Keni

6 hours ago, David Baay said:

Measure actual round-trip latency using the free CEntrance Latency Tester with an output patched directly to an input on your interface, and set Manual Offset as the Measured RTL - Reported RTL.

https://centrance.com/driverfolder/CE_LTU_37.zip

Thanks David...

I used to have such a plugin but that was long ago. I'll try this one now. Off on the link...

2 hours ago, Vyacheslav said:

No.

I once had an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, I had to work on 512-1024, and even then with difficulty. With the purchase of RME Fireface UCX, the same projects run at 128-256.

All projects - 44.1kHz, 32 bit float. I work with Vienna Ensemble Pro on two computers, with up to 5-6 instances in each project.

 I didn’t think so (Windows update)

You’re hauling quite a load!

Interesting settings. Do you have a particular reason for that? (32 bit float) I mean, I understand the increased depth and articulation expected with larger word size at equivalent speeds, but isn’t everything a tradeoff?

I currently do my recording work at 24/48 to have a movie film base rate as my standard. I have played with up to 64/48 but the small perceivable quality (for me) was far outweighed by system demands.

In this situation above (mine) Amp5 crashes CbB freezing at 512 here.

Freezes fine at 128/256 which is where I ordinarily operate. So I’m good. I don’t know how it performs at longer latencies as operating that heavy happens only in certain situations for me and I doubt will get into the picture. Simple enough to remember (for now?) to verify/reset latency when freezing Amp5! 🤞

BTW... on investigation I found a claim to the Audiobox 1818VSL latency of 6?

34 minutes ago, Sunshine Dreaming said:

Until now all worked more or less smoothless in regard to project loadings. But just now when I loaded a second project in an already open CWP project, the entire system was not responsive for a short while and even a "Server is busy" message popped up. And it took lot more time than usual. However, at least it did not crash and I was able to continue to use it. (For now.)

In the past (2023.09 (062) and earlier) I often loaded more than one (even bigger) project at the same time; And since a lot of their parts are frozen, they were working without any long waiting issue.

I cannot uninstall/reinstall anything until Saturday due to a deadline. So I hope this waiting issue goes away or is somehow system-related.

Sorry to hear you’re having some trouble too.

...but my problem is with opening the program, not loading a project.

There is no roll back. This is it. Very shortly, all earlier versions will stop working.

24 minutes ago, David Baay said:

I recently discovered Julian Krause's Youtube channel. He does exhaustive analyses of audio interfaces and gives all the performance specs you can never get from the manufacturer. Below is his review of the AudioFuse 16 Rig. There's a chart at 22:13 that shows RTL of 8.1ms (389 samples) at 48kHz with  64-sample buffer - okay, but not great. The MOTU Ultrlite MK5 I was looking at recently did 6.9ms in his testing. But I'll be sticking with my trusty old PCIe-based MOTU that does 4.5ms (217 samples).  USB is always slower; I'm not sure whether the generation of the USB bus matters that much.

 

Ah... many thanks here for many things.

I wonder how slow/long my 1818vsl is in comparison?

The USB generation makes big jump differences. I wish I could address this but at this point in my life I am now working with a Mac Pro "trashcan" so though it’s a decent machine unto itself, it’s connectivity is severely limited. No add in card capability. No pcie connectivity.

so I’m limited to TB2 USB3.(0/1 specs vary).

The TB2 is ever so slightly faster than that generation of USB3

...but I digress. My apology for getting off topic... again.

8 hours ago, David Baay said:

You can force CbB to use the smaller "chunk" size for offline rendering by setting a non-zero value for BounceBufSizeMsec in Configuration File. Most plugins actually do better with higer values, but you could set 3msec (132 samples at 44,1kHz). When BounceBufSizeMsec=0, the default, CbB uses the ASIO buffer size for offline rendering.

I've been running BounceBufSizeMsec=20  (960 samples at 48kHz) for years without a problem. I originally raised it because Rapture had issues at low buffer sizes.

FWIW, I played around with freezing Amptitube and didn't see a problem at any buffer size.

Thanks David...

I'll look at that too. I’m a bit reluctant to do a program wide change for this one plugin issue. First I will live with the forewarning and work arounds if/when I again use Amp5 instead of Amp4. I really miss Amp3. The only plugin (of consequence to me) lost on this machine moving from my older win8.1 DAW to this win10 DAW.

Addendum?

I just booted up, opened CbB (which opened at normal speed), loaded the song, unfroze all instruments/tracks, then carefully (?) froze one at a time leaving the Amp5 track for last. Shaky finger clicked to freeze the Amp5 track and it froze as expected...

