ptheisen

Yes, the A series will work in a limited fashion if it is setup correctly using the MCU emulation. The transport controls will work as expected and when in MIDI mode the large knob will allow navigation between tracks, once you get used to how it is implemented. Of course, it will also work as intended within the Komplete Kontrol shell VST. There are other threads on this forum that have more details if you search for them.

Another thing that is easily overlooked is that keyboard/controller hardware combos usually have two virtual midi devices for input to the DAW and both must be enabled. For the Nektar LX+ series, when viewing the CbB midi devices dialog, the one named MIDIIN2 (Impact LX25+) is the control surface midi device and the one named Impact LX25+ is the keyboard midi device. You may not have both enabled. Also check  in the control surfaces dialog,  the one named MIDIIN2 (Impact LX25+) is the one to use for the control surface input. (Yes, the input and output names will not be the same device!)

I have an LX49+ and it works perfectly, I'm very happy with it.

A simple thing to check is in Preferences > MIDI > Control Surfaces. Make sure both the in and out ports are correctly assigned to the Project Mix. The symptoms you described may indicate that the in port is not assigned to the Project Mix. These settings seem to be somewhat subject to getting jumbled, and are the first things I check when a control surface is acting strange.

If the Nektar LX+ controllers otherwise meet your requirements, you should not be put off by the threads where some people could not get them to work as they had hoped. I don't know what they did wrong, but I just got an LX49+, and had no trouble quickly connecting it with CbB. Their website clearly documents what it will do with each of the DAWs it supports, and it does everything they say it will with no user mapping/programming required. It has separate dedicated plug-ins for each DAW, including Sonar/CbB. You have to register with Nektar to download the plug-ins and installation instructions. I just followed those  instructions and it works flawlessly. I also set it up with the free version of Studio One 5, and it works as advertised there too.

The Nektar LX+ keyboards also allow for quite a bit of additional user programming for more specific control of VST instruments for example, if you are so inclined. I haven't gone down that path yet, and may not need to.

Everyone's needs are different, but yours may be similar to mine. I did a lot of research to find the best controller for me, especially considering that CbB  is my DAW of choice, and have not been disappointed in any way.  I think these are the only controllers anywhere near the price that do have a dedicated plug-in for Sonar/CbB. If you use one of the "major" DAWs, there are more choices.

If you want the nine faders, you'll have to go for 49 keys. The 25 key version only has room for one fader.

Actually, you most likely will want to also set up the M32 using the Mackie MCU device.

I have one of those, and the transport controls are the part of it that will work in CbB if it is set up as an MCU. The "big knob" will also work for selecting the active track and scrolling the timeline.

But other than those things, it won't control the DAW itself, because NI hasn't collaborated with Cakewalk as they have with some other DAWs for deeper DAW integration. The M32 does a very nice job of controlling the Komplete Kontrol shell plug-in if you use it. That is perhaps the main control purpose of the NI keyboards, at least when used with CbB.

Make sure that neither the M32 firmware nor the version of the Komplete Kontrol software is too old. The ability to use the MCU protocol was added somewhat recently, mid 2019 if I recall correctly.

If each is set up correctly, there shouldn't be conflicts between them. I have three different controllers with transport controls. I can use the transport controls on whichever one I choose at any given moment. I can even press play on one and stop on another and it all works. Part of the work the DAW and controller integration has  to do is coordinate the controllers. When play is pressed on one controller and sent to the DAW, the other controllers are informed (using whatever method is necessary for those controllers) that play has been engaged.

The one thing to monitor in CbB is that the controller In Ports and Out Ports sometimes get jumbled up, especially if not all the controllers are connected (and turned on if necessary) each time CbB is opened. If one or more controllers are not working as they should, the first thing to check is Preferences > Control Surfaces > In Port and Out Port.

I saw on another thread that you are also considering a Roland RD-88 and other higher end keyboards for your midi controller. The Nektar LX+ series is definitely not in the same league as something like that as far as the keyboard is concerned. Even though Nektar say that the 88 key version is semi-weighted, the whole thing weighs only 18#, compared to the RD-88's 30#. There's just no way to get even a half-decent piano action in something that weighs much under 30#, so if that is a priority, the LX+ is probably not what you're looking for. Also, the layer/split capability of the LX+88 is simpler than the RD-88. They are different in so many ways, they can't really be compared. The DAW integration of the LX+, on the other hand, is good, while the RD-88 has none that I can see. 😏

On 12/24/2020 at 2:54 PM, paulo said:

I'd be happy just to have a decent quality midi controller keyboard that fully worked with CW. 

