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Mono Plugins problem.

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Hi

After many years of hanging problems in both CPLA and CbBL since it was born, I think I discovered MY problem after several days after a suspicion that appeared by chance. (My OS is Windows 7 and Windows 10, with the same problem in both).
I discovered that these crashes occurred after doing a Bounce to Clip on tracks recorded in MONO (Input Left) and only if I had placed a MONO PLUGIN on any track. (Fabfilter, Waves, etc., etc.).
Track recorded in MONO -> MONO Plugin -> Bounce to Clip on this track or on any other track -> Hang up.
By replacing the PLUGIN MONO with its STEREO version, the problem does not happen again.
I have done many tests on old and new projects and the solution is final.
I do not know if this problem has happened to others, maybe not, but that was my problem and I have seen the light.
I make it public in the forum in case it can be a help for someone.
Best regards  /Antonio

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Antonio, I just tried your steps and could not reproduce the issue.

1. New Project

2. Recorded short clip in mono (clapping)

3. Added Waves API 550B (eq) to FX bin of trk in the TV.

4. Right clicked clip to selected and choose Bounce To Clip.

5. Clip bounced and no hangup.

 

Are my steps the same as what you do?

 

I also tried Bounce to Track and no hang with that either.

I also tried splitting the clip, shifting sections around and then 'Bounce To Clip' and it still worked as expected with no hangs.

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I couldn't reproduce it either, tried several mono Waves plugins.  Perhaps it's something to do with the audio interface he's using?  If Cakewalk hanging is reproducible, a crash dump could be generated which might tell what exactly was hanging.  Here's a post that tells you how to make the crash dump using the task manager:

 

If you generate a crash dump of the hung Cakewalk and put it on the net it so it can be downloaded itwould be easy for some of us to look at and tell you exactly what is hanging.

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Many thanks Grem and Matthew.

I have opened an issue in BandLab and I have sent two Crashes files and ScreenShot of the event.

I appreciate your collaboration.

I was talking about MY problem because it could be mine alone since I have not seen anything similar about it in the forum. I will have you informed in case it is of your interest.

Regards  /Antonio

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Please update this thread if you learn more.  Switching to using only stereo plugins is a good work around (and may be the best that can be done) but software shouldn't crash and it shouldn't hang, if it is, then figuring out why and (hopefully) getting it fixed will help everyone.  Good luck.

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12 minutes ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

Please update this thread if you learn more.

Yes please update. Not only for curiosity's sake, but to help others who may have the same problem.

 

If nothing else, it will show that if you put up steps to produce an issue, others will give it a try to see if it's a issue with them. The more users that can reproduce the issue, the more likely it can/will be fixed.

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18 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Antonio López Zambrano which plugin are you specifically seeing this issue with? If there is a demo or free version available can you share a simple project with me so I can try and reproduce the issue?

@Noel Borthwick - I've managed to reproduce it using Waves Scheps 73 Mono:

  • Record a mono guitar track
  • Insert Waves Scheps 73 Mono in the effects bin 
  • Select the whole track
  • Right click on the clip, and Bounce to clip(s)

I'll PM you the location of the minidump.

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1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Antonio López Zambrano which plugin are you specifically seeing this issue with? If there is a demo or free version available can you share a simple project with me so I can try and reproduce the issue?

Hi Noel. 

I use Waves and FabFilter plugins.

I have uploaded a Dump file and I have described my problem in the special issues page with reference number 209597.

I have done everything you advised me in the EMail that I received, I installed the Cakewalk by BandLab in a new Windows 10 and it is repeated the error (Or hang up or "The audio engine has stopped ....."). I can solve it by not using MONO PLUGINS.

I use Windows 7 and Windows 10 on an Intel 4 Core i5-3470 at 3.2 Ghz and 8 Gigabytes of RAM.

Many thanks Noel. Regards  /Antonio

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1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

@Noel Borthwick - I've managed to reproduce it using Waves Scheps 73 Mono:

  • Record a mono guitar track
  • Insert Waves Scheps 73 Mono in the effects bin 
  • Select the whole track
  • Right click on the clip, and Bounce to clip(s)

I'll PM you the location of the minidump. 

Hi Mark.

In effect, this is how the problem occurs.

I have been with him for a long time even with Sonar Platinum and by chance I noticed that it was only produced in Projects with Mono Plugins. I did the test and voila! there was. I record guitar + BT and that's why it almost always happened to me. Thank you for the tests.

Best regards  /Antonio

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2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@Noel Borthwick - I've managed to reproduce it using Waves Scheps 73 Mono:

  • Record a mono guitar track
  • Insert Waves Scheps 73 Mono in the effects bin 
  • Select the whole track
  • Right click on the clip, and Bounce to clip(s)

I'll PM you the location of the minidump.

