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Hi, I hope you understand taking great care

My question regarding the midi output settings. Basically I want to be able to use a single vst as the omnisphere and configure the midi output to be able to have sound on another channel but without having to open the omnisphere again, This I have seen that they do it in Ableton or Fl to save Cpu and I don't know if It will be applicable to cakewalk, I think I'll see it before in cakewalk but I honestly don't remember

Thank you

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Posted (edited)

First, the source VST must be capable of MIDI out. Cakewalk can allow MIDI out from a VST, but only if the VST supports it.

Here is an example using Kontakt Player, which is capable:

Step 1. Enable MIDI out from the VST settings.

Step 2. Enable MIDI out in the Cakewalk Plugin window VST options pull down menu.

Step 3.  Select the new MIDI input source and channel on another instrument or MIDI track.

 

Kontakt MIDI Out.PNG

Cakewalk MIDI Out.PNG

Soft Synth MIDI Input.PNG

Edited by abacab
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Posted (edited)

With other VSTs, open the GUI, click the VST2 or VST3 dropdown in the top row of the window. If the VST can do MIDI out you will be able to enable it. If it isn't already enabled.

Then insert a MIDI track. Set its input to the MIDI out of that VST. Set its output to whichever VST you want.

Edited by Nigel Mackay

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Synths that can send MIDI have MIDI out is enabled by default.

Effects that can send MIDI have MIDI out disabled by default.

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

With other VSTs, open the GUI, click the VST2 or VST3 dropdown in the top row of the window. If the VST can do MIDI out you will be able to enable it. If it isn't already enabled.

 

The guidelines scook posted are regarding the Cakewalk setup. You will still need to check the options in the  instrument itself, as in my first pic above.

 One example is the Ample Sound instruments. MIDI output is internally off by default. May likely vary by developer. I don't think there is a standard, and many instruments don't even offer that feature. But it is quite useful if an instrument has an internal arpeggiator, sequencer, or a riffer. 😁

Edited by abacab

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Enable MIDI Out is in the Insert Synth dialog, and is on by default. Switch it on once and it will be on always from then on.

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1 minute ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Enable MIDI Out is in the Insert Synth dialog, and is on by default.

Yes and this can cause problems for new users because this option along with the "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" (which is enabled by default too) can cause MIDI data from one track to unexpectedly appear on other tracks. Especially confusing when users set instrument and MIDI track inputs to None.

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12 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Enable MIDI Out is in the Insert Synth dialog, and is on by default. Switch it on once and it will be on always from then on.

Yes but that doesn't switch it on in the VST instrument's internal options. Another step that is required.

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Most of the synths I use do not require an extra step in the plug-in to send MIDI data.

It would be nice if all synth did require configuration. It would help avoid the problem I mentioned above.

 

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Lots of solid advice on how to enable MIDI output from plug-ins.

I hope that it helps the OP achieve their goal of having sound on another channel without having to open Omnisphere again, and thereby conserve CPU resources.

I'm not sure how merely enabling MIDI output is going to further either of those goals, though. Were it me, I would be investigating Omnisphere's multitimbral capabilities. That would satisfy the one criterion of not having to open another instance of Omnisphere, and it would allow for having notes on  2 channels.

To do that, wouldn't they set up a single instance of Omnisphere on an Instrument Track, with 2 MIDI Tracks, each set to a different MIDI channel, and outputs set to the Omnisphere?

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55 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I'm not sure how merely enabling MIDI output is going to further either of those goals, though. Were it me, I would be investigating Omnisphere's multitimbral capabilities. That would satisfy the one criterion of not having to open another instance of Omnisphere, and it would allow for having notes on  2 channels.

To do that, wouldn't they set up a single instance of Omnisphere on an Instrument Track, with 2 MIDI Tracks, each set to a different MIDI channel, and outputs set to the Omnisphere?

Well the topic of the post was "MIDI out", so proceeded to answer that one.

If the topic had been "How to send MIDI channels to a multi-timbral VST", would have gone that way.

By the way, the OP liked my answer, even though the question wasn't entirely clear, as you pointed out. Possibly an English translation thing?

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Yeah, that's what I picked up. After parsing it some more, it looked more like what he was trying to accomplish was a multitimbral setup. Was I correct on how to do a multitimbral setup? I only ever tried it once, with Xpand! and I couldn't get the second channel to make a sound.

Out of curiosity I looked at Omnisphere's manual and they say that with DAW's that support multicore processing for plug-ins, it's actually a better strategy to just slap an instance on every channel where you're using it because the DAW will load balance more efficiently. So a multitimbral approach can be more expensive in a well-designed DAW like Cakewalk. That single instance of Omnisphere will be working twice as hard and on one core rather than cruising on two.

Ah well, it's surely a useful thread for someone looking to get MIDI out from their plug-ins!

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1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

The easiest way to do it is like this:

omnisphere_multitimbral.gif

Was that all  "MIDI out" from Omnisphere?

I don't own it, just curious...