I just received a Nektar LX+49 for Christmas. The LX+ series has a dedicated Cakewalk plug-in, which is why I chose that series instead of the more expensive T or P series. It works as advertised when set up per the instructions, I am very happy with it so far. I don't know if the overall specifications of the LX+ series meet your needs, but you might want to check them out.

I don't want to derail this thread, just want to followup on a couple of things I mentioned in my last response. I've had a chance to play a bit with the Nektar LX+49 that I received for Christmas. When set up according to the directions, it works as advertised with CbB, so I am very happy with it. The soft-takover works fine in CbB. It also works fine in Studio One 5, contrary to what I had read a while ago, but maybe this is a somewhat recent change for Studio One.

Back to the KK keyboards, they are close to what you are looking for if you're using one of the supported DAWs. Or maybe if Azlow3 could figure out how to access the Track mode with his AZController??? There was a user on your site that said they had developed a preset for the mk2 keyboards that did most of the mixer functions, and he provided the file for download, but when I tried it, it appeared almost "empty" to me, none of the controls were mapped to anything, and not surprisingly, it did nothing.

Some simple controllers with non-motorized faders and/or traditional knobs instead of endless encoders still have two way communication with the DAW, so that they know what the DAW's current parameter value is, even if they don't display it. This enables them to write logic that does what some call a "soft takeover". As the knob/fader is being physically moved, the controller doesn't begin sending it's value to the DAW until that value equals the DAW's current value. It's not quite as good as motorized faders or endless encoders are, but it's a lot better than the alternative "parameter jumping".

I don't know if the Korg controllers have some version of this or not. I know the Nektar LX+ controllers do, and they also have a "driver" specifically for Cakewalk (well, Sonar at the time it was developed). I'm hoping they will work well with CbB, especially because Santa  is bringing me one for Christmas, so I should find out soon.

Since I was just describing this soft takeover functionality, it is worth noting for users of Studio One that, based only on comments by others on this forum,  Presonus has somehow disabled it in their DAW for non-Presonus controllers that have non-motorized faders and/or traditional knobs. I guess that is one way to gain an edge on their lower end hardware competitors.

4 hours ago, S K said:

Great info thanks. 

If the knob wheel thing works and the transport stuff works all I need to know is if the knobs work in the mixers

I’m  thinking if a KK can adjust mixer settings as well as the transport controls I can get rid of Mackie control unit!

If by knobs you mean the eight encoders, they do not do anything out of the box as far as DAW control is concerned in CbB. I'll try to explain my understanding of why this is so.

The NI hardware is configured as two separate software midi devices. There's nothing wrong about this, it is common when a piece of hardware is meant to be both a control surface and an "instrument". But this means that a particular midi message has two possible software midi devices to go to, and the overall brain of the hardware decides where each message goes in a particular circumstance.

In the NI models, the messages from the white and black keys, as well as the pitch bend and modulation wheels/strips, are always sent to the software midi device I'll call "instrument".  The messages from the Stop, Play and Record buttons as well as the big knob are always sent to the software midi device I'll call "control surface". The messages from the eight encoders can go to either software device, as determined by the mode the hardware is currently in.

What are the modes? There's plug-in mode, which activates when it senses that the current track has an instance of Komplete Kontrol on it. In that mode, the encoder messages go to the control surface device, and more specifically to the Komplete Kontrol plug-in itself. The encoders are automatically mapped to Komplete Kontrol parameters for the current instance, and this is perhaps the best thing about having an NI keyboard.

There is midi mode, which can be chosen by the user at any time, but in this mode, the encoder messages go to the instrument device. I won't go into details of how to do it, but it is possible for the user to program many presets into the NI hardware, in combination with Cakewalk midi learn, which can then be used to control lots of DAW parameters. The problem with this is that each preset is based on a static midi channel, not a dynamically selected track.  For example, you could set up a preset to use encoder one sending CC22 on midi channel 1, in combination with a midi learn on the slider for a particular CbB track, and this would enable encoder one to control the volume on that track. But even if you did a bunch of this, due to the limitations, it is still nowhere near having tracks one through eight (regardless of how tracks have been added, subtracted or moved over time)  controlled respectively by encoders one through eight, with the ability to shift banks of eight tracks. This amount of sophistication is impossible in CbB, as far as I know, even with tons of work.

