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Simon Wilkinson

Feature Request: Ability to select default node type when automating envelopes

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I posted this issue here about problems when write automating envelopes using a control surface and getting a smooth envelope:
 


It would be great to have the option to select a default envelope node style when recording write automation (e.g. jump/linear/fast curve/slow curve). Or at least to be able to highlight multiple envelope nodes and bulk change them all to a certain type.

At present it's almost not worth using a control surface for this sort of thing and would make workflow so much easier!

It also seems to show there's a bug when you right click to drag select a bunch of nodes and then press delete on the keyboard. It doesn't delete all the nodes you've highlighted and leaves a few behind that you have to right click select again and press delete a 2nd time.

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I filed a feature regarding "smoothing" out or simplifying automation nodes, for a very similar reason. 

I don't recall mine ever jumping like this. My envelopes nodes from when I had a control surface were always connected, just way too busy, so I'd have to smooth them out. 

I have notices that the snap settings seem to affect things in weird ways sometimes. Try turning snap on / off and see if the same thing happens. 

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17 hours ago, Josh Wolfer said:

Try turning snap on / off and see if the same thing happens. 

Thanks for the suggestion Josh but I just tried it with Snap on and off and it didn't help.

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On 10/8/2020 at 10:05 AM, Simon Wilkinson said:

I posted this issue here about problems when write automating envelopes using a control surface and getting a smooth envelope:
 


It would be great to have the option to select a default envelope node style when recording write automation (e.g. jump/linear/fast curve/slow curve). Or at least to be able to highlight multiple envelope nodes and bulk change them all to a certain type.

At present it's almost not worth using a control surface for this sort of thing and would make workflow so much easier!

It also seems to show there's a bug when you right click to drag select a bunch of nodes and then press delete on the keyboard. It doesn't delete all the nodes you've highlighted and leaves a few behind that you have to right click select again and press delete a 2nd time.

Isn't there a setting under control surfaces in preferences for this? I think cakewalk sets this to default for "surgical" writing purposes. 

Will have to look into this when I'm at studio again. I don't have a control surface at home. 

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3 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Isn't there a setting under control surfaces in preferences for this? I think cakewalk sets this to default for "surgical" writing purposes. 

Will have to look into this when I'm at studio again. I don't have a control surface at home. 

I don't have anything like that under Prefs/Control Surfaces:

 

prefs.jpg

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On 10/15/2020 at 9:40 AM, Simon Wilkinson said:

I don't have anything like that under Prefs/Control Surfaces:

 

prefs.jpg

Yeah - I just checked now at home. There's nothing like that. I might be mistakenly thinking of another DAW where you can even it out just by holding a key down. 

What if you landmark your automation nodes under the Customization > Snap to Grid TAB? Then try and hold down either Shift; Ctrl or Alt individually or combine them as you write in your Automation? 

Just trying to help with some idea's - I swear I've done something like this. Just not sure if it's with Cakewalk?

Urgh!!! Middle-age is creeping up on me - sigh.  😣😢

 

Edited by Will_Kaydo
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10 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Yeah - I just checked now at home. There's no like that. I might be mistakenly thinking of another DAW where you can even it our just by a key down. 

What if you landmark your automation nodes under the Customization > Snap to Grid TAB? Than try and hold down either Shift; Ctrl or Alt individually or combine them as you writein your Automation? 

Just trying to help with some idea's - i swear I've done something like this. Just not sure if it's with Cakewalk?

Urgh!!! Middle-age is creeping up on me - sigh.  😣😢

 

Lol, I appreciate the help Will!

I'll take a look at your Landmark nodes suggestion in a bit. That's something I wasn't really aware of for nodes.

Trying to speed up my workflow by using a MIDI controller but I feel like I should just work around it for now and get stuff down. Before my middle-age turns to senility and becomes its own landmark node ;) 

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52 minutes ago, Simon Wilkinson said:

Lol, I appreciate the help Will!

Trying to speed up my workflow by using a MIDI controller but I feel like I should just work around it for now and get stuff down.

I need to look more into this at the studio I work at. They use 5 DAWS and CbB is one of them.  

Sorry I couldn't help with this. I was so sure that it was possible. 

1 hour ago, Simon Wilkinson said:

Before my middle-age turns to senility and becomes its own landmark node ;) 

Lol. 

