Gswitz

Thanks Craig. I modified the links.

Thanks, @JohnG No big thing. I can hear the differences, but they are subtle. Both tracks would stand. When using more than 2 ribbons, I'll probably use the asp880 on low impedance for spillover. When possible, I'll use the neve for the ribbons. I'll not be disappointed if no one listens to the tracks. They were a study i did for myself that I'm sharing the results of.

http://gswitz.blob.core.windows.net/tunes/20190312_Preamps_A.wav http://gswitz.blob.core.windows.net/tunes/20190312_Preamps_B.wav http://gswitz.blob.core.windows.net/tunes/20190312_Preamps_C.wav http://gswitz.blob.core.windows.net/tunes/20190312_Preamps_D.wav I recorded a ribbon mic and a small diaphragm condenser. I used the identical guitar passage re-amped. I used the identical analog to digital converter. The only difference was the preamps. On both preamps, I used the high-pass filter set around the same place. I didn't move the mics between the two; I only unplugged the mics from one pre and plugged them into the other. Then I normalized the tracks to -3 dB. The ldc was recorded at high impedance on the Audient ASP 880 which is 2800 Ohms. The ribbon on the Audient was recorded at low impedance or 220 Ohms. On the Neve, both had an input impedance of 9600 or so. What do you think?

I made a first pass effort of recording the same reamped passage using first the Neve 5211 and then the Audient asp880. I set the Audient to low impedance and frankly had a tough time hearing differences between the two tracks. I didn't move the mics between recordings. It was much easier to get a good level with the neve. I normalized the tracks after recording so they were close in volume.

John, I totally appreciate the lesson. I'm not really sure how much help it is to be honest because the AES link (above) suggests 10k to 63k Ohms for preamp impedance for their ribbons. I've never before had something close to that, but I just picked up a new pre-amp. The Rupert Neve 5211, which has 9k impedance. I'm going to try a recording soon (re-amped) where I shift a ribbon between various preamps recording the identical guitar part. Then I'll switch between them to sample them and see what I think. I just got it racked up today. I'll share a link to a video breaking down the different recordings once I've had a chance to make it. Today, I'm done. I spent hours re-organizing my rack and testing all the inputs and outputs. 🙂 I'm always nervous when I pull the whole thing apart, but happy when it's done. Especially when everything works when I'm done. The compressor can't be between hot things, so I'm just putting it on top. I can screw it in before going out and then put it on top when I get there. 🙂 That's why the 2u hole.

You mean your set up was cabled with balanced cables? Mine too. Examples of why I like this... 1. I can send any pre-amp to any dac input. 2. I can take any dac output and send it to my amp for recording my send to the amp before it hits the amp. This is useful b/c I can cause feedback that gets recorded with the direct. I can also send the channel after playing it to the amp for re-amping. 3. I run the feed from my rock-crusher (amp attenuator) back to any input I like. I can mic the amp if I like but I don't have to. 4. I can take any output to my compressor and back in to any dac input. 5. I can split some pres to send one channel directly to the compressor while the same gets fed into the dac. 6. I can plug in sends to monitors, headphones or mains right there in front without messing around in back. ** I have done all these things since before I had the patch-bay, but now it's easier and involves less crawling around with a flashlight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_church @InstrEd

I looked closely at making my own cables but decided that for me it was ultimately cheaper to buy what i need. I use cables that don't crackle. I use the shortest cables reasonable for the task. I try not to walk on cables. I do have favorites. Regarding cabling, the best thing I've bought is a patch bay. This gives me easy access to everything. I love it. I plug mics into pres but most of the cabling into my interface always stays the same.

I don't know what N.B. simple means. I think this chart showing impedance differences by frequency means it isn't possible to correctly match a low impedance preamp to this mic. I guess the fact that the Rupert neve 5211 doesn't have a low impedance switch might mean it isn't necessary. It helps that you say volume doesn't compensate for an impedance mismatch. JohnG, in what cases do you use a low impedance setting in a preamp?

Congrats Jack. Thanks for sharing the list.

Thanks folks. I think I'm going to try to answer the question with my gear, at least for guitar at a healthy volume. I'm going to go ahead and record something, position some mics and switch the pre-amps and impedances until I have at least one nice sample with my gear. I'll make a video when I'm done showing the mics on the different pres so you can see too.

I've really never taken to either. When screen sets were new, i messed up a live recording by causing a dropout changing screen sets mid recording. Cuss cuss Cuss Changes to the ui i could easily make without causing a drop out manually, one at a time, caused the drop out because they all happened at once. Plus, I'm kinda slow and can't seem t to remember what i saved in which screen set. I just use the short cut keys to bring up what i want. No drop outs. The short cuts don't change. Works for me.

Maybe. I found an aea link that says the impedance varies by frequency. This means for passive ribbon mics when you don't use a pre with extremely high impedance you are choosing to distort the bass and high end. The lower the impedance the more the distortion. I feel sure lots of great recordings have been made with passive ribbons plugged into pres with insufficiently high impedance so it's a sound you can mimic for that reason. Insufficiently high impedance will distort and reduce high end and low end. Because you impact how these transients are captured by the ribbon, you can't just add them back with eq later to get the same sound with more noise. It will sound different as well as be diminished in volume. All of this makes me think active ribbons might make sense for many ribbon users. I also add that I've now been enjoying passive ribbons for yikes ten years? using pres as low as 2 kohms and loving the sound. I do not own an active ribbon for comparison. I suppose the freedom to use a passive ribbon with a preamp with lower impedance might be the nice thing you get for using passive ribbons. In other words, the freedom to intentionally distort and diminish some frequencies could be seen as a good thing even if aea never says so.

And then this link... https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-impedance Makes me think I've learned all this before and forgotten it.

I'm starting to think that the volume of the source for a ribbon might make a big difference. A screaming guitar might go just fine with a lower impedance setting where a soft acoustic or singer might need the crazy high impedance. Yes?

Another AEA link https://www.aearibbonmics.com/how-impedance-affects-ribbon-microphones/ "Passive ribbon mics are dependent on the impedance of the preamp. Since 2005, AEA has been producing preamps that have extremely high input impedance that ranges from 10k ohms up to 63k ohms. This is optimal for passive ribbon mics." "The basic rule is: the higher the preamp’s input impedance, the better it is suited to reproduce the full range of a ribbon microphone."

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neve-4081 This one also talks about low-impedance mode intended for ribbon mics.

I know someone will say 'listen'. I can assure you I do listen. But I often set up a bunch of mics and roll tape and hope for the best. I don't listen to every mic. I have to go on gut and practice for placement and impedance and etc etc.

I have some preamp choices and they all have different specs etc. One of my preamps is an Audient ASP 880 which I've messed with quite a bit by now. In general, it seems like using the highest impedance most of the time makes sense. If you want to gently roll off bass, maybe use 220 or so with dynamics (?), but they work just fine with 2800 Ohms (high). Mid is 1200 ohms. This manual describes and shows some frequency charts for a sm57 at different impedances... https://d9w4fhj63j193.cloudfront.net/ASP880/1.+Manuals/ASP880+Manual+(En).pdf I can definitely see that using higher impedance gives you more level as relates to noise when using ribbons. I've always used high impedance with my ribbons. AEA says use high on this link... https://www.aearibbonmics.com/how-impedance-affects-ribbon-microphones/ But in this video today, the guy says use low impedance with your ribbons and that's why there's a low-z button a Neve pre. This Neve Pre talks about 9K Ohms impedance when 48 phantom is not engaged. So what is it when phantom is on? Why doesn't it matter? I can't even find it on the web what it is with phantom engaged. Is it just the same (9k) but doesn't matter? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/5211--rupert-neve-designs-5211-2-channel-microphone-preamp I also read this one... https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/121838-impedance-setting-neve-1073dpa.html which talks about a Neve pre with switchable impedance between 300 and 1200 https://vintageking.com/neve-1073-dpa Anyway, I find preamp choosing and setting a little puzzling. I recognize that the lower impedance settings are maybe a touch more feedback resistant and have a bit of bass roll-off. My RME UCX has 470K ohm on the instrument input. 2k ohm on the mic pres. 8k ohm on the TRS. http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/fireface_ucx.php The instrument input on the Audient ASP880 is 1000k ohms. "Therefore we need at least a 400kΩ load to get the most signal and tone from our instruments. It should then come as no surprise that most classic valve guitar amplifiers have a very high input impedance - 1MegΩ!" My RME Quad Mic Pre has 2 kOhm and TRS 4 kOhm. Seems like 2 kOhm is kinda normal for a mic pre that may or may not have phantom. ................................... Right now, I'm feeling like using high impedance for just about everything except drum dynamic mics, feedback type situations for vocal dynamics especially with female vocalists where bass frequencies are less important, or dynamics being paired with another mic that will carry the bass. Could some of you nice folks set me straight?

Yep... I'm on a phone.

Ads bug me.

I LOVE ribbons. I have 2. Not the aea. Mxl and royer. And i love them even more paired with another Mic. Honestly, my ribbons are usually at a distance from my mouth. I'm a little gun shy of damaging them. I cover them during breaks. C414 is cool. Sounds good. Adjustable polar pattern helps capture what you want. Takes a little practice. I have a tube that has grown on me. But, for just me, i don't often break it out. Honestly, the vocal Mic i use for me a lot is a shure sm86. It isn't fancy, but works fine.

I have an older version of this. 10+ years, I'm guessing. I actually looked at your link bc the polar pattern doesn't seem normal cardioid from my experience. Or doesn't bleed quite as much as some of my ldcs. I didn't find the polar pattern on your link. Mine is missing the high pass switch and the pad switch. I do use it fairly often. Usually for lady singers. The screw is broken on my shock mount so it can be hard to position. .... Just found this about the pattern at Sweetwater... The Bluebird SL offers excellent off-axis rejection, thanks to its unusually tight cardioid polar pattern. But it isn't traditional hyper cardioid. When two musicians are playing facing each other so the blue bird has its back to the other musician, it still doesn't bleed much.

House on a sacred burial ground?

Lift grounds until noise goes away. Sometimes, plugging all gear into the same jack can help. Watch for heavy things plugged into different sources and each other. Example.. Amp direct out plugged into computer interface. When the amp is plugged in across the room this can be helped with a ground lift in some cases. Flip case is reamp line plugged from interface to amp input. This is why you find ground lift switches on reamp boxes.