So regardless of if anyone else is seeing this on their' systems, here it's becoming more certain that there's something going on between Amp5 and CbB where it doesn't like freezing at 512. I didn't try higher latency, but going back to 128 solves it every time.

Which isn't really too bad for me here as 512 is far too long for live performance so I'm rarely ever out there except when special circumstances arise. I'm almost always at 128. My system will run faster (64) but even with Xeon 12core with hyper-threading, and 128G RAM, so many of the recent generation of plugins have become far too demanding for more than carefully selected and setup uses. It seems my only other recourse is to sell my sould for an interface that has better latency performance than this old Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL I've been so (mostly) pleased with.

Is there a listing anywhere that compares relative latency of the various interfaces on the market. It seems that none specify any realistic info about such in their specs... or at least I've not spotted such. Interesting piece my heart is drifting towards (not that I can in any way afford it) is the new Arturia AudioFuse 16. But again no mention of latency specs. If it's a matter of USB bus speed, I'm stuck on a Mac trashcan with usb3.0/1 (I'm still uncertain seeing both quoted in machine specs and not finding such locally).

Sorry for the rant... It's one of those days for me...

2 hours ago, Vyacheslav said:

I can’t repeat this, Cake doesn’t crash and the project opens just as quickly.

I wonder what's going on here. I didn’t have any of these problems before this final update 1.

These are all things I do constantly.

Was there a windows 10 update this past week?

3 hours ago, Lynn Wilson said:

Keni, I just happen to be working on a song with A5.  I froze the track and unfroze it with no problems.  Your problem may be system specific?

Thanks Lynn.

I don’t know if you've read my other responses about this, but I verified that A5 is crashing here when I attempt to freeze at a latency of 512. When I change back to my usual 128, the crashing stops..

I went back to 512 to verify and sure enough, crash!

back to 128 and it froze as expected.

28 minutes ago, sjoens said:

I've found letting CbB scan for plugs when opening doesn't always refresh them properly. Only after manually running a scan do some behave right or even show up.

Thanks...

Interesting that both you and gustabo immediately thought about the scanning...

As I mentioned in my reply to him, I hate running the scanner and don't allow it to run on startup.

This plugin had been freezing fine here until this so the scan should still be what it was.

I'm more leaning towards my recent ability to freeze after lowering the latency back from the unusual here (512) to the usual 128 but I need another experiment to verify if this indeed changed things...

OK... Verified I believe. I closed CbB, then reopened it, loaded the song, unfroze and successfully refroze Amp5 while latency set at 128!

28 minutes ago, gustabo said:

Try rescanning your plugins through prefs (vst scan) before freezing and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks

I may try that too at some point. I hate running the scanner... and this plugin has been working fine here for quite some time. That's why I'm posting in the feedback thread instead of general Cakewalk forum

43 minutes ago, Lynn Wilson said:

Keni, I just happen to be working on a song with A5.  I froze the track and unfroze it with no problems.  Your problem may be system specific?

I just tried something that seems to have worked but it will take some more times trying this to verify.

Normally the fastest latency I run here is 128 but I had it raised to 512 to deal with the use of Amp5 in this situation.

I just lowered the latency back to 128 and Amp5 froze fine this time?

OK... This is really crazy...

I just opened the same song to work.

I unfroze the guitar track and ctl-drag copied the clip  (8bar) on it.

Then went to re-freeze and once again CbB is crashing from Amplitube 5.

I'm gonna go back re-launch CbB,

Open the same song file,

replace Amp5 with Amp 4

and begin the replacement process I posted in my previous message about this issue (above) I know I'll get it to freeze again after enough changes between plugins as I did before. .. or at least I believe I will. This is frustrating. I avoided both Amp4 and Amp5 continuing to use Amp3 being so much more resource efficient and still decent sounding.  Then I moved up to my new DAW with win10 (I was on win9.1 on my previous DAW), I discovered I can't get Amp3 authorized here. Another calamity of the changeover to Microsoft control of signing ID and all it's issues.

So I switched to Amp4 and all is well except that I lose a few amp models that for whatever reason(s)  didn't make the transition over from Amp3 so I began to think, I might as well move up to Amp5 where I have more available than Amp4.... which brought me here today.

I do like the sound I'm getting from Amp5 better than the closest I've come to same setup in Amp4 but at least it freezes ok.

Is anyone else experiencing freeze issues with Amplitube 5?

Keni

Oh yeah, things are stranger yet...

I did my best to repro the successful procedure I used earlier and it disn't work, so I though about it and remembered an error that happened while doing the successful event.

