Mark Morgon-Shaw

17 hours ago, Alan Tubbs said:

And the new Sonar, stripped down or for owners of previous or paid versions maybe  $100.  Maybe $200 for new users if it includes some starter native effects.  The pc eq is great, the 1176 is usable and the ssl buss is great and as good as you are going to find natively.

what do you think will work?

Having built up a collection of preffered 3rd party plugins over many years I don't ideally want anything bundled with it as I would never use it, so the option to have it bare bones as possible would be prefereable . Same goes with the bundled instruments which are merely adequate at best, anyone with a basic version of Kontakt will have a much higher quality selection to choose from.   

11 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

A reasonable price is what a given user is prepared to pay.

The problem is that varies greatly from individual to individual. 

I make music income every quarter , just yesterday was notified I earned almost $1k from one of my tracks on a Youtube video which will likely cover whatever the are going to charge for the next 2 - 5yrs .....so whatever they are asking will be well worth it for me perosnally as I've used it for 25yrs, I'm fast and has pretty much everything I need, 

There are other folks just wanna dabble and make a few songs a year, they are not earning anything from what is essentially a professional grade tool. Those folks likely wouldn't be willing to pay as much as I would as there is no ROI.   Maybe this is why they are making Cakewalk Next s well so you have a consumer level package and a Pro level package and pay appropriately based on your needs.

They told us a lot of the cost of "old" Sonar was due to the bundled 3rd party instruments and plugins which is why they were not included with CBB

I for one use very little of the bundled plugins , I don't really use the Pro Channel and none of the instruments really cut it for tracks I make for my publishers. 

I would prefer to be able to pay for a bare bones version with no added "filler" that I will never use and let those that do want it all bundled in pay the extra if they wish.  

2 minutes ago, Fleer said:

My 2012 MacBook Pro still running fine

You're lucky, we have had 2 dead Imacs and a dead MBP...belong to my wife & kids not me. I took them apart and they all overheated and fried the Logic board..which Apple won't sell you.  Just poor thermal design to make them look sleek. Give me an ATX case any day.

I did just buy my wife an M2 Mac Mini to replace the 2014 model she is still running, to be fair that's done well but I was disgusted at the price of the extra storage...£200 to go from a virtually laughable 256gb to a still small 512gb SSD that costs about £40. The fact they are non-user upgradeable is insane to me. 

But..she wont' use a PC so what can I do. Thankfully the kids have grown up gamers and all wanted PC's which we built together.   

7 hours ago, Misha said:

License that doesn't expire, unlike subscription only models (possibly excluding future Sonar). 

It effectively expires as it's eventually rendered obsolete by O/s & hardware incpompatibility. I mean techinically I still have a licence for Pro Audio 9 but  I can't run it with any of the gear I own now. 

7 hours ago, Misha said:

Do you also laugh at people who prefer to own favorite books instead of  going to libraries?

 No. Only people that make bad analogies 

Awwwww man.  I will no longer be able to laugh at my fellow TV composers they tell me how much they spent on their DAWs whilst mine is free. 

Mind you most of them have crazily overpriced Apple Macs so I can still laugh at that.

5yrs of CBB has been a good run. It was always going to end, I'm just happy that we have the return of Sonar - I hope the industry starts taking it seriously again as a major platform as we've seen our favourite DAW somewhat shunned, no longer mentioned by other manufacturers ( I have an Oxygen Pro keyboard here with a preset for seemingly every DAW under the sun except CBB ) and no longer appearing in Sound On Sound  alongside the other DAW columns etc.

Whislt I'm not interested in a streamlined DAW that looks to be what Next is  I'm happy to pay for a new Sonar by subscription at the right price, it makes me laugh when people say they want to "own" it because you never do  - it's just licence.

 Very much look forward to Cakewalk Sonar and if @Noel Borthwick is looking for beta testers for it then sign me up.   

3 hours ago, sjoens said:

I could be wrong but I thought the Arranger had a way to create different "arrangements" that can do this already.

