Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 24, 2021 So simply put, I'm trying to create a MIDI groove clip that's 7 eight-notes long, while in a 4/4 project. There *has* to be a way to do this, but even when I have the clip length correct, and the correct area of the timeline selected, etc, on converting the MIDI clip to a MIDI groove clip, it changes it to 8 eighth-notes long. How do I keep it from changing the clip length? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colin Nicholls 735 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) Make the groove clip a multiple of quarter notes. Repeat the loop twice within the clip if you have to, or ad a variant to taste. You can totally do it. Edited March 24, 2021 by Colin Nicholls Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lapasoa 111 Posted March 24, 2021 Simply delete the eight note. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twelvetone 29 Posted March 24, 2021 56/8 time sig. You put your 4/4 every 14 beats and your 7/8 every 8 beats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 24, 2021 4 hours ago, lapasoa said: Simply delete the eight note. There is no eighth note on the 'and' of four. The clip is 7 eight notes long. 'Groove clip looping' it makes it 8 eighth notes long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 24, 2021 18 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said: Make the groove clip a multiple of quarter notes. Repeat the loop twice within the clip if you have to, or ad a variant to taste. You can totally do it. 8 minutes ago, twelvetone said: 56/8 time sig. You put your 4/4 every 14 beats and your 7/8 every 8 beats I need to know how to create a non-time-signature-length MIDI groove clip. Is that making sense? In other words, these are the kludge workarounds I'm trying to avoid. I should say that I'm used to the MIDI pattern editor in Project 5 (remember her?) and it was so easy. You just dragged the length handle over to how long you wanted the pattern file to be, and then when it was ready you 'exported' it onto the timeline. Still wishing Cakewalk/Sonar had implemented that. I appreciate the responses! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twelvetone 29 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) I've never had the pleasure but every now and so often someone here waxes lyrical about Project 5. Clearly had cool creative ideas in it. Bakers? I often do triplet pop/irish and use 36-based time sigs. Goes into 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12 and 18 Edited March 24, 2021 by twelvetone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteveC 183 Posted March 25, 2021 It does look like MIDI groove clips are 1/4 note based. I created a single 7/8 MIDI clip in a 7/8 time signature, and groove clipping caused the clip length to auto-snap to a quarter note value. So like Colin said you need to work in 1/4 increments; i.e., in 7/4 instead of 7/8. Or... instead of groove clipping use the Duplicate command. If you do that be sure to disable the Current Snap Settings option under Preferences > Editing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blogospherianman 76 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) Groove clips only go to whole beats. Since 7/8 is only 3.5 beats (to the groove clip looper) , it gets confused. (It can’t even groove clip loop 7/8 in the meter of 7/8 as it still doesn’t consider the 1/8 note getting 1 beat) You can as suggested copy the first 7/8 bit to where it goes (the ‘And’ of beat 4), making a total of 7 beats that end on beat 3 of the second bar. Bounce those two clips into one clip, then groove clip loop that. It works perfectly then! Edited March 26, 2021 by Blogospherianman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 6:38 PM, twelvetone said: I've never had the pleasure but every now and so often someone here waxes lyrical about Project 5. Clearly had cool creative ideas in it. Bakers? I often do triplet pop/irish and use 36-based time sigs. Goes into 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12 and 18 Yeah for working with MIDI it was fast and intuitive. Lacked serious audio tools. If they'd just upgraded it to x64 I'd be using it still, rewired into Sonar. If I could get it to run on this machine I'm currently on, which I can't, I would write the piece of music in MIDI in P5, save out the MIDI clips (which you can do) and import them into Sonar (which you can do) I may try uninstalling and reinstalling, as I have all the installers on a NAS drive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Blogospherianman said: Groove clips only go to whole beats. Since 7/8 is only 3.5 beats (to the groove clip looper) , it gets confused. (It can’t even groove clip loop 7/8 in the meter of 7/8 as it still doesn’t consider the 1/8 note getting 1 beat) You can as suggested copy the first 7/8 bit to where it goes (the ‘And’ of beat 4), making a total of 7 beats that end on beat 3 of the second bar. Bounce those two clips into one clip, then groove clip loop that. It works perfectly then! It's so frustrating that they've built in that limitation. Leaving aside that 7/8 is not 3.5 beats, it's either seven beats, or it's 2+2+3 or 3+2+2 or whatever, there's really no reason for the groove clip creation process to be making decisions about the length of the clip for me. Thanks for responding though, I appreciate it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 8:58 PM, SteveC said: It does look like MIDI groove clips are 1/4 note based. I created a single 7/8 MIDI clip in a 7/8 time signature, and groove clipping caused the clip length to auto-snap to a quarter note value. So like Colin said you need to work in 1/4 increments; i.e., in 7/4 instead of 7/8. Or... instead of groove clipping use the Duplicate command. If you do that be sure to disable the Current Snap Settings option under Preferences > Editing. h This raises an interesting possibility... just using 7/4 at a ludicrously fast tempo. I'm a little hesitant since I'm going to be driving outboard hardware synths, and I'm new to that, and I'm not sure how their tempo functions will respond... Thanks for responding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Byron Dickens 1,556 Posted March 26, 2021 They won't care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobertWS 541 Posted March 26, 2021 1 hour ago, bdickens said: They won't care. Because they are machines! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msmcleod 3,757 Posted March 26, 2021 I rarely use groove clips myself, but I do use 7/8 a lot and in some cases change time signatures every few bars or so. This is what I would do: 1. Do what @Colin Nicholls suggested - make it twice the length so it's aligned to 1/4 notes, then slip edit the clip back to 3.5 beats long 2. Change the time signature for that bar to 7/8, setting the time signature back to 4/4 on the next bar. This will mean everything is properly measure aligned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvideo 38 Posted March 26, 2021 I wish it were more clear to me what the role of this 7/8 loop is in this 4/4 project. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted May 11, 2021 On 3/26/2021 at 2:53 PM, bvideo said: I wish it were more clear to me what the role of this 7/8 loop is in this 4/4 project. ...polymeter? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Baay 1,050 Posted May 12, 2021 I'm also curious about the need for a 7/8 groove-clip in a 4/4 project. In any case, I would just blow off the groove-clip feature entirely, make a regular MIDI clip that's 7/8 long, and copy-paste as needed with snap at an 8th or with landmarks enabled to snap to clip boundaries. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msmcleod 3,757 Posted May 12, 2021 8 hours ago, David Baay said: I'm also curious about the need for a 7/8 groove-clip in a 4/4 project. In any case, I would just blow off the groove-clip feature entirely, make a regular MIDI clip that's 7/8 long, and copy-paste as needed with snap at an 8th or with landmarks enabled to snap to clip boundaries. ^^^ This is the best method IMO. Use Bounce to clip(s) on the groove clip to make it a regular clip, then slip edit back an 1/8th note. Once it's a regular clip, you can use duplicate clips ( CTRL + D ) to make extra copies of the clip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Agincourtdb 2 Posted May 16, 2021 On 5/12/2021 at 5:10 AM, msmcleod said: ^^^ This is the best method IMO. Use Bounce to clip(s) on the groove clip to make it a regular clip, then slip edit back an 1/8th note. Once it's a regular clip, you can use duplicate clips ( CTRL + D ) to make extra copies of the clip. Yeah. Thanks for the help guys. I guess I'm doing this the hard way 😢 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites