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azslow3

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Posts posted by azslow3


  1. 17 hours ago, S K said:

    Does it work exactly like it should, (like it does with Ableton, CUbase etc) or is it a partial workaround thing?

    "Like it should" is relative... they support "Logic Pro X, Ableton Live, Cubase, Nuendo und GarageBand". Cakewalk is not in the list. So, from NI perspective it will work "as it should" in Cakewalk, without all that features 😀

    You pay NI $500+ for the controller, I think it is better ask NI to support Cakewalk then reversed, since you don't pay Cakewalk.

     


  2. As I have written in another thread, VST2 is obsolete and VST3 does not support "program changes" directly, it is forced to be "preset change" possibly (auto) bound to incoming PC MIDI messages (by host, messages are not delivered to plug-ins). So that idea is closed: in case of VST (which is VST3 only since 2018) PCs make no sense.

    Even before, while some soft synths can switch presets in "real-time", most can't. They have to access the disk to load the preset and other related info (f.e. samples). In real-time with "modern" latency that has to happened within 1-2ms. That doesn't work even with i9+M2+50M file, while usual drum synth has to load 1-5GB. So, instant switching in general can work stable with "preloaded" presets only, and that in turn can be done with parallel tracks only.

     

    • Like 1

  3. 1 hour ago, mdiemer said:

    Being of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it school," I avoid updates solely for the purpose of "using the latest thing." This is a good example of the wisdom of that approach. VST3's usually cause CW to crash on my computer. there is no sonic advantage to using Vst3;  Vst2 sounds just as good. When Vst2 stops working, I will switch to VST3. By then will have worked out the bugs (hopefully).

    Don't hope, by then there will be VST4 😉

    Steinberg has "fixed" the license for VST3, plug-ins developers HAVE TO switch to whatever new version of VST Steinberg decide to release within fixed period of time (VST2 is still used many years after it is declared obsolete and by now 2 years since no new developers can sign VST2 license... Steinberg does not like that...)

     


  4. 10 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

    What you may find is that for some reason, most VST3 sims can't accept program change commands, even if the VST2 versions can. I've tested quite a few plug-ins and had consistent results. I'm not sure why, there's no technical reason why it shouldn't be possible.

    For me, there is a good technical reason why MIDI is strange in VST3. I was digging into that when creating GM VST3, obviously with the need to process program changes on all 16 channels (and other MIDI messages). Steinberg has KILLED MIDI in VST3, there is simply no MIDI input stream there, as it is known in any other plug-in formats (including VST2).

    Notes /PB are are still there. CC is reasonably "workarounded". But PC is disaster. Apart from questionable decisions, what they write in the documentation does not match what they have written in the code (SDK). So plug-in and host developers can only guess how that can/should work.

    BTW my VST3 doesn't work in Cakewalk (https://github.com/AZSlow3/FluidSynthVST) It was written for REAPER (Linux and Windows) and it works there, but not in CW. While that is a kind of "my fault", that by itself tells a lot about "compatibility" in VST3 world. Not surprise REAPER shows PCs (as parameters, that in addition to duplication in "presets" the prescribed way), while Cakewalk stops showing parameters starting from the first PC :)

    PS. I hope everything from Steinberg is declared obsolete one day. VST2 and ASIO was good, but both are made ill by license and "force obsolete" decision for VST2. VST3 is still in DIY/prototype, from the ideas, documentation and the code point of view (not to mention it is C++ ABI dependent, something clearly programmed to produce troubles coming from different compilers C++ ABI incompatibility). The "quality" is best demonstrated in VST3 Linux, these parts was written by someone who has never programmed on Linux before and had no time to read the documentation... Even after some problem is identified, explained and possible fix is provided, it take them ages to fix: just a week ago I have got notification that the problem/solution I reported more then a year ago is "fixed in development version".


  5. Ah sorry.... I am Russian, but for long time I don't notice the difference between Russian, German and English on YouTube... 🙂

    In short: when released, M2/M4 had no real loopback (while it was declired). But that feature was added later.

    There are 2 loobacks: one just with output, one mixing output with hardware input (f.e. to record windows sounds + mic).

    But there is just one "output", so if it is already used for loopback, you can't use it for something else. In other words, you can hear what you are recording but you can't hear something you don't want to record (f.e. other tracks from Cakewalk, otherwise they are also recorded).

    MAY BE IMPORTANT: I have not found any prove that all works with 2 ASIO applications. Loopback does not automatically mean 2x ASIO, can be WDM+ASIO/WDM+WDM only.


  6. 9 hours ago, Misha said:

    The MOTU M2 I want mainly because it has that loopback feature and it just seems it just might do what I want from it.

     

    14 hours ago, Misha said:

    I intend to use this particular loopback interface with headphones only...  You are running your setup, directly monitoring external source (youtube) through dedicated 1&2 outputs, but  headphones I think would give me whole mix. Which can be problematic because as I understand the recording channel in Cakewalk has to be muted so it does not create feedback.  