Yeah you can effectively achieve the same by auditioning a new arrangement that leaves out the uwanted sections

I guess if you could make Cakwalk skip over an arranger section in the main track view it could be a quicker way to try stuff out than creating a new arrangement.  

There isn't a midi cc paramter for slide. You normally have to use pitch bend.

5 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

wouldn't busses be stems?  

They can be but Folders are more flexible.

Imagine sending all your drum parts to a drum buss. You have some drum buss compression happenig that sounds great on the kick , toms and snare but it's ruining your cymbal sound and making them sound washed out. What do you do ? You take the cymbals out of the Drum Buss and maybe route them to the Master Buss instead.

If you use busses as stems now, your drum buss is missing the cymbals. If you use folders as well you can keep all elements of the drum track together , route them wherever you need but also Export by Folders when you need stems,    

Yes if you could jump between nodes with TAB and CTRL TAB and nudge them with the same NUM PAD keys as you can with midi note that would be helpful.

I might also argue that most people can't hear a difference of 0.2db in a full mix so you may have overdone the automation. If you use a hardware controller instead of a mouse and shut your eyes as you ride the levels you'll likely make much bigger fader moves as the eyes tend to trick the ears. 

10 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Then pat yourself in the back. You're a special little piece of individual which never makes mistakes like everyone else. I envy you.

Thank you. 

8 hours ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

@Mark Morgon-Shaw I guess I'm trying to see the bigger picture here too. I'd love Cake to be around for another 25 years more, but that won't happen unless it keeps up with the times. If something can be done faster in another DAW, or RTFM is required because things are too different., not a familiar, or unintuitive, we'll lose users, and that would be a shame.  

Cakewalk should be right up there with the most popular PC DAWs , I mean come on. It used to be hugely popular and ...and it's FREE FFS. But they lost a lot of ground because of major ommisions like not having a dedicated sampler. The kids that make music now are using audio from Splice etc. and chopping it up.  Hip Hop is the biggest music genre on the planet. If you don't cater for those producers they will go elsewhere even if it's free.  So I don't the think the Export function working one way or another will make much if any difference to how many users Cakewalk can gain as it will be bigger more headline grabbing benefits that attract them.         

1 hour ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

I've been using Cake for nearly 25 years,

I think I may have a year or two on you but I would have thought by now you would have learned. Don't expect the default system behaviour to be changed just because you have poor recall.  

1 hour ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

ever after starting this thread I still made the mistake 3 more times this week! 

Well they say mistakes are for learning from not repeating

1 hour ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

But not only do I use other DAWs, I also use related apps like video editing software. If Adobe Premiere Pro had this design issue, there'd be riots! Imagine running a 20 hour rendering project to find out it had only exported the subtitle track because that was where your last mouse click was! 

Yes I have to use other software too , I use Wavelab and RX but it doesn't make me forget how Cakewalk works. Cakewalk preceded Adobe Premiere by about a decade....so who's way is right ? 

2 hours ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

While some of us have remembered the necessary song and dance routine to get it to do what we want,

  Well I imagine it's most of us or we'd never get anything finished 

2 hours ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

those small inconveniences still represent time delays, cognitive burdens, and overall friction in the creative process.  You may be relieved if you weren't paying those microscopic mental taxes every step along the way. 

I probably use Cakewalk more than the average user but I've never felt delayed or cognitively burdened or I'd probably use something else. 

7 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

This is for people who can't always do that.

Well it seems like a fairly simple midi buffer , if it doesn't affect those who wouldn't use it and the other DAWs all have it then it seems a sensble addition. 

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

We dislike an existing feature. We agree on how we would like that feature to work instead. The devs are not going to change the existing feature to suit how we want it to work, because there is a (silent) majority who are fine with how the existing feature works. This is assumed since nobody but 5 of us in this topic are speaking up about it. The best thing to do is just add a new feature that functions as we would like it to.

Exactly. Adding things is fine - Removing long established workflows - not fine

I've had a couple of features added that I requested too, the lock button on the arpeggiator and I went to some lengths to convince them to add Folders to the Export Module Options which is a real boon for bouncing your stems all in one go.

