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Ampeg or not Ampeg

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Nothing really compares to playing through a "Real" SVT for the instrument dynamics that I have found - there is a certain natural compression to the tube pre-amp that translates to how it handles different amplitude level of playing soft vs hard (from passive pickups anyway) that I have never felt on any emulation no matter how much they claimed to have modeled the original circuit. I call it "Smoosh" and just chalk it up to "Analog vs. Digital" 

That said, there is also nothing compared to having to move or lift a "Real" SVT either.   And if you ever play in a band with a SVT AND an B3 - I guarantee every gig you will book will be on the second floor with a broken elevator.  (been there, done that, had the hernia surgery) And Ampeg somehow manages to consistently make the heaviest cabinets with the worst casters in the industry. You also could license every possible emulator and still save money on what a re-tube would re-cost.

All that said, the IK sounds pretty fine for what it is. I've used it in a pinch but generally I mic the real thing and mix it with the DI signal old school style. 

Edited by StudioNSFW

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:07 AM, Carlos said:

Yes, I love Darkglass myself. And Overloud's Mark II Studio. 😁
Honest, you're a pro mixer, right? I guess you know better (but me as making my own stuff for myself only, working with anything PA is not fun at all, to say the least, sound wise that is. To me all some PA amps, guitar or bass, sound tinny and harsh and bright, even if you try to darken the sound). I like some guitar PA amps but not all.
Still I gravitate to IK, Nembrini or what the heck: Guitar Rig 5 (I have Komplete 12 Ultimate). I have always loved Guitar Rig, it has some good sounds in there (in the Petrucci forum there was this guy who made a whole guitar instrumental album with it and we all were marveled about his tone, this was like 8 years ago, wow, long time...).
So, perhaps it's more about who's using it? Haha :P Idk
I once told myself to never buy anything PA, and the moron of me seeing some "bargains" made me buy some, lol.

Guitar rig is  probably the harshest and brightest of them all though. The PA amps are definitely ok but one thing to keep in mind is that they are mono an lack ambience.  Amplitube sounds much more 3D out of the box because of the added reverb.

The PA amps are indeed very sensitive to input gain. The sounds are generally more modern and hi-fi and they work well if that’s what you’re going for. 

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34 minutes ago, StudioNSFW said:

Nothing really compares to playing through a "Real" SVT for the instrument dynamics that I have found - there is a certain natural compression to the tube pre-amp that translates to how it handles different amplitude level of playing soft vs hard (from passive pickups anyway) that I have never felt on any emulation no matter how much they claimed to have modeled the original circuit. I call it "Smoosh" and just chalk it up to "Analog vs. Digital" 

That said, there is also nothing compared to having to move or lift a "Real" SVT either.   And if you ever play in a band with a SVT AND an B3 - I guarantee every gig you will book will be on the second floor with a broken elevator.  (been there, done that, had the hernia surgery) And Ampeg somehow manages to consistently make the heaviest cabinets with the worst casters in the industry. You also could license every possible emulator and still save money on what a re-tube would re-cost.

All that said, the IK sounds pretty fine for what it is. I've used it in a pinch but generally I mic the real thing and mix it with the DI signal old school style. 

Thks for the feedback , have you tried the PA  ?

in real world yep those ampegg are tank to move around lol but theyblast long , we have to give them that .

 

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Honestly I have not -  I do a lot of work outside the box and seldom feel the need to re-amp if I am playing  the bass track as these old amps are completely understood (and my goto is my beloved Bassman 10 through that old Tone Ring cabinet, NOT the SVT).  In the past when I was working much more in audio and had  another player in, most of the time is seemed like  they were booking the studio for access to the amps, especially the B15n. I have used the IK straight into the VS-700 instrument input for some cowpunk stuff recently and ...yeah, good enough that I haven't looked any further. 

Playing out live on the other hand, the SVT is worth the load in/load out struggle...at least it is while I am playing. I curse it roundly during load in and load out. 

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I had this:

bassrig.jpg

But all I really ever used was this...

Line-6-Bass-POD-Pro-1.jpg

Oh well...

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12 minutes ago, craigb said:

But all I really ever used was this...

Line-6-Bass-POD-Pro-1.jpg

Oh well...

In fairness, the Bass Pod was pretty cool. I still bust mine (kidney bean version) out once in a while. The Adam & Eve model was pretty sweet.

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Personnaly (i i decide to go real bass and OTB)  i will go with the darkglass pedal cheap and damn good sounding easy to move ... and for the cab , maybe a markbass  .... as for plugins , well what surpirse me is the praise of those amps when they were UA and suddently native , you get like 2 reviews lol 

Anyway can't wait Amplitube to get a revamp like the rest of the IK line  !!

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Live sound guys LOVE the Bass Pod Pro. i got mine after one of the sound engineers for Gaylord just gushed about it to me.  Pretty cool alternative to a plain jane DI to the PA.  

Also, the Owners manual ("Pilot Handbook") is about the coolest piece of technical documentation I have ever read.

Edited by StudioNSFW
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On 5/6/2020 at 7:37 PM, Joakim said:

Guitar rig is  probably the harshest and brightest of them all though. The PA amps are definitely ok but one thing to keep in mind is that they are mono an lack ambience.  Amplitube sounds much more 3D out of the box because of the added reverb.

The PA amps are indeed very sensitive to input gain. The sounds are generally more modern and hi-fi and they work well if that’s what you’re going for. 

I disagree :P For me it's PA. As I said, when this guy made a whole album with it, guitar oriented, it never sounded harsh. We all wondered where did he got his tone from.

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I remember the first time I saw an SVT (Classic).