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4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

 Was I correct on how to do a multitimbral setup? I only ever tried it once, with Xpand! and I couldn't get the second channel to make a sound.

Out of curiosity I looked at Omnisphere's manual and they say that with DAW's that support multicore processing for plug-ins, it's actually a better strategy to just slap an instance on every channel where you're using it because the DAW will load balance more efficiently. So a multitimbral approach can be more expensive in a well-designed DAW like Cakewalk. That single instance of Omnisphere will be working twice as hard and on one core rather than cruising on two.

Yes, you were correct with the multi-timbral setup. It usually works with Xpand!2, so I don't understand why you had an issue with it. But I frequently use it with SampleTank and/or Kontakt Player. Both are 16 channel multi-timbral, like TTS-1, but capable of much more interesting instrument sounds! 😉

Your 2nd point regarding multiple instances is a good one. I have found that using multi-timbral mode in the latest version of SampleTank 4 MAX brings my DAW to its knees with more than 2 or 3 tracks.   Apparently the plugin instance flows most or all of the signal processing through a single core.

Since IK Multimedia  has optimized the memory footprint of the ST4 plugin, it would probably be advisable to use multiple instances of the plugin, rather than load up one instance multi-timbrally. Unless you are running the latest multicore beast CPU. Plus with multiple instances you always have the option to freeze any tracks you are not working with at the moment, thus freeing up mucho CPU!

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9 hours ago, abacab said:

Was that all  "MIDI out" from Omnisphere?

I don't own it, just curious...

Omnisphere is 8 channel multi-timbral.  The setup part in the Multi tab is to route each channel to a separate audio out, so each instrument track is  (a) on it's own MIDI separate channel and (b) on its own separate audio track...  but yeah, they're all going to the same omnisphere instance.
 

9 hours ago, abacab said:

Yes, you were correct with the multi-timbral setup. It usually works with Xpand!2, so I don't understand why you had an issue with it. But I frequently use it with SampleTank and/or Kontakt Player. Both are 16 channel multi-timbral, like TTS-1, but capable of much more interesting instrument sounds! 😉

Your 2nd point regarding multiple instances is a good one. I have found that using multi-timbral mode in the latest version of SampleTank 4 MAX brings my DAW to its knees with more than 2 or 3 tracks.   Apparently the plugin instance flows most or all of the signal processing through a single core.

Since IK Multimedia  has optimized the memory footprint of the ST4 plugin, it would probably be advisable to use multiple instances of the plugin, rather than load up one instance multi-timbrally. Unless you are running the latest multicore beast CPU. Plus with multiple instances you always have the option to freeze any tracks you are not working with at the moment, thus freeing up mucho CPU!

Omnisphere (which the OP was querying about) is actually pretty good with cores... so one instance works well vs multiple instances....  Kontakt is the same, if it's set up properly.

But as you say, you do lose the ability to individually freeze each track - it's none or all of them.

 

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7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Omnisphere (which the OP was querying about) is actually pretty good with cores... so one instance works well vs multiple instances....  Kontakt is the same, if it's set up properly.

This was a suggestion from the manual, they said if the DAW has the ability to do per-core plug-in load balancing that multiple instances will probably be less expensive.

This has piqued my curiosity: if Omnisphere is able to use multiple cores and Cakewalk is able to do load balancing, I wonder how those two things affect each other. I mean, does Cakewalk's load balancing affect Omnisphere's engine's ability to access cores other than the one it gets assigned to, is Omnisphere going to use only that core?

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39 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

This was a suggestion from the manual, they said if the DAW has the ability to do per-core plug-in load balancing that multiple instances will probably be less expensive.

This has piqued my curiosity: if Omnisphere is able to use multiple cores and Cakewalk is able to do load balancing, I wonder how those two things affect each other. I mean, does Cakewalk's load balancing affect Omnisphere's engine's ability to access cores other than the one it gets assigned to, is Omnisphere going to use only that core?

Cakewalk only does load balancing on VST effects... not on VSTi synths.

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@msmcleod @Morten Saether,

Is there any chance the two of you can get the meat of this thread into the Cakewalk by BandLab Reference Guide?  I searched the guide and can not find any details about how to set up the outputs of a multi-channel VSTi in CbB.   The topic seems to be raised fairly often.

Plus, it will be easier for me to print the instructions and have them on hand when I'm offline.  :)

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30 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

@msmcleod @Morten Saether,

Is there any chance the two of you can get the meat of this thread into the Cakewalk by BandLab Reference Guide?  I searched the guide and can not find any details about how to set up the outputs of a multi-channel VSTi in CbB.   The topic seems to be raised fairly often.

Plus, it will be easier for me to print the instructions and have them on hand when I'm offline.  :)

@Jim Fogle - when you same multi-channel outputs, do you mean audio outputs?

The video I posted earlier in this thread shows how to do this for Omnisphere. 

Unfortunately the process is different for every VSTi, so you'll need to refer to the user guide for each VSTi.

I'm sure I did a similar one for Kontakt at some point... I'll try to dig it out.

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