None of these affected any existing workflows and can happily be ignored by those who have no need for them.

16 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

The sad part of all that is not the wonky functionality itself IMO, but seeing people defending said design flaw

One user's design flaw is another's established workflow. 

Personally I don't see it as design flaw , I see it as a RTFM situation. Sometimes when I buy a new car from a different manufacturer the reverse gear is in a different place. It might be push down and top left to find it...instead of pull up and bottom left on the previous car. Does this mean I should petition the manufacturer to change it because other cars I've driven do it differently ? Or should I just....you know..learn how to drive it the way it's been designed ?  

16 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

 and engaging into semantics arguments as if the whole issue with the thing was a matter of whoever is complaining about it not understanding the meaning of words.

You misunderstood. I am talking about  logical ( not lexical ) semantics  " concerned with matters such as sense and reference and presupposition and implication "

16 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Despite knowing about these quirks, I still run into these problems when I export because no other DAW does it that way. 

Well that is a shame , I export approx 1,000 files a year from Cakewalk and I can't recall the last time it didn't export what I thought it should. I don't use any other DAWs so I don't get confused between them working differently to each other. Maybe that's the key. 

54 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

they're workarounds for a feature which currently reinvents the square wheel.

Technically it hasn't reinvented anything as it's always worked the same way. 

2 hours ago, Chris Boshuizen said:

I tried my best today, but I could NOT find a way to export a whole song without selecting Ctrl-A before opening the dialog. None of the options presented seemed to override the prior, arbitrary, track selections. 

Make an Arranger Section that lasts the entire song length and you can click that instead of Ctrl-A

Looks like you had a lot of fun

I think it's semantics.

Export Entire Mix  exports the entire mix based on your selection plus all downstream FX..and this is what I take it to mean. 

It doesn't mean export everything in the Project. Which is what I think you are asking for. Maybe that should be an option,

But for many of us I think the default behaviour which as you say has been in place for years if not decades works perfectly well, and make it much easier for bouncing deliverables for clients when you may need to export half a dozen or more variants of the same track as you can just select what's needed for each iteration and quickly run it off. 

This is one we did for a Sync Library Album , the brief was for empowering female songs that could be used for sports programming especially the upcomign Women's World Cup. 

https://on.soundcloud.com/BxggR

On 5/3/2023 at 5:27 AM, rwksict said:

Hopefully, this bit of info will help BandLab figure out a real solution, and will help other CW users not pull out their hair in the interim.

My workaround these days is the use the Arranger Track to mark the start and end of my exports

22 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Why are we responding to a thread from 2019?

Because it's been happening for a couple of decades

I'v e always argued that certain settings that are currently per project should be global. 

It's crazy really....Take snap as an example. Once you have decided how you prefer it to work and how strong - who wants it to change for the next project ? 

Same with the editing options...I just want them the same ..all the time, 

Currently I have to make a templat then save that , then each new project start with that template. It's maddening. 

8 hours ago, Kerryman said:

In the piano roll view, I'm trying to select the notes of a simple chord (e.g. root, 3rd & 5th) and move them in the PRV to form the same shape, but starting on a different root (e.g. G to C). For the life of me, I can't get the selected notes to move (or copy), despite trying various keyboard shortcut combinations. I have a feeling I'll kick myself when I hear the simple answer.

There's nuerous ways depending on what you're trying to achieve..

Highlight ( hold right mouse & lasso ) then place the pointer over one of the highlighted notes until it turns into a cross with little arrows on and left click-drag will move it around the PRV - holding shift at the same time will constrain it either vertically or horizonatally depending which direction you move first which is handy

Highlight then Ctrl - left click-  drag will make a copy of the notes that you can drag elsewhere

Highlight then using the up / down arrow keys on the number pad ( 8 & 2 ) will move the selected notes up & down a semitone at a time

Highlight + Ctrl D will make a duplicate of the selected notes