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@Simon Wilkinson I've found something that might help a little bit. 

After writing in your automation with your midi/control surface, choose the "Erase Tool" by using shortcut "T" on your keyboard, or scroll up to the "Tools Module" ~ OR ~ just hit F10, Press Ctr+Alt to select the nodes within the envelope "bounce the clip" and drag over the nodes you want to remove. The only problem is you have to "Bounce" the clip every time.

That might be a bug.

@msmcleod Can you help with this perhaps to check if it's a bug or not? 

Ps: Correct! Precision is key here. So you have to be zoomed in a bit. 

NOPE! THERE'S A BUG!

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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You'll probably get more consistent results recording automation in Latch mode:

image.png.456644cfa8e79dd1a10f3ff2aae7249d.png

This will stop the jumps from being created when recording automation.  Notice the "W" button has an "L" in the corner rather than "T".

An explanation of the automation modes can be found here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Automation.04.html

...but in essence, if you're creating automation for the first time on a track use Latch or Overwrite mode.  Touch mode is more for tweaking existing automation, but to be honest, you'll probably find it easier sticking with Latch mode even for altering existing envelopes. The only gotcha is remembering to move your fader to the correct position when you stop your edits, and of course stopping the transport so it doesn't overwrite the remaining automation.

@Will_Kaydo  / @Simon Wilkinson -  I did manage to repro your delete issue twice, but had difficulty reproducing again.  What I did notice was that once the Jumps were all changed to Linear, the issue went away.  So it looks like there's a corner case where it sometimes gets confused with jumps between nodes. We'll look into it. In the meantime,  you can always delete the remaining nodes in a second pass.

For the meantime though, give Latch mode a try and see if this works better for you.
 

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24 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

We'll look into it. In the meantime,  you can always delete the remaining nodes in a second pass.
 

Awesome!

Hope this will help @Simon Wilkinson who want's to make use of this with his X-Touch control surface.  

I'm comfortable with adding them in manually - prefer it that way. 

Really appreciate the help @msmcleod

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

You'll probably get more consistent results recording automation in Latch mode:

Bingo! That's perfect, thanks so much Mark. At first I thought it wasn't going to work as it still looks very 'stepped' while you're recording the write automation but as soon as you stop it automatically smooths the nodes out. Just what I need :)

I've been a Sonar/CbB user for years but goes to show there's so much stuff under the hood that I'm just not aware of!

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, now back to the music...

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On 10/15/2020 at 8:53 AM, msmcleod said:

You'll probably get more consistent results recording automation in Latch mode:

image.png.456644cfa8e79dd1a10f3ff2aae7249d.png

This will stop the jumps from being created when recording automation.  Notice the "W" button has an "L" in the corner rather than "T".

An explanation of the automation modes can be found here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Automation.04.html

...but in essence, if you're creating automation for the first time on a track use Latch or Overwrite mode.  Touch mode is more for tweaking existing automation, but to be honest, you'll probably find it easier sticking with Latch mode even for altering existing envelopes. The only gotcha is remembering to move your fader to the correct position when you stop your edits, and of course stopping the transport so it doesn't overwrite the remaining automation.

@Will_Kaydo  / @Simon Wilkinson -  I did manage to repro your delete issue twice, but had difficulty reproducing again.  What I did notice was that once the Jumps were all changed to Linear, the issue went away.  So it looks like there's a corner case where it sometimes gets confused with jumps between nodes. We'll look into it. In the meantime,  you can always delete the remaining nodes in a second pass.

For the meantime though, give Latch mode a try and see if this works better for you.
 

O. M. G.

Once again, whenever I think I know damn near everything about cakewalk, I learn something new.. this is awesome. Thank you!

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1 hour ago, Josh Wolfer said:

O. M. G.

Once again, whenever I think I know damn near everything about cakewalk, I learn something new.. this is awesome. Thank you!

Priceless reaction. 😂

Yeah! Seems like we either learn new stuff or arrogantly forget the power and flexibility this DAW holds. 

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Changing this to latch has fixed most of my grievances with write automation on plugins when I'm using the mouse. It's still not 100% amazing, but it's like 80% and I'll take that over "WTF is this garbage", any day :D

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57 minutes ago, Josh Wolfer said:

I'll take that over "WTF is this garbage", any day :D

Yeah! The "Wednesday, Thursday and Friday" confusion suck! 😂😂

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