Then there is track mode, which can only be chosen when using one of the DAWs that NI has specifically collaborated with: Ableton, Garage Band/Logic, Cubase/Nuendo and most recently, Studio One.  In this mode the encoder messages are sent to the control surface device and some of the other buttons are also activated. Whatever dynamic mapping that is necessary magically takes place, and all of this enables volume, pan, mute, solo and a number of other DAW functions to be triggered from the NI hardware very much as you would expect from a typical control surface such as a Mackie. So the NI keyboards could be a great choice if using one of those DAWs. If not using one of those, and DAW control is of primary importance to you, it is not as good a choice.

If you do a little more searching on this forum, you will find threads where I and others have detailed the "out of the box" level of integration between CbB and KK mk2 or A series keyboards.

To summarize, if you hook them up correctly and use the Mackie MCU surface interface provided by Cakewalk with the handshake disabled, the stop, play and record buttons will work as expected. The "big knob" will let you scroll the time line and change the selected track.\

The encoders and other buttons do work as expected "out of the box" within a Komplete Kontrol instance on a track, so if you're big into that environment, it is still pretty cool.

Anything beyond that, as far as parameters of the DAW itself are concerned, requires the user to program what they want, and I think it is very complicated to do so due to the structure that NI imposed on the way these boards work.

Deeper DAW control seems to be reserved for the DAWs that NI has specifically chosen to work with. Those DAWs somehow awaken a Track mode inside the keyboard that enables much deeper Daw integration. Without access to that Track mode, DAW control is limited to what is available in what they call MIDI mode.

Based on info from another thread on this forum, I found a Cubase articulation map for Strummed Acoustic 2 at arpegiah.com. These can be imported into CbB, which would probably be a good start. I haven't actually tried it yet, so I can't give any further insight.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm worried that if they do the same as last year, the crossgrade won't be discounted at all. If they discount a new license 50%, that would be $200, which is also pretty good, but if the discount on the new license is less than 50%, I could wind up paying more. Decisions, decisions, a bird in the hand and all that...

I'm interested in the crossgrade, it is $299.95 in the Presonus store.. In your professional opinions, do you think Presonus will offer the crossgrade lower than $195.72 during Black Friday promotions? I checked what they did last year for Black Friday, a lot of things were at 50%, but the crossgrade was not discounted at all. I'm just curious what you think, I won't hold anyone responsible. 😊

At first I thought I agreed with Jim about the keyboard shortcut. But that is assuming hitting Alt+8 is intentional.

If a new user using the Basic workspace accidently hits Alt+8, has no idea what they hit or why that perplexing window just popped up, maybe it would be better if the keyboard shortcut is also deactivated. I guess there's no way to make everybody happy.

6 minutes ago, abacab said:

Long time coming, though!

Well, you were the one who asked Noel about the possibility of reconnecting with Don. 🙂

I was just trying to say that maybe CbB should think twice before becoming dependent on a one-man shop for it's notation under the current circumstances. Now, if BandLab buys Overture and takes over development, that could be good!

@abacabYou're right, Don was on the Problems and Bugs sub-forum yesterday. I don't normally go there. My comment about no activity other than deletions since July 05 was in regard to the General Discussion sub-forum.

Back to the topic of notation in CbB, my opinion is that it does not need advanced scoring capabilities, those who need that are better served in a non-DAW application. CbB just needs a few basic additions and fixes to any glaring bugs.

@abacab I'm actually trying to be very objective. I bought Overture in late 2017 and use it when I have scoring needs, so I definitely want it to succeed. I've visited the Overture forum almost every day since then and seen almost every interchange between Don and the users,  so my opinions are not based on  hearsay or generic Internet research. The advanced users that find the last few versions unusable are some of the people that do Don's beta testing, and aside from the bugs, they still think Overture's workflow is the best of any notation program, so they also want it to succeed. I intentionally didn't put negative details in my response to try to prove that Overture is bad or anything like that because that's not my intent at all. I'd tell you to go to the Overture forum if you want to see what people are complaining about for yourself, except that posts which reflect negatively on Overture are routinely deleted from the forum, it happened again a week or two ago. The deletion of negative posts is the only sign that someone from Overture has been on the forum since July 05, despite pleas from loyal users for Don to just send a note that he is still alive. This is a fact I verified just minutes before sending this response.

