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Revolutionary indeed!!

I would load TH-U on my surface, then profile all my boogies, with different cabs for all of them, and my Carvin amp, and my Crate. Then bring that to a gig!

 

Yep, that would be worth the full price if $200!

 

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9 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

If you could create your own Profiles (and assuming they're as accurate as the Kemper), it's very much a game-changer.

The ability to very accurately reproduce the sound of any mic'd amp/cab (with a $200 plugin) would be revolutionary.

You can do this in ReValver and Bias Amp. So, there's nothing revolutionary. But the ability to use Kemper profiles is the main reason why I purchased the TH-U upgrade.

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12 hours ago, Soundwise said:

TH3 is alright. It has some usable sounds, but it's not my number one for anything,  be it clean, crunch or lead tones. TH-U is not a game changer either.    Changing preamp/poweramp tubes  feel more like switching between different IRs. Hard to explain, but even though it sounds different and, to a certain degree, reminiscent of the modeled amplifier, it still doesn't feel right.

The same goes for me!

I prefer Magix Vandal over all of them, although I don't like its interface. For me it sounds nearest to real amplifiers.

But I think the sound of each amp sim can be improved if you use hardware effects before your audio interface. If I play lead I often connect my guitars to a real overdrive or distortion stomp even in the case when I use nearly no drive. IMHO it sounds much better, no simulation comes near to that!

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42 minutes ago, marled said:

But I think the sound of each amp sim can be improved if you use hardware effects before your audio interface. If I play lead I often connect my guitars to a real overdrive or distortion stomp even in the case when I use nearly no drive. IMHO it sounds much better, no simulation comes near to that! 

Ditto! I always use a high quality tube preamp before my AI. It has a fixed gain  ratio about 4/1, which always provides superior clean tone, enhanced with vacuum tube harmonics. The impact isn't noticeable unless you A/B the recorded signal, DI vs this preamp.

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5 hours ago, Soundwise said:

You can do this in ReValver and Bias Amp. So, there's nothing revolutionary. But the ability to use Kemper profiles is the main reason why I purchased the TH-U upgrade.

Tone-Matching is not the same thing as Kemper style "Profiling".  

Tone-Matching uses FFT to match the frequency-response of the Amp/Cab/Mic "Rig".

Tone-Matching (Impulse-Responses) can't capture/represent non-linear (distortion) components.

None of the source amp's distortion characteristics are captured/reproduced.

 

You can actually "Tone-Match" with any AmpSim that allows loading IRs.  

The FFT process has to be done separately with your DAW.

  • Use an FFT to match the frequency content
  • Shoot an IR using that resultant FFT
  • Load this IR into your AmpSim

 

Bias Amp and ReValver sound nothing close to the realism of a Kemper.

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6 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Bias Amp and ReValver sound nothing close to the realism of a Kemper.

I have no idea what technology is used in BIAS Amp or ReValver, and never heard or performed a comparison between these amp sims and Kemper, so I'll take your word for it. :)

But I'm not sure that Bias or ReValver use a simple FFT to capture the tone. I had tried to profile some tube gear with ACT Combo and could hardly tell the real thing from the profiled one. 

As for TH-U, it still is to be tested and compared to Kemper. Hopefully, it's in the same league.

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:16 AM, Jim Roseberry said:

Tone-Matching is not the same thing as Kemper style "Profiling".  

Tone-Matching uses FFT to match the frequency-response of the Amp/Cab/Mic "Rig".

Tone-Matching (Impulse-Responses) can't capture/represent non-linear (distortion) components. 

None of the source amp's distortion characteristics are captured/reproduced.

Thank you for pointing out these facts so clearly.  This information often gets obscured in the discussions about convolution/IRs/FFTs (i.e. DSP) used for amp & cabinet  modeling.  I wonder how Kemper and others capture the non-linear characteristics in their profiling. 

Edited by Tom B

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I was using my fcb1010 with the loop features in th-u today.

1. When ending a loop, it automatically begins overdubbing the same loop.

2. Sometimes when i stomp to end the overdubbing, the volume of the loop would jump to 0.

3. I wasn't able to get the undo to undo anything ever. 

4. I was able to map all the controls to the fcb1010 and have tons of fun.

5. There is more than a small chance that the only problem is me.

....

Opposite of Soundwise, i sometimes use only the fx and send out through my reamp box to my real amp. This is tons of fun and let's me play with the stomp boxes and order of stomp boxes easily.

....

Folks earlier in the thread asked about single coil vs humbucker. There is an input setting in th3/thu for single coil vs humbucker. I can't remember how to describe it. It is mentioned in the th3 manual. My only electric is a strat with lace single coil pickups,  so i never use the humbucker setting.

Edited by Gswitz

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From the th3/thu manuals...

In the master controls section

Sensitivity: changes input sensitivity as 
much as it would be on a real amp. LOW is 
best suited for single coils, HIGH usually 
works better with humbuckers.

This doesn't tell you how the amp was modelled, but it might help it sound better. Imho, amp models are cool, but just not that close to the real thing.

I wonder if one of the reasons to not let us model our own amps is it would make obvious to everyone how limited the technology really is.

I tried isolating the mics and found a huge difference between modelled mics and the real thing.

That doesn't mean i don't love thu for convenience and cost effectiveness. I do. And i paid the upgrade price the moment it became available.

Edited by Gswitz

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Follow up

To be clear, soundwise is brilliant and 1000 times the musician i am.

I was only pointing out that you can replace a variety of components with the real thing for a nice improvement.

This doesn't mean that you can't get cool sounds entirely within Thu. I only mean there are lots of ways to enjoy the plugin.

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3 hours ago, Gswitz said:

I was using my fcb1010 with the loop features in th-u today.