    My goal is to route the audio from non VST, standalone software to a track(s) in Cakewalk for auditioning and recording in Cakewalk. Sounds simple with the loopback, but it might get tricky.

    And that in fact can be problematic. I don't have MOTU, but M2 is 2x2 interface. So

    In other words you most probably (I simply do not see any theoretical possibility) can't monitor loopback recording together with Cakewalk, so Cakewalk output should be muted when you are recording (or there should be no other tracks in Cakewalk and recorded track should have echo off).

    Logically M4 should be able to do that, creating loopback on one pair of outputs and cakewalk output to another pair (since 4x4)


  7. All RME interfaces allow arbitrary loopback. By arbitrary I mean you are free to compose several mixes (f.e. in your case from one software output) as use that mixes as input in other software. That "loopbacks" can be used for other mixes, f.e. for headphones (mixed with any other signals, f.e. Cakewalk output).

    Note that the number of mixes is equal to the number of the interface IO channels. F.e. Babyface pro has 12. Related physical channels are irrelevant, so you can use ADAT channels for loopbacks and still have all analog channels for something else.

    Multi ASIO capable, so both (or more) programs can use ASIO in parallel (so use any driver mode).

    PS.  I have RME, so I have checked all that really works.

    PSPS. without "special" interface, you can try voicemeeter banana to do the trick. I have not checked it for multi-asio, but Skype->DAW with fancy routing works.


  8. 13 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

    Yep. I always do this. 

    😅 I've checked for these too. I have my fair share of knowledge. 

    Try it yourself.


    As you can guess, when I was writing ReaCWP I was also checking the result. So on my own I always could Null (down to reasonable level) whatever I have thought has to null.

    Your question can be solved scientific way: upload 2 projects, so CWP and RPP, with the same example audio and free compressor which sound/does something differently. And let people explain the difference.

    If you can (have time/internet/have the place), also render and upload the results which are different. It can be something apart from projects producing that (but don't be surprised rendered output is different from what you hear, in that case please try to "render" playback using audio loopback).

    Just to make it clear. I am convinced plug-ins are working differently for you,  it is not imagination nor "0.1dB". I simply try to pin from where it comes, in case you are interested. But there are so many variables that guessing in the thread is not productive.

     


  9. 47 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

    Well aware of that, Thanks. "PAN LAW." 

    Now onwards to why the same reverb sounds fuller in reaper and thinner/sharper less analogue in CbB. 

    You need to match the input first. As I have mentioned already, that is not easy.

    • Pan law and exac level matching should be achieved. Note that corresponding settings in Cakewalk and REAPER are different, the same result is not always coming from almost the same words in the preferences, so that has to be checked explicitly.
    • audio sample size used for processing. Check both DAWs are in 64bit processing (sample size as floating point, not program code) mode.
    • audio sample size and sample rate used for the input. F.e. if your recording is 96kHz, Cakewalk apply pre-conversion in case the project settings are different (and project settings are always in sync with your audio interface). In REAPER project sample rate and interface sample rate can be different. Also note conversion algos (f.e. different for "online" and "offline"). Don't forget CAKEWALK can upsample/split buffers, if corresponding settings are activated.
    • output chain, including rates and levels. Also don't forget to check you have nothing in the REAPER Monitoring chain (since it is a kind of "outside of the project", it is easy to forget).
    • plug-in settings. Not only current "preset". DAWs (can) indicated offline/online rendering mode to plug-in and plug-in can use that. More safe is compare "rendered" results, and in case they are the same find the reason "real-time" is different (there are several related settings).

    And the list is far from complete...

    But one program (plug-in), with the same input and the same settings produce the same result (down to random component, which in most plug-ins is not time line nor host dependent). Computer programs are not "creative" and I have not heard any plug-in explicitly made sound different in different DAWs (while that is technically possible, if caught, the (commercial) plug-in developer will loose the reputation... and you know, in the audio world "believe" is almost everything ;) )

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1

  10. 1 hour ago, mdiemer said:

    Yes, something is going on there. I too experienced a different sound, and when I recently exported a project from Reaper to CbB, I had to reduce the volume on my mix bus to -8 or more. I usually keep it at zero as much as possible. I can't figure out how this happened, and have had to work on this project differently than I usually do in Cakewalk. 

    I have always heard that all DAWS do everything the same, and there can be no difference in sound between them. then how to account for what I experienced? I imported only midi, and removed any effects and controller events other than 7 and 11. So how did this happen? No one on this forum has been able to explain it (I had a thread going on it). Something is going on here, and we don't know what it is. And neither does Bob Dylan (sorry, couldn't resist). 

