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Roland-Music

How to True Stereo Pan NOT just balancing

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Posted (edited)

I have found no settings in Preferences or other topics in the manual how true stereo pan works. The Pan nub is only balancing.

In other DAW's you have TWO, nubs: Pan CENTER and Pan WIDTH or you can select between stereo and mono Pan?

How does it work in CbB?

2020-06-20_pan.png

Edited by Roland-Music

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You have surround pan in Cakewalk.

What I think you mean by true stereo pan - is not there AFAIK(without a plugin of some sort).

But to get binaural, virtual surround on stereo, I use Wavearts Panorama 6.

But Waves S1(included in Gold bundle) also do this kind of true stereo panning, like getting a stereo between 1100-1400 hours or similar, but nothing built in. I do on like leslie for hammond stuff so not everything is full stereo.

Have not looked at stock plugins, if anything there of this sort.

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Posted (edited)

SONAR Professional and Platinum owners have Channel Tools

Free alternatives are available such as

MUtility part of the MFreeFXBundle

A1StereoControl

 

Edit: CbB includes Channel Tools as of 2020.08

 

Edited by scook
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There are also various pan laws one can apply in Cakewalk that change how pan works.  

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Grab the Pan Knob from Boz Digital Labs. It has two modes, balance and pan, with the latter being a true stereo pan function.

There are other stereo panners out there, but this is the best one I've found. It keeps low frequencies centered (you can set the crossover frequency) and lets you specify the pan law. It's an essential plugin for me and goes on every stereo track.

If the $49 price tag puts you off, just be patient; Boz has frequent sales.

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Posted (edited)

"True Stereo Panning" caught my eye because I had no idea what that could possibly mean.  But rather than ask, I looked it up.  As best as I can tell, it refers to the ability to put an audio source any place between 100%Left/0%Right and 0%Left/100%RIght.  Evidently if the source is stereo, balance becomes something like % of the left-side signal being routed to the left output [or bus] v. % of the right-side signal being routed to the right output [or bus].

Just trying to understand here.  Do I have it right?

 

Edited by User 905133
(2) missing comma inserted; (1) typo fixed

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, scook said:

SONAR Professional and Platinum owners have Channel Tools

Okay, many thanks - that explain everything, the "Free" Cakewalk Version is limited in some positions...  I take a look at all posted Plugins

For all who don't understand the "True Stereo Pan" - here is a Video that explain it.

https://youtu.be/uj_fxy_4mAM

Edited by Roland-Music

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Yes. The standard balance control on a hi-fi consists of two ganged volume potentiometers wired in reverse of one another. When you spin the knob, it turns one side up and the other side down. Its purpose is to compensate for asymmetrical speaker placement.

Cakewalk's pan slider works the same way on stereo tracks. That has limitations, because if there are significant differences between the content of the left and right channels, you could lose important information. For example, a Leslie speaker in stereo would lose some of its effect with a balance control.

"True" stereo panning means you treat each side as a mono signal and pan them in a complementary fashion. Pan to the left, and the right channel moves to the left but does not reduce in volume. The result is still stereophonic in nature but now shifted toward one side. In the Leslie example, it's as if the speaker is situated to one side of the stage but still broadcasting in 360 degrees as expected.

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6 minutes ago, Roland-Music said:

Okay, many thanks - that explain everything, the "Free" Cakewalk Version is limited in some positions...  I take a look at all posted Plugins

For all who don't understand the "True Stereo Pan" - here is a Video that explain it.

https://youtu.be/uj_fxy_4mAM

Yet the "Free" Cakewalk version is far advanced in so many ways compared to other daws

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Imagine a true stereo source on stage, such as a drum kit. I call it true stereo because sound emanates from more than one place. Now imagine scooting the whole kit over to one side of the stage. You still want it to be stereo, just moved over. The floor tom that had been panned 10% right might now be in the center, and the kick that had been centered is now 10% left. That's true stereo panning.

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I always wished that the Channel Tools could be somehow implemented into Cakewalk's channel strip. Make it a "preferences"/"advanced"/etc. button nearby the pan pot that will expand it to the floating Channel Tools for example, sort of what we can do when expanding the QuadCurve EQ in PC.