1. When ending a loop, it automatically begins overdubbing the same loop.

2. Sometimes when i stomp to end the overdubbing, the volume of the loop would jump to 0.

3. I wasn't able to get the undo to undo anything ever. 

4. I was able to map all the controls to the fcb1010 and have tons of fun.

5. There is more than a small chance that the only problem is me. 

 

I have already contacted the Overloud support because there is no Save layers button in new TH-U looper. The answer was that they are currently working on a new version of looper functionality for TH-U, so it is worth to send them your described issues too.

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The looper is terrible :( Not only the ugliest thing in the world but even much worse in functionality than the one from TH3 which also was bad (no possibility to change channel L<>R when playing layers :(

For some reason Overloud besides of improvements are adding also regressions. TH2 had few things better than TH3, and also TH3  had some things better than TH-U... :( Hard to understand why break things intentionally (?)...

 

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@Piotr if they don't make some improvements to the Looper, I'll have to agree with you.

That said, it looks like they are going to get it dialed in fairly well. While not awesome, it is way better than th3 Looper which was really so bad as to not be useful.

Juan of the odd things to me is that loop start and stop is a global setting only. if you drop three instances of th3 in your project, they will all loop together. You can't start a loop on one track with one amp then play over it with another without looping both.

This assumes your midi input is the same device for both instances.

Edited by Gswitz
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I have since given some thought to how to block one instance of THU from looping while not blocking another.

If you have the same midi input on 2 different midi tracks (one to the first instance of THU and the other to the 2nd instance of THU), you could use a midi filter to block the loop instructions to the second instance of THU.

I haven't tried it yet, but it might work.

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8 hours ago, Gswitz said:

@Piotr if they don't make some improvements to the Looper, I'll have to agree with you.

That said, it looks like they are going to get it dialed in fairly well. While not awesome, it is way better than th3 Looper which was really so bad as to not be useful.

Juan of the odd things to me is that loop start and stop is a global setting only. if you drop three instances of th3 in your project, they will all loop together. You can't start a loop on one track with one amp then play over it with another without looping both.

This assumes your midi input is the same device for both instances.

Gswitz, considering use in standalone situation (where looper is probably most needed) there are significant regression so you could agree with me even now ;)

What lacks in THU looper and was useful from my point of view:

- many record layers in TH3 (against only 2 tracks in THU and next take seems to be in-printed into the previous one - kinda weirdo)

- setting panning during  recording track

- saving layers or whole mix

-  manging solo/mute for layers during play

- autostart

 

Of course TH3 looper still far from having all needed (panning during recording but not playing etc...) but anyway quite a lot of things missing like for newer version of something, huh? ;)

For me THU looper is terrible looking toy without use :(

Just hope it is temporary state because Overloud guys were focusing for the most important things so maybe had no time to do it (of course question remains why not keep old version with few improvements instead starting something from the beginning with so limited functionality). The only improvement in THU is count-in added.

But considering rest of things it doesn't change much in experience.

 

 

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Guyz i didn't read the whole thread , so sorry if it has been asked /answered ...so is it judicious to go from TH3 to THU if you don't care about impulses and your own rig (i'm no guitar player at all so i have nothing to sample lol)

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Pretty much the same here. The swapping valves interested me.

I made some requests about the looper 6 months ago, but there are mixed feelings on it, but at least they have invested in it, so may want to get it right.

One youtube review talked about a tighter stronger bass response in all the models, which may be the tipping point, being I use it for bass a lot.

 

Seeing some of overlouds recent sales, I think I can wait (saving for a motorbike)

 

 

 

 

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FWIW, I don't like the stock Cabs... 

IMO, TH-U starts to sound a whole lot better if you use quality Cab IRs.

What I think is ideal (if you have the Cabs/mics)... is to create your own Cab IRs (your favorite Cab/s, mic'd the way you like).

This helps bend the sound (tone) to being more "you".

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7 hours ago, Zo said:

Guyz i didn't read the whole thread , so sorry if it has been asked /answered ...so is it judicious to go from TH3 to THU if you don't care about impulses and your own rig (i'm no guitar player at all so i have nothing to sample lol)

Best advice is to download the demo and kick the tires for yourself. Regardless of input here, this will come down to you. The "What's New" at the bottom of the product page is a good place to start. Personally, I was a bit underwhelmed by TH-U, so will hold off on it.

It seems the "Rig-To-Model" technology is not something they plan to release, which is unfortunate since a lot of folks have amps they cannot continuously (or ever for some) run at wide open throttle and/or want to capture their studio space.

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14 hours ago, Zo said:

Guyz i didn't read the whole thread , so sorry if it has been asked /answered ...so is it judicious to go from TH3 to THU if you don't care about impulses and your own rig (i'm no guitar player at all so i have nothing to sample lol)

If you have full TH3 and don't need to pay VAT you can have THU for 49$ 49 EUR (sorry my bad - bought on TimeSpace, just checked my orders, but cannot see this offer anymore there) .

Despite of some new flaws (like making looper from poor to terrible) it is adding some valuable things like more amps and stomps. More possibilities to change character as valve select. Also RIG player which is promising some Kemper profile compatibility in future.

Here are some samples from Slate (smaller a little limited of THU will be added to Everything bundle soon) :


www.stevenslatemedia.com/thu/RockA.wav
www.stevenslatemedia.com/thu/RockB.wav


www.stevenslatemedia.com/thu/BluesA.wav

www.stevenslatemedia.com/thu/BluesB.wav
 

They are Kemper vs THU comparison.

And after THU install TH3 is still working. So from my point of view I don't regret I have upgraded.  Despite as EU citizien I was forced to pay additionaly VAT so my price was 60$ 60 EUR (sorry my bad - bought on TimeSpace, just checked my orders)

 

 

Edited by Piotr
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