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RexRed

Looking for an audio interface?

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I am looking for a new audio interface.

I really don't expect to need more than 8 inputs/outputs

The problem is they all say stuff like 8 in and 8 outputs.

But they all get tricky from there on in.

I use Voice Meeter Potato to route virtual inputs through my DAW to another streaming computer and

though they say they have 8 outputs (depending on the model), 

Usually they only show up with one or two stereo inputs in Voice Meeter Potato. Sometimes a Main input also which combines all outputs.

I am looking for an 8 input and 8 or 4  output audio interface that has 4 "virtual" stereo outputs that I could route out of Cakewalk to Voice Meeter independently.

They make it seem like you are getting 8 outputs but really they are only often giving you one or two virtual stereo outputs into windows through USB.

Does anyone know of an 8 in 4 out to Windows with 4 stereo outputs that would show up in Voice Meeter Potato? 

And then what about a USB mixer instead?

Are there any mixers that have 4 Widows stereo outputs? 

There is the issue of latency and also grounding issues, hooking audio from one computer to another. (it boggles me)

I am thinking about buying the same audio interface each for both computers so I can route audio separately at will from either computer back and forth.

Any ideas here? 

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Posted (edited)

I took the plunge and bought two of these, one for each computer.

BEHRINGER U-Phoria UMC1820

I am making the assumption that at least two stereo outputs will show up in Voice Meeter Potato.

I hope I can route just about anything with these.

It is complicated trying to stream live when you are recording tracks, especially vocal tracks.

How do you handle the vocal record tracking mic? When you also need a mic to talk to people too?

You have to mute one mic when you record so the audio is not doubled and then there is the latency problem where the tracking mic may not be at the same timestamp as the mic routing to the camera and out to the 4k capture. 

I am a bit worried that even these devices are not going to do what I need.

The ability to tap and monitor the vocal mic out of the back of the unit may be what I need.

Edited by RexRed

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Rex,

RME UFX, 12 in (8 line, 4 mic pres) 8 out. Included is RME’s TotalMix software. Amazing level of control, external control available as well. Probably an “order of magnitude” higher price wise. 
AES in and out and ADAT as well. 
RME is famous for its drivers. Top notch mic pres. Pro “kit” without a doubt. 
 

t

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Deering for that tip, RME UFX, 12 in (8 line, 4 mic pres) 8 out! Very pricy interface and it goes to 192khz but I never go above 96khz anyway.

It is a hard choice...

I spent around $550 for two of the Behringer AI's.

Having the line/instrument switch is nice, it allows me to send audio from one box to the other. 

Also having two headphone jacks with independent volumes are a major perk!

I like the sound of the preamps too! They have a warm sound. I hear they are great as long as I do not over push them or rather back off them a little.

I think I got overcharged a bit for them on Amazon but not by much. (Probably $50 bucks each) The times we live in. 

I hope the drivers are not totally bare bones but I think that will be the case. I expect them to work well though.

I don't think they will have a looping feature but with 8 ins and outs I should be able to route most of my needs.

I am tired of jumping hoops to route things with a single stereo in and out.

 I am constantly rerouting things and then setting them back changing between each streaming environment. Now I can arrive at an ultimate setup and just leave it.

Flip a switch and broadcast and all of my audio sources are always just there.

Edited by RexRed

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Posted (edited)

"Mike" (reviewer) wrote this on Sweetwater.

You will not find in any literature that this device cannot run multiple stereo outputs simultaneously.  Only one at a time. I wanted to be able to run multiple stereo pairs out of the umc 1820 interface so I could feed one stereo pair to my rack delay and cabzeus separately for guitar then into my mixer and run the other line outs straight to my mixer. Not  happening. What good are all those outputs without being able to run them simultaneously?? Any additional effects better be in front of the interface or a plug in because its all coming out one output pair. On the plus side this thing sounds great. Better than my old interface which was a surprise since it was what I thought about as good as it gets. If not for the sound improvement this would be a complete waste of my money since it does not do anymore than my old one. if only it had simultaneous output pairs it would be the solution to all my problems. Apparently this issue is not just limited to Behringer umc 1820.  Might need an interface/mixer combo for this to work. lots more money of course.

Comment:

This could be a deal breaker.

Cakewalk should really be able to use multiple sound devices at once. Problem solved...

I feel like we are in the dinosaur age.

Edited by RexRed
editing

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I am seeing a SPDIF out RCA jack it says 9/10.

I bet that is digital out and can be set to allow a second stereo pair to exit the box.

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The limitation to one I/O driver at a time is an ASIO restriction.

Other driver modes to not have this issue.

Some manufacturers support multiple devices using the same ASIO driver. Those having this feature are quick to advertise it.

Regardless of the driver used, running multiple interfaces requires they all use a common clock or the devices will get out of sync.

So what you are looking to do has nothing to do with the DAWs capabilities. 

It is up to the hardware manufacturers.

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Posted (edited)

Thank for that helpful info SCook.

What are the best drivers to get both low latency and be able to route things out to other devices?  

I included this image it pops up as an option in the drive settings.

I am wondering if the Behringer has the same option. 