That was accidentally, I loaded both Amp4 & Amp5 into the fx bin before realizing it and then deleted Amp4 to fianlly get a successful  freeze of Amp5....

And that now worked twice as a work around here it is boiled down

Work my part enjoying Amp5, then (this will require a bit more experimentation to see what I can .successfully trim out of it) Place Amp4 into the FX rack with it and then see if removing Amp4 then allows Amp5 to freeze. If not, the longer and now twice successful method was to replace Amp5 with Amp4, Freeze, unfreeze, replace Amp4 with Amp5 and finally get Amp5 frozen! <sheesh!>

Am I the only hangout using Amplitube 5? ...or at least trying to?

After crashing twice in a row attempting to freeze a track, opening CbB took near 30 seconds as opposed to the usual 3-5 or even long taking 10....

I was ready to relax about it and simply wait it out seeing 10 seconds appeared the longest, but this time 30?

I don't understand but right now I've gotta figure out why it's repeatedly crashing instantly hitting the freeze button. I will begin by removing one little used but now thinking that's on a send buss?

More investigation needed. This is a simple 8-bar mono guitar (DI) running through Amplitube 5

I've never had this happen before. Cake drops like a hot rock. No crash warning etc, jut gone!

Only unusual plugin is in the fx bin of a bus to which this track is sending. That's first to be removed in this experiment...

OK... This one is a surprise. Turns out it's Amplitube 5 that crashes attempting to freeze. New here. Going to substitute Amplitube 4 and see...

OK... Back to the drawing board. No answers.

I rebooted, loaded CbB and song, once again attempting to freeze Amp5 and it crashed...

Re-opened CbB and song, replaced Amp5 with Amp4 and the track freezes fine...

Replaced Amp4 back up to Amp5 and guess what?

The track froze correctly!

...those little gremlins are getting tricky!

Keni

34 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said:

System specific?
That would be my guess.
How to fix it? Yikes!

t

Thanks Tom...

Possibly.

This is my only machine running this update of CbB... My other machine is far behind (good self-reminder to update it already?) and my other machines far too old....

It's not the end of the world if it's as simple as waiting the extra few seconds to load, it's more knowing it's ok, be patient and wait.... That's hard! 😉

As I said previously, when it actually did lock up my machine a couple of times (previous release) that brought me to even pay much attention to this possible issue. Thankfully it has not done that with the latest/final update...

OK. I'm off too bootup my older win8.1 system and update CbB there too!

Keni

...Ha! That was painless. win8.1 DAW, I updated both the program and the offline help then needed to signin to Bandlab which of course I expected having not done so on that machine in quite some time, but it activated instantly with my signin...

Excellent!

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

@Keni I feel for ya, but I'm not seeing any "slow to load" issues here.

t

Thanks t...

It's not so much the length of time it's the suspense of "has something locked up/gone wrong" that quickly becomes a concern... 👀

In the previous release I actually got forced to Task Mgr to stop then restart CbB. That hasn’t happened with this release, but it’s recent in mind, so when it takes a full 10 seconds or more for the empty program to open, I grow concerned.

39 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

the SHIFT forces a horizontal or vertical lock on direction so if you want the copy to stay aligned with the track or the time bar, adding the shift while copying is useful.

I was about to post a similar response.

..and remember that all modifier combinations are available to be used including ctrl-alt-shift, so performing a drag operation during such an execution may be necessary... yes?

Sorry I can't help with the SoundID issue, but this other issue is still on my mind...

The Opening of the program itself. No song file.

Sometimes it opens normally and sometimes it takes longer.... and sometimes it takes much longer?

Nothing else is running on my DAW any differently at any of these times. I set everything to manual everywhere.

So this is a thought.... Might it have to do with verifying activation etc.? That would quickly supply a reason for the varying lengths of time as the internet through speeds vary constantly.. If this is the case, can't the program finish opening with it's current status and have that verified after it's open? It would go a long way to comfortable launches.

So far my Windows 10 experience still pales to how much more cleanly and easily my win8.1 system still runs, but this stuff makes it feel like 3 steps forward, two steps back...? I know this CbB issueproably has nothing to do with that, but I'm on a roll...

15 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

I got the impression (and only an impression) was that Sonar would be the same code and features as CbB but with a interface better supporting the scaling of various elements.

No doubt there will be some additional features but what it can do will be based on CbB. So all of these bug fixes matter.

Exactly...  It's on going, but becoming a paid version. I think of it simply as the next major update as compared with simply bug fixes as this last update is. They froze the feature set etc so all new features will appear in Sonar. I'm guessing there's other new things. More than the big issue of the vector graphics change, but they are in the upcoming version (Sonar, not CbB).

