing:

Is the MIDI controller connected to a USB-3 port?

If so, some older Audio and MIDI interfaces have issues with USB-3 controllers (especially 3rd-party USB-3 controllers - meaning non-Intel).

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I am too tired and sore to keep typing - but the bottom line is that my issues were caused by the alteration of which USB port the AUDIO INTERFACE got plugged into, which then affected the numbering assignment Windows made for which device was plugged into which port.  I guess when that happened, it confused CbB, or at least under the hood, it changed things enough to where its prior internals were no longer correctly associating the displayed and checked A-Pro midi device, to the actual midi controller, but because it only ever displayed A-Pro, no matter how it was internally assigned, I did not know that connection was actually no longer valid.

Deselecting the A-Pro as a midi input device, and then selecting it again, seems to have fixed it - I think I also cycled CbP and SPLAT in between the removal and declaring it again as a midi input device, anyways - it now seems to work.

So, YEAH, that whole ASSumption thing is still lurking out there, no matter HOW experienced one is.  The second thing that was painfully reinforced into my forever way of thinking, is that never again will I let anybody but ME unplug or plug USB cables into my computer.

I guess the last thing would be that I wish there was some better way to associate the displayed midi input devices with the USB ports they are actually plugged into.  Maybe there is a way to know this, but I am too foggy to think that through.

Bob Bone

 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Robert Bone said:

Deselecting the A-Pro as a midi input device, and then selecting it again, seems to have fixed it

First, congrats on solving this, at least in this case.  Second, there is much value in undoing something and redoing it in order to try to trigger a reset/change!

I learned this several months ago when trying to problem-solve an issue with the mysterious black box known as Windows Sound.  The Windows Sound Troubleshooter could never find the problem, but sometimes just running the troubleshooter MIGHT solve the problem (not always).   Flicking a switch turned out to be a much more consistent fix for the problem I was having--no need to power down, reboot anything, etc. 

Third, if there's an easy way to see what usb device is associated with what port, I'd be interested!  (Something simpler and quicker than looking at the properties for each port and keeping  a personal list of manufacturer ids,  device ids, etc.

Flick-the-switch-to-trigger-a-reset.png

Edited by MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve)
to add a sentence I mentally penned but didn't type!
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Yeah, Windows/Cakewalk do not handle moving USB MIDI devices well. I have a minor issue with my MOTU MIDI interface not being initialized properly at boot since the Windows 1903 update.  MOTU Support suggested to try moving it to another port. I had already told them that was not an option due to potential issues like this. I think things have improved since the time this happened to me, and no amount of reconfiguration or Windows registry hacking would get the port enumeration back in an order that was compatible with existing projects. I ultimately I ended up having to manually update every legacy project I wanted to work on! I ain't going down that road again.

Glad you got your issue resolved without having go that far.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) said:

First, congrats on solving this, at least in this case.  Second, there is much value in undoing something and redoing it in order to try to trigger a reset/change!

I learned this several months ago when trying to problem-solve an issue with the mysterious black box known as Windows Sound.  The Windows Sound Troubleshooter could never find the problem, but sometimes just running the troubleshooter MIGHT solve the problem (not always).   Flicking a switch turned out to be a much more consistent fix for the problem I was having--no need to power down, reboot anything, etc. 

Third, if there's an easy way to see what usb device is associated with what port, I'd be interested!  (Something simpler and quicker than looking at the properties for each port and keeping  a personal list of manufacturer ids,  device ids, etc.

Flick-the-switch-to-trigger-a-reset.png

ZACTLY!  I am too medicated from pain, and far too evolved over time (old), to try to keep lists of what is plugged into what, and I don't have a good means of keeping track of those ports and connections, other than to know not to plug stuff in differently, EVER.  Had I thought my friend's accidental shifting that USB connection was done, I would have figured all of this out last night, but because I was literally staring at the correct port for the midi controller to be plugged into, it just didn't enter my head as anything to need to look at.  I welcome thoughts on an easy way to see what is connected to what, and specially to know when it has changed.  Maybe, some industrious developer of utilities could think of some kind of utility to snapshot the USB connection/port/device info and also spit out an indication that something changed..............(he states hopefully)

DOH! :)

Bob Bone

Edited by Robert Bone
A plea for someone to develop a helpful utility

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"Yeah, Windows/Cakewalk do not handle moving USB MIDI devices well." (David Baay).