I toggled the output to  3 + 4 and now the outputs done seem to show up in Windows sound settings.

I am trying to figure this all out. Every time I go to steam live it takes me sometimes up to 2 hours to get all my ins and outs and audio routed.

I stream games, stream live sessions of Cakewalk and stream while i work on 3d art, all of these require a different setup due to different audio routing arrays. 

Having all of my audio interfaces that I am using sync to a certain device's clock does not seem to be that much of a problem. Though, I am not sure of that either. 

 

Signal Flow Roland Quad Capture

Signal Flow Roland Quad Capture.jpg

Edited by RexRed

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Okay I just got the MME 32 drivers to work.

I am getting 20ms latency.

This is a whole new ball of wax.

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One reason I went with RME is they support multiple devices with the same ASIO driver and a common clock. I bought new but like cars, used may be a better value.

Trying to do this with hardware that is not designed from the ground up to work together is a waste of time and money.

Here is a similar thread

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh sure, drag me into it as the poster boy for failure! ;)

Scook said it right - if it would work, they would feature it. Most if any don't.

Edited by Terry Kelley
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If you want the lowest latency, you have to use ASIO drivers. Dedicated ASIO drivers supplied by the manufacturer, not ASIO4ALL.

ASIO only allows one device at a time. That's not a Cakewalk issue, it's part of the ASIO spec.

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25 minutes ago, bdickens said:

ASIO only allows one device at a time

This is inaccurate. 

As I mentioned above, the restriction is one I/O driver at a time not one device at a time. 

There are a few hardware manufacturers that supply ASIO drivers which aggregate multiple devices.

RME, Motu, Roland, Presonus, Lynx, ESI and M-Audio have, at one time, supplied multi-device drivers.

Generally when a device has this capability, the manufacturer makes it very obvious in both their marketing and technical documentation.

 

ASIO4All like other generic ASIO "drivers" can aggregate devices because they wrap WDM drivers and present them to the DAW as a single ASIO driver.

In CbB, WDM driver mode supports multiple devices.

 

Still as noted above, all the hardware must run off the same clock or the signal will get out of sync.

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Posted (edited)

That is amazing information SCook!

I am finding that ASIO is the only driver that is viable in my case.

With broadcast, zero (or close to zero) latency is of the greatest concern so I have synchronization between audio and video sources.

The end product must have the least amount of latency as possible.

From my perspective everything must be built from ASIO on up.

I am finding there is a lot of incorrect information out there.

People tout certain products to consumers to get video views even though those products are not really feasible in a real-time broadcast situation.

The actual way to do live broadcast is perhaps one of the best kept secrets.

There are hundreds of ways to set up a broadcast station, using dual computers and then when you also broadcast in 4k, everything becomes even more specific due to the large data throughput. 

It seems out of hundreds if not more options there is only one right way to do it. That way is not necessarily found in any how-to video.

You have to stumble upon it through trial and error.  Once you find how it is done then it is up to you if you want to share that hard earned process with others. 

😁

Edited by RexRed

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I’m not clear on what your issue is but most new interfaces have a loop back feature that was added because so many people need to live stream audio from audio software. 
I can screen capture or live stream from my Motu M4 while running Cakewalk in ASIO mode. 

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After buying two UMC 1820s for nearly 600 dollars I emailed Behringer asking for a simple block diagram of the device and they replied, "We only provide block diagrams to "partners" not customers".

...out of 40 years I have never bought a mixer without a block diagram. Many mixers have them printed somewhere on the mixer itself!

A device as complex as this and no signal flow diagram?

I have a month to return them to Amazon...

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You didn’t read my post. You need an interface with loop back for streaming   Those Behringers don’t look like they do. 
 

 

Edited by John Vere
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The RME UFX can be purchased Used on Reverb.com for  about $1100.
Its not "cheap", I would quiz the seller why they are selling.
If they upgraded to the UFX II or UFX+ you're probably good to go.
(I upgraded to the UFX+ and sold my UFX on Reverb)
The UFX has been around awhile, but RME keeps the drivers "up to date".

Its a fine piece of "kit"!

The TotalMix software is a bit "complicated" at first, like any good console is.
Once you wrap your head around it, you don't know how you lived without it.

t

you pays yer money and ya takes your choice...

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When I got my RME 6 months or so ago, the RME UFX was (still is!) out of my price range, so I got the RME Digiface USB.  It really is a bargain at around £325 - £300.  US price is around $500.

TotalMix comes with it but with the dynamics/EQ etc disabled, and you get the same high quality RME drivers.

It's got 4 x ADAT in and 4 x ADAT out,  so that's 32 in's and out's at 44.1/48K, 16 i/o at 96K, or 8 i/o at 192K.

Of course you need Mic Pre's to ADAT converters  ( e.g. Behringer ADA8200, Focusrite OctoPre etc) to actually get audio in, but personally I see this as a plus point. You can start off with low cost converters - even just one of them (giving you 8 ins & outs), then add or upgrade as necessary.

I personally use old Fostex VC8's, as I only need line level I/O (  I mainly use my A&H MixWizard / Alice 828 as mic pre's running the direct channel outs to the VC8's), but I've got the choice of upgrading if I need to at a later date.
 

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