I said... "there's no way that thing weighs 80 pounds."

Then... I lifted it.  (Groan) Yep!  It weighs 80 pounds.

 

Any classic electric bass into an SVT Classic is (IMO) the definition of rock-bass tone.

 

Great to have... if you have the physical space.

Not so great to move/transport...

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9 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I remember the first time I saw an SVT (Classic).

I said... "there's no way that thing weighs 80 pounds."

Then... I lifted it.  (Groan) Yep!  It weighs 80 pounds.

 

Any classic electric bass into an SVT Classic is (IMO) the definition of rock-bass tone.

 

Great to have... if you have the physical space.

Not so great to move/transport...

Yes very heavy, lifted that sucker many times along with B3's / Leslies up stairs too..

In the mid 70's out bass player used to blast his Alembic through one. There was a problem when he first got it, would start buzzing then the cab + amp on top would start moving across the floor. Man, that thing was loud, it could handle any club & sounded fantastic!

 

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26 minutes ago, Hidden Symmetry said:

Yes very heavy, lifted that sucker many times along with B3's / Leslies up stairs too..

 

 

See??!! B3 + SVT means all gigs will be upstairs!

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48 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I remember the first time I saw an SVT (Classic).

I said... "there's no way that thing weighs 80 pounds."

Then... I lifted it.  (Groan) Yep!  It weighs 80 pounds.

 

Any classic electric bass into an SVT Classic is (IMO) the definition of rock-bass tone.

 

Great to have... if you have the physical space.

Not so great to move/transport...

Any exeperience if those emulations ? 

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I've looked for VSTs vs the real thing and just picked up the B-15N from PA.  Trying to match the vibe/sound for some existing tracks recorded with a FET 47 on a '66 B-15N. 

Nope. 

At least not yet. I'm sure I need to spend more time with it but none of the presets (all I had time to check) are close to what I need for some "modern vintage memphis vibe."

I've got a mid-70s B-15N parked next to my deck and noting the lack of the "Ultra Hi/Lo" toggles on the emulations. They make a difference.  

I'd given a few of the others a shot but nothing has ever worked as well for me as just going DI or micing a real amp in a  real room. 

And not sure how you "meticulously model" the volume of air being pummeled to shreds with a real SVT. That's physics, not bits. 

However, a few guitar VSTs have gotten really good and useful. Maybe an opportunity for a "bass genius" to make this a priority and do it right instead of an afterthought for a guitar based product?   

If I get something working with these VSTs, I'll post a couple of tracks and let the forum experts weigh in on how well it works in context, which is all that matters. 

.....
Yeah, B3s. 2nd story venues were bad enough, but those load-ins up/down ice encrusted fire escapes well below the freezing point. Man....

No roadies, no B3s.
 

Edited by jackson white
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2 hours ago, Zo said:

Any exeperience if those emulations ? 

I'd go IK on the SVT plugin.

I've got the UAD plugin... but don't use it.  It's ok.

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On 5/8/2020 at 8:34 AM, jackson white said:

 

I've got a mid-70s B-15N parked next to my deck and noting the lack of the "Ultra Hi/Lo" toggles on the emulations. They make a difference.  

 

Yeah - I think every emulator is trying to create the Jamerson/Dunn B15Ns (erm Motown/Stax?) ...so the 64 or 67 models.  Different bias circuit and cabinet between the two, and the 70s model are different again.  Those switches didn't exist until the later models like you have, and don't exist on the re-issues (which are based on the 67).

It's like the fact that no one ever bothered to model the late 70s Bassman 10 with its ultra-linear transformer and master volume.  Despite being a GREAT amp, it just doesn't have any cache. Guitar players generally hate it because it refuses to break up, for bass with a Clean, "piano-like" tone it's everything I want.

Even though Jamerson actually recorded into a DI at Motown, the legend persists. He played a Kustom (with tucknroll) out in almost every picture I have seen of him, but did see his B-15N in a picture of him in a later LA session (probably at Sunset from the decor). 

 

Edited by StudioNSFW

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3 hours ago, StudioNSFW said:

Yeah - I think every emulator is trying to create the Jamerson/Dunn B15Ns (erm Motown/Stax?) ...so the 64 or 67 models.  Different bias circuit and cabinet between the two, and the 70s model are different again.  Those switches didn't exist until the later models like you have, and don't exist on the re-issues (which are based on the 67).

It's like the fact that no one ever bothered to model the late 70s Bassman 10 with its ultra-linear transformer and master volume.  Despite being a GREAT amp, it just doesn't have any cache. Guitar players generally hate it because it refuses to break up, for bass with a Clean, "piano-like" tone it's everything I want.

Even though Jamerson actually recorded into a DI at Motown, the legend persists. He played a Kustom (with tucknroll) out in almost every picture I have seen of him, but did see his B-15N in a picture of him in a later LA session (probably at Sunset from the decor). 

 

You re right about the motown legend , self made di , i think Acme kinda modeled it .P bass , flat ...hard all the intredients are important , but for the motown sound i m better with the svt than the b15 unless you bypass the cab , magic will happen then ...

the v4b i really like also , cleaner in low mid , less boxy , easier on the mix , lacks a liitle lo lows .... any one used it ?

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When you say "Bypass the cab" you mean with an emulator, right? You'll burn out a real tube amp power section if there is no load on the speaker outputs.

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2 hours ago, StudioNSFW said:

When you say "Bypass the cab" you mean with an emulator, right? You'll burn out a real tube amp power section if there is no load on the speaker outputs.

no i was talking about the B15N from PA , just use the amp and bypass cabinet section , iot satrt to go motown in one second !!

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