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Fret Flintstone or whatever your real name is: I really wish that you hadn't posted and hijacked my thread with irrelevant comments.

Hello, I am just beginning pre-production work on my 15th album. I am seeking someone to write the liner notes. This involves getting very familiar with the recording and being able to write intelligently and thoughtfully about the music. It's a paid gig of course. Must have writing credits! Contact Jerry Gerber if interested at: jerry@jerrygerber.com or 415-242-4003 Thanks, Jerry www.jerrygerber.com

This is my first attempt using the latest incarnation of East West's Word Builder and choir. The results are not bad at all. When I go to hear a live choir in a church I usually do not understand the text unless I have the program notes with the text printed given to me. So I included the words too. I may make a few changes in the next few weeks.... Jerry PLAY

I strongly doubt they will get rid of it.

Do you have any reason to suspect that the developers would remove the staff view? Especially after updating it and fixing longstanding bugs?

My mistake. CW can display up to 23 staves at one time, regardless of screen size. I wrote 18, but that's not correct. What I'd love to see is MusicXML being able to export all tracks that contain staff view data at once. Exporting using MIDI type 1 files works OK but it would be nice to have XML as a choice...

Give an example of "wildly inaccurate", other than the tied and dotted triplets, which is common knowledge. Why waste your time on a CW forum, why not spend time on the DP forum telling everyone how great the notation editor is, when in fact it's no better, and in some cases, much worse, that CWs? Your feedback is not as objective or as fact-based as you pretend it is. I've used both programs extensively and CW is better in countless ways, including text size, handling of VSTs, the ability to customize CC and instrument names, the simplicity and power of audio envelopes, and of course the notation editor's speed and visibility of more information. I can go on. CW is without doubt the most underrated DAW on the market. And speaking of markets--CW is free. You don't know a great value when it's staring you in the face! JG www.jerrygerber.com

Maybe it's of no concern to you, but when a piece has 45 tracks, the more staves I can see on one screen and the more measures I can see on one screen the faster I can work. DP's notation editor is slow. Very slow. And it cannot display nested or tied triplets (or maybe it's dotted triplets?) correctly. CW cannot display tied or dotted triplets correctly either, but again, it plays them back flawlessly and correcting those kinds of things in Sibelius is easy. I don't go by "reputation". I go by my own personal experience in the studio. Of course I don't expect that what works for one musician will work for another, we're all different. So I'll bow out of a pissing contest and just say I prefer CW's notation to DPs any day. That's why I went back to Cakewalk. Have you tried using or comparing CW's tabs to DP's clumsy switching between various groups of staves? The tabs are instantaneous, so I can go from winds to strings to brass in a fraction of a second, there's no lag time. I really appreciate that. Jerry www.jerrygerber.com

Wow! I hope you're right. I'll check in a few minutes. Last time I checked, 18 staves was the max. But maybe it depends upon screen size?

If that is really your experience with CW, you've got audio/computer issues that have nothing to do with Cakewalk. I've never seen Cakewalk's score not sync up with playback with MIDI, although one older version of Sonar did have VST sync problems with long pieces. But that problem doesn't exist any more as I recently completed a 4 movement 30 minute work with lots of VSTs and no issues with sync at all. Cakewalk's staff editor can show a lot more music than DP on one screen. The other thing that is remarkable about CW's notation are the tabs. I have all the winds, brass, percussion, synths and strings on 5 different tabs, and switching between them is instantaneous. With DP there's always a lag time of several seconds to switch screens to see different staves. And because Cakewalk's editor is laid out more like an arranger's pad rather than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper, it's much better for large orchestral scoring. I've said this before: A notation editor in a DAW is for composition and editing, not for creating a final score. For that you need a graphics program like Sibelius or Finale or Dorito. For MIDI sequencing, CW's notation is more than adequate. When I am done composing and sequencing a piece, before rendering to wave, I export to Sibelius and create the score. I wouldn't use any DAWs notation editor to create a score, they're really input and editing tools, nothing more...

That's right. 18 staves is the maximum CW can display at one time. The problem is that if have, say, 25 staves, then 7 will not be able to be exported with XML. MusicXML can only export the staves that CW can display. I would love to be wrong about this but I don't think I am. .

I agree. After checking out Reaper, using DP for 18 months, trying Cubase for a few months and checking out Pro Tools, I have no doubt that Cakewalk's staff view is the best. And now that the snap functions are completely fixed, it's even better. I can see more staves and more notes on the Cakewalk staff view than I can on any other program. That is very helpful. My complaint, or question, is: Is it possible to export to MusicXML ALL of the tracks at once? I could be wrong, but when I try to export to XML I can only do the staves that are visible, instead of the entire file. So, if I have 40 tracks, which isn't uncommon, I cannot find a way to export all of them via XML. Am I wrong about this? Thanks, Jerry

Thanks Nigel!

Thanks Bjorn. Yeah, Requiem Pro.

Wow, Noynekker, that's really gratifying to hear. When I compose I never have a particular audience in mind, I write what my heart and mind imagine and wants to hear. When another person finds meaning in my work, it's very satisfying. As far as the choral, I am looking for a VST choral library that allows me to actually construct real words. Requiem Pro is very good, the Latin syllables allow me to arrange the syllables that work well as sound, but with no literal meaning. If I can find a library that is recorded as well as Requiem Pro that has a sophisticated word builder, I'd buy it in a second. East West has one called "Hollywood Choirs" (ech! I already hate the name) but I hear that the word builder is the best part and the choir voices themselves lack definition and depth. I can't wait for someone to produce a choir that has SATB recorded superbly so that staccatos and marcatos are crisp (like Requiem Pro) but with a sophisticated word builder. If anyone knows of a library like that, please tell me! Best, Jerry

Never mind, I found new themes that already have been modified to show the new module updates. Thanks, Jerry

Well, that is both strange and aggravating because when I updated to the new version on my office machine, which has the exact same themes as my DAW, the Select module shows the 4 new options as expected. Even if I change themes, and I've tried about 6, they all work fine. But on my DAW, with the exact same themes, the Select Module does NOT show these 4 new options. I realize there's another place in the program in track view to turn them on or off, but this is aggravating as I don't have time to start editing all my themes. And the fact that I don't need to edit them at all on the other machine is very weird... Are there any downloadable updated themes available that will resolve this? Thanks Scook, Jerry

In the newest version (January 2021) the Select Module in the Control Bar is supposed to show 4 options in regards to how the arranger section displays data. But these 4 options are not appearing after installation and a reboot. What is wrong? I downloaded same version onto one other machine and it displays correctly. Thanks, Jerry

You're welcome!

Thanks for listening Starise! I'm glad that my intention for the composition came through to you.

Thank you Ed.

Thank you Grebz, I'm so glad you enjoyed the music. Jerry

Thanks David for listening.

Thanks Deering Amps!

Thanks! VSTs are mentioned in my initial posting...