52 minutes ago, stony said:

No. You need Kontakt Full in Version 6.7.1 and above.

Thanks. I kind of guessed that but thought I'd ask...

On 10/19/2023 at 6:25 AM, cclarry said:

DarkSkyAudio has seen some big changes in the last two months.

We’ve restructured so now it’s just me running the show. To give this change a bit of a wink and a nod, I have released the next evolution of my FREE Kontakt engine. 

Socora LITE features next-gen systems and sonic wizardry that nudge it even closer to the authentic sound and feel of a high-end, hardware analog synth. 

 …and it’s still FREE to download! 

I don't know if the Password is generic or not

https://www.darkskyaudio.com/subscribers/

Will it run in the free version of Kontakt?

2 hours ago, sunshine dreaming said:

On my system my custom workspace correctly was there as always. No difference.

 

I don't think its pointless to cure all these issues, since at some point it'll be the final version of Cakewalk by BandLab and those of us who will use that for some more years are very grateful, that all these things are corrected.  I really appreciate that they're doing this. Especially the promise, that its working even after the new product is there, is a nice touch for us. Thank you!

Very true, except these things need fixing going forward into Sonar. I think it's possible that many of these fixes may be applied to both programs? For us, it's unknown the extent of differences. For example, I doubt they're gonna re-write the audio engine in this changeover. There may be some surprises, but the only thing I/We know for sure is that the gfx portion of the UI has been altered to be vextor based gfx.... Everything else  (afaik) is the continuation of Cake/Son

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

@Keni if you use the Cakewalk installer tool off the CbB product page, that will get the update. 

Thanks Jonathan! Once again you are quick to the rescue!

I'm off to do it the long way! 😉

OK... Update finally installed.... this was a rough one though....

Not only wouldn't the updater respond, but after downloading the installer from the web page as suggested, when I ran it, nothing happened for near 5 minutes when I went to inspect. Seeing only a taskbar icon with nothing happening, I then opened Task Manager to end the process and try again but when I was about to proceed it notified me that setup was running, so I chanced a bit more wait and finally the installer ran. Changes in the install windows had me a bit uncertain of how to proceed without possibly wrecking my established setup (I hate having to rebuild that!) but finally it is installed and appears working.

Now gonna check for whether it has left me "signed in to Bandlab") as expected etc...

Not trying to be a pest, but...

Please get Sonar out soon so we can escape all this (almost) pointless issues with a software that's ending...

Thanks for everyone's hard work. It looks as though you Bakers really put a hard push into getting as many fixes as possible into this final release.... Many Kudos!

Keni

Ouch! I responded without noticing the new update!

Still trying to get it but I keep receiving the error message:

validateUpdateResponse: client request failed (0)

Overloaded server? or.....

Sheesh! Still the same.... I keep trying. Including closing and re-opening CbB but I continue to get this response.... I'll wait longer.... What else is there to do?

...and 45 minutes (or so) later, still the same.

Frustrating!

41 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said:

Mine remained at "None"

t

Mine too...

1 hour ago, sunshine dreaming said:

I disagree. The start-up of the Cakewalk app on my system itself and loading projects is somewhat faster with the latest version. and this latest version was already faster even before I did a clean OS re-install and full defrag. In the past it was installed on a SSD drive and should have been faster, but it was not. Now  I installed it to the default C drive (on a HDD) and opening it is really faster. And also on closing its getting closed much better.  Some of these speed-ups may be based on the clean re-install of the OS.   However, any sound content / samples /  IRs are stored on the SSD. And the projects itself are also stored on a different harddisk partitition.

Interesting... Not the case here. It consistently takes it's time loading with spinner than ever before. This is a relatively new Computer build and essentially does nothing but Cakewalk/Sonar and related internet. I did not have this lag prior to this update. 2022.09 was much faster opening...

8 minutes ago, mettelus said:

+1, I am firmly entrenched in using an old copy of Adobe Audition in the Utilities menu so I can do that in less than 30 seconds and not require any track bounce afterwards, but I am also always on the lookout for options to new folks that function and don't require massive money investment. Spending CPU power every time the transport runs to remove something that you want to obliterate anyway is a waste of computer resources. I was hoping this might have tracking potential, but the overhead is a bit much to be feasible.

I have always avoided using that kind of stuff while recording outside of Dolby/DBX noise reduction back in the day.

The chances of losing some stuff while recording has always out weighed the noise issue. Safer to remove it later.

Luckily, these days, tech has evolved to a relatively decent level. Far fewer noise problems than in the past.

...but when it perks up it's scratchy little head we have bluenoise to help!