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You can do it yourself

From @Craig Anderton's post http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3755601 on the old forum

Quote

Add Pro Tools-Style Dual Panpots to SONAR  
 
From time to time, some people wish that like Pro Tools, SONAR had separate panpots for the left and right channels. The reason why Pro Tools has two panpots is because it traditionally treated stereo as two mono sources, very much like the hardware mixing consoles that were common in the mid- to late-20th century. Like most DAWs, SONAR does understand the difference between stereo and mono signals. This is why for mono tracks the panpot acts like a traditional panpot, but for stereo signals, it acts like a balance control.  
 
However there are advantages to the dual panpot approach, as it allows “weighting” the stereo image more to the left, right, or center. The ultimate solution is the Channel Tools plug-in, which not only allows each channel to pan anywhere in the stereo field, but also has a Width control so that each channel can spread across part of the stereo field, or all of it.  
 
While flexible, you might not want to have to open up Channel Tools to do this kind of advanced panning. However, it’s possible to integrate Channel Tools’ functionality right into the Console View’s channel strips by using the Channel Strip’s “Show Assignable Controls” option. 
 
1. Insert Channel Tools into the track’s FX Rack.
2. In the Console View, choose Options > FX > Show Assignable Controls.
3. Four sliders appear below Channel Tools.
4. Right-click on a slider, choose Re-Assign Control, and assign it to the appropriate Channel Tools control. I assigned Width to the top two sliders, and Angle (pan) to the lower two sliders, but assign the sliders in whatever way makes sense to you.
5. With Channel Tools visible, adjust the sliders and observe the effect on the Channel Tools controls so you get a feel of how they work. 6. Now close the Channel Tools GUI to get it out of the way, and use the Assignable Controls.
 
If you want all your channels to have these kinds of panpots, Ctrl+Drag the Channel Tools label from one channel’s FX Rack into another channel’s FX Rack. The same slider assignments will now appear in the copy—Ctrl+Drag into as many channels as you want. (You may want to create a track template around this if you’re fond of the dual pan pots approach.)
 
If you put another plug-in in the FX Rack, then you can assign sliders to four parameters in that plug-in as well. To see the Channel Tools assignable controls, just click on the Channel Tools label in the FX Rack. The Assignable Controls will follow whichever plug-in has the focus. And of course, if you want to see the results of your tweaking in a more visual fashion, just double-click on the Channel Tools plug-in to open the GUI and see the changes your tweaks are making.
 
So…not only do you have all the functionality of dual panpots, but an additional Width control that does more than the Pro Tools dual panpots can do.

 

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21 minutes ago, scook said:

You can do it yourself

From @Craig Anderton's post http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3755601 on the old forum

 

That's exactly what I wished we could have backed in the channel strip as an alternative to the "inferior" pan pot, and not having to make it ourself :DGreat writing from Craig.

Btw I've just spotted that if I have both assignable controls and Channel Tools gui visible, moving assignable control does update plugin gui but moving controls on plugin gui does not update assignable controls correctly.

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I get the difference between panning and balance in stereo tracks, but what exactly are the width controls doing in Channel Tools?

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This is a very interesting subject. Something I have overlooked. I remix my bands jam sessions and I had been panning the two guitars left and right without thinking about it. But the guitars are stereo tracks coming from stereo multi effect pedals. So, if I understand correctly, I am essentialy cutting  a channel from each guitar! Aaarh!

Could we achieve true panning using two mono tracks instead of a stereo track and panning each track as needed?

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Yes. 

6 hours ago, Jacques Boileau said:

Could we achieve true panning using two mono tracks instead of a stereo track and panning each track as needed?

Yes indeed!

That's really what a stereo panner is doing, since a stereo track is just two mono streams interleaved together. You can avoid the whole problem by recording your stereo guitars into two mono tracks rather than a single stereo track. The downside to that method is it makes automation, compression and EQ more complicated because everything's duplicated.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

 The downside to that method is it makes automation, compression and EQ more complicated because everything's duplicated.

 

Could one avoid the problems by routing the tracks to the same bus and automating the bus?

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