If I do this I don't get a hang, it just takes a very long time to process a tiny (4 bar) audio clip then when it comes back the audio engine is completely borked.  It won't stay on and the play transport is all messed up.

But it actually seems to depend on how you make the mono track, which may be why I didn't see it yesterday.  If I start a blank project, add an audio track with the + button and select the left channel of my audio input to make a mono track, if you look in the track inspector the Interleave is stereo. If you toggle that to mono before you do the bounce, it seems to work fine.  But if you leave it set to stereo it goes off the rails.  All the tests I did before I toggled the interleave as part of making the mono track.

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1 hour ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

If I do this I don't get a hang, it just takes a very long time to process a tiny (4 bar) audio clip then when it comes back the audio engine is completely borked.  It won't stay on and the play transport is all messed up.

But it actually seems to depend on how you make the mono track, which may be why I didn't see it yesterday.  If I start a blank project, add an audio track with the + button and select the left channel of my audio input to make a mono track, if you look in the track inspector the Interleave is stereo. If you toggle that to mono before you do the bounce, it seems to work fine.  But if you leave it set to stereo it goes off the rails.  All the tests I did before I toggled the interleave as part of making the mono track. 

Indeed Matthew, there is the problem.

If before you insert a mono plugins you change the INTERLEAVE to MONO the problem no longer occurs and everything works fine.

I have always wondered why this DAW does not include, like others, the possibility of adding a MONO track that will automatically place the INTERLEAVE in MONO. Anyway, taking the precaution of doing it manually, the problems are over.

Thanks for your tests. Let's wait and see what Noel says.

Regards   /Antonio

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I have had issues with the mono/stereo plugins such as the PRS Mono/Stereo.  Supposed to be able use them in mono or stereo but even with the interleave set to Stereo the plugin stays mono. The plugin works as expected in stand alone mode.  There is no stereo version of the PRS, only mono or mono/stereo.

I had started a thread but thought I’d bring it back up with this thread getting more traffic.

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1 hour ago, Blogospherianman said:

I have had issues with the mono/stereo plugins such as the PRS Mono/Stereo.  Supposed to be able use them in mono or stereo but even with the interleave set to Stereo the plugin stays mono. The plugin works as expected in stand alone mode.  There is no stereo version of the PRS, only mono or mono/stereo.

I had started a thread but thought I’d bring it back up with this thread getting more traffic.

I’m not sure but try it (from the manual)

”A mono VST plug-in will work correctly if Enable Mono Processing is checked in the VST Plug-in Properties dialog box and the track interleave is set to mono.
Note: Enable Mono Processing is enabled by default in Cakewalk. If you are playing back a legacy project in Cakewalk and notice the project does not sound the same, try to disable Enable Mono Processing for any mono plug-ins used in the project”.

Try to uncheck this. Luck.

 

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4 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

All the tests I did before I toggled the interleave as part of making the mono track.

 

I did the same thing Matt. Will give it a try later to see if I get your results.

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5 hours ago, Antonio López Zambrano said:

I use ... FabFilter plugins

FabFilter recommends against using their mono plug-ins in new projects. Here is an example from the Pro-DS help

Quote

Both the VST 2 and VST 3 versions of the plug-in automatically adapt themselves to the channel layout of the track they are inserted on (mono/stereo).

For the VST 2 format, there is a separate FabFilter Pro-DS (Mono) version of the plug-in which always runs in mono mode. This is included for backwards compatibility with existing sessions. For new sessions we recommend to use the regular plug-in which automatically adapts itself to the track it is inserted on.

 

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48 minutes ago, Antonio López Zambrano said:

I’m not sure but try it (from the manual)

”A mono VST plug-in will work correctly if Enable Mono Processing is checked in the VST Plug-in Properties dialog box and the track interleave is set to mono.
Note: Enable Mono Processing is enabled by default in Cakewalk. If you are playing back a legacy project in Cakewalk and notice the project does not sound the same, try to disable Enable Mono Processing for any mono plug-ins used in the project”.

Try to uncheck this. Luck.

 

Yeah this doesn’t work, nor does Forcing Stereo operation.  The double nodes never show in the FX bin.  Thanks for your input put though! 👍 I believe this issue requires a fix on Cakewalk’s end.

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51 minutes ago, scook said:

FabFilter recommends against using their mono plug-ins in new projects. Here is an example from the Pro-DS help

 

Thanks scook.

Edited by Antonio López Zambrano

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1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Thanks for the input folks. Sorry I've been slammed with some other stuff but will investigate this soon. 

We are waiting, Noel. Thank you.

Regards  /Antonio

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