Man is that ever true. Twice I have had to reinstall Windows because I unplugged an external hard drive with windows running (forgot to "safely" eject it). Windows would only tell me there was a problem with a removable device, but there was no way that I could find at least, to fix it, so I had to reinstall. Twice. with all the peripherals and plugins and libraries (not to mention those lovely windows updates), it took me several days each time. You need to be extremely careful unplugging things, at least with Windows 7. 

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3 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I'd test with a different DAW application... to see if the MIDI performance data (from said controller) is being recorded.

If so, the issue is down to CbB/Sonar.

 

If you don't have another DAW application, Reaper would be perfect for test purposes.

It's a small download... and can be uninstalled without leaving lots of remnants.

Hi, Jim.  Thanks for the replies - I was too burnt and sore to respond earlier, but I laid down for a bit and let a round of meds kick in, so am back at it.

Anyways, I posted my solution - and I had considered using a different DAW to test, but when it worked fine outside of CbB, and also failed with both CbB and SPLAT, I knew I could narrow it down to something peculiar with the midi devices and the two flavors of Cakewalk and Sonar.  The thing that threw me, was that I knew, ABSOLUTELY, that I had not moved the USB cable to the Roland A-800 Pro midi controller to a different port, because firstly I would never seek to do that, (because I know better), but also because that USB cable and port are literally right in front of me, as the port is on the top of the computer chassis, which sits immediately to the left of the stand holding the midi controller, and it never moved.  It was the accidental moving of the USB cable for the audio interface that actually caused the nightmares for me, and since I hadn't done that move (again, I never would), I naively thought my friend had plugged it back into the same port he had unplugged it from.

SO - my NEW sign going up along the gravel driveway, next to the Trespassers Will Be Shot signs, will add, And So Will USB Cable Shifters!  That should do it. :)

Oh - I also have Ableton, Pro Tools, and Studio One Pro, but had figured that somehow this was all inexplicably connected to USB ports and Windows and CbB, but since I hadn't moved the audio interface cable, I was stumped for a long while.  All good now :) 

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Did Cakewalk show the same midi device names in preferences and in one same order as the other daws when you had the problem?

 

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3 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Did Cakewalk show the same midi device names in preferences and in one same order as the other daws when you had the problem?

 

Hi Noel - I hadn't checked using the other DAW software, but tomorrow, after finishing up the commitments I have, I would be happy to recreate the issue, since I now what caused it - and I can then see the order display of devices in the various recording software suites I have.  Look for me to post this Sunday late afternoon.

Bob Bone

 

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Is there any chance your midi device was assigned to a control surface in preferences?

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Not exactly on topic but pretty similar! I'm a newbe to Cakewalk! I have 3 midi controllers which I'd like to be able to use at the same time. Originally they all had the same device name "USB Midi Controller" so if I selected more than one at a time in Cakewalk's Midi in/out settings, I would be presented with a "device already in use" error message. I have changed the device names in Device Manager (Windows 10) to "MINIKEY", "MINIPAD" and "MINICONTROL" but Cakewalk still shows them all as "USB Midi Controller" so I can still only use one at a time. Does anyone have any suggestions please?

PS Changing the "Friendly Name" in Cakewalk doesn't help... if I change one, it changes all three.

Edited by Mark Norgate
Missed a bit!

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This is interesting - when I used to use my APro 800 with Sonar 8LE I would occasionally get instances when the DAW wouldn't respond to controller midi - sometime keyboard, sometimes controls, sometimes both. Never did discover what the problem was but now thinking it may have been something similar. Haven't had that problem yet with CbB fortunately but possibly because I keep the controller plugged in all the time now!

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