A few years ago when the possible Overture/Gibson partnership was mentioned, I also hoped that it would somehow happen. At the time of Sonar's demise, Don was generous enough to offer us Overture for only $50, and I took advantage of that. Since then, things may have changed.  At present, the latest several versions of Overture have been more or less unusable by advanced users due to bugs, sometimes even in core functionality that was working acceptably before. This has left people unhappy, and to make things worse, Don has been basically unresponsive on his own forum for months, which is very unusual. I suppose it's possible the reason for this is that he is so busy negotiating some kind of deal with BandLab that he doesn't have time to respond to his Overture customers. If that is the case, maybe it will turn out to be a good thing for CbB. If that is not the case, then an Overture/CbB partnership might not be a great idea.

John, usually when there are symptoms like you describe, it is an issue between Cakewalk and your audio interface. Sometimes a Windows update or other things can screw up that relationship. if you haven't already, go into Cakewalk Preferences and try switching the driver mode under playback and recording settings to something other than what it is now and apply (save) that. For example, if it is currently set to ASIO, change it to WDM/KS. After applying, switch the driver mode back to what it is now and apply again. This will force a refresh of the communication between Cakewalk and the audio interface. You may also have to restore some of the settings under Devices and Driver Settings, I don't recall if all of that is stored per driver mode. If you're lucky, this will help.

I hope you don't give up on Cakewalk too!

I've known about the dots for a long time. Now that more people may be looking at them, I should point out that (on my system, at least) there is a minor bug related to them. Most VST3 versions of plugins that do operate with 64 bit data will incorrectly show the 32 bit dot patterns, while their VST2 versions correctly show the 64 bit dot patterns. Izotope Ozone is an example. I asked Izotope about it, they said it must be a Cakewalk (Sonar, back then) issue.  It doesn't hurt anything as far as I know, so I haven't bothered to inquire further.

If you can't find an INS file specifically for the Forte, you might try going to the link below to get an INS file for the earlier Kurzweil model PC3. Modification of the file, perhaps significant, may be required to get it to work for the Forte, but there should also be a fair amount of commonality between the two models so you won't be starting from scratch.

https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/kurzweil-pc3-v2-03b-cakewalk-ins-file.24987/

CbB will recognize the M32 as a control surface using the Mackie Control device with the input/output named Komplete Kontrol M DAW. (The input/output named KOMPLETE KONTROL M32 MIDI is for the keyboard aspect of the M32, not the transport controls.) The setting for Disable Handshake in this Mackie Control instance needs to be checked. This can be accessed from the Utilities menu in CbB.

The below I have copied and edited from another thread that was for the NI A61, which uses the same software and has the same capabilities:

Make sure the M32 is in MIDI mode. If the PLUG-IN/MIDI button in the upper right is lit at all, you are not in MIDI mode. The PLAY, REC and STOP buttons will also be unlit. To go into MIDI mode, press shift and the PLUGIN/MIDI button. When you release both buttons, the light should go out in the PLUGIN/MIDI button, and turn on in the PLAY, REC and STOP buttons on the left. The M32 should now have the following functionality:

PLAY, REC and STOP will work as expected.

The 4-D encoder knob on the right will scroll the timeline when turned clockwise or counter-clockwise, scroll tracks when nudged up or down and scroll track parameters when nudged left and right. This is assuming that, between the track view and the console view, the track view was the last one "touched". This corresponds with the top to bottom arrangement of tracks in the track view.  If the console view was the last of those two views to be touched, the up/down/left/right behavior is reversed to correspond with the left to right arrangement of tracks in the console view, as long as the console view is visible.  If the console view was last touched, but is not visible (it is in the multidock and a different view is selected there), left/right/up/down does nothing!

Hope this helps!

Just a point of clarification, the subject of the thread is the XR series, which is a step down from the current HRmk2 series, so while "they don't make them like they used to" is certainly open for discussion, it's not a fair comparison between the current XR series and the original HR series.

For what it's worth, a few months ago I purchased the 5" model of the Mackie MR series, which is another step down from the XR series, but for the price, I'm extremely happy with them. Especially compared to the direct competition from other brands (JBL 305P mkII, Yamaha HS5, etc.) In my opinion, the Mackie MR is the most accurate/natural sounding of the bunch, and that is what is important to me. YMMV.