    DAWs sound the same, down to (theoretically) perceptible level. But the comparison should be done right, f.e. default settings in REAPER differ from default settings in Cakewalk. No, the output is not digitally equivalent. F.e. in Cakewalk audio is ALWAYS aligned to project samples, in REAPER it CAN BE aligned, but it is not by default and the procedure is rather tricky (taking into account the project, the clip and the audio interface can have different sample rate, that make no much sense there).

    Good start for comparison is just open Cakewalk project in REAPER, with ReaCWP. Many settings which can be converted are converted, so the sound should more closely match to the original then by simple "copy paste" audio/midi. BTW in ReaCWP documentation I explain many technical/internal differences between both DAWs (only from Cakewalk->REAPER perspective, not touching reverse direction).

    --------

    For the thread: I have recognized many advantages of Cakewalk after switching to REAPER, they was so "obvious" that I have not noticed them before... So:

    • my colleague ask me really often: "I again can't find how to..." and my answer is "wait a moment... I have to remember...",  realizing in Cakewalk the same is simple and doesn't need  "memorizing". REAPER is way more "flexible", but that has its price. Some highlights (the list is really long, so just few):
      • for simple MIDI based work, especially when (multi-track) MIDI files are the origin and/or outcome, REAPER is in "hard to use" up to "that doesn't work..." range.
      • step sequencer, matrix, etc. Good in Cakewalk.
      • channel and other "must have" controls (f.e. "where can I select my MIDI keyboard for the track?") are good placed in Cakewalk
    • for "safety" - REAPER all the way.
      • Multi-platform, all versions (including the first one...) available for download and take no time (13MB) do download and install. Simultaneous versions completely independent (portable install), offline authorization, not restricted demo.
      • So you know your can start the DAW anywhere and you will be able to start it anywhere in far future, independent from the company nor license existence.
      • This DAW was made to do anything without stopping the transport (Cakewalk is better then Sonar in that respect, but still some operations have to be done with silence).
      • deep troubleshooting is build-in into REAPER, with all timings, CPU consumption and delays (per plug-in). Plus 2 way plug-in isolation.
      • anticipative engine is way more forgiving, when it comes to "play along"/mixing/mastering. It also void Plug-in Delay Compensation problem during recording. Note that "all in real time" is somehow better work in Cakewalk, especially when some plug-ins in monitoring chain have tiny delays (REAPER make them longer...) or the system power is on limit (in rather special conditions I could make a chain of plug-ins work without glitches in Cakewalk, while that couldn't be achieved in REAPER without rising the buffer).
    • for experiments:
      • fancy routing (including MIDI) and modulations - REAPER
      • control surfaces - Cakewalk (AZ Controller... not many understand that, but some do...)

    In reality, it is good to have both 😉

     

    • Like 2

  11. It is better to set the same sample rate for the interface in all application, then convince the interface to switch into that rate (up to reboot, in case it refuse switching by software). So, check Windows sound settings and set targeted sample rate (check all visible in Windows inputs and outputs individually), then check Cakewalk and the interface controlling panel.

    That is especially important with one interface in the system, it will be "default" for Windows and so most probably in use outside DAW. Different interfaces react differently on switching requests, in best case Windows application are silenced when DAW/own control panel is switching to something else.

    Assuming Windows and Cakewalk are using the same sample rate, most interfaces can output ASIO and Windows sounds simultaneously. Some, but not all. That information is somehow hard to find for particular interface. Some people claim playing with flags (disabling them) in the "Exclusive" section in Windows settings can help with some interfaces. Impact on performance/latency/stability is a different question.

    There is no reports some interface can work with different sample rates at the same time. All have just one hardware clock. But in some driver frameworks Windows can re-sample on the fly, so OP can try MME and WASAPI Shared to get some sound even in case interface is not working with the Project clock (Cakewalk Project sample rate is locked and interface/driver should be able to work with it, unlike in some other DAWs...).


  12. ACT is no more convoluted then Ableton scripting, the difference is Akai supports Ableton and doesn't support Cakewalk...

    Instead of videos, I recommend to read the documentation: https://bandlab.github.io/cakewalk/docs/Cakewalk Reference Guide.pdf page 1272+

    You can use 8 (+shift) buttons and 8 faders of your controller with  "ACT MIDI Controller plug-in". You can use more buttons with "Generic Surface plug-in". The functionality is more or less limited by strip and (VST) plug-ins controls.

    If you want to use APC with Matrix view (something in Ableton direction), that is assigned in the Matrix view itself (ACT does not support it).

    APC is a controller specially designed for Ableton, which in turn has rather special work flow. Cakewalk likes "mixer" controllers (Mackie or clones). You can try to use APC with Matrix / assign some commands to buttons / use faders for VST controller (with ACT or MIDI learn). In practice that is not controller which steer Cakewalk well, I will say "X-Touch Mini" is minimal (and the cheapest) in the right direction. 


  13. On 9/22/2020 at 12:46 AM, Scott Kendrick said:

    OK - so I did make some progress.. I had a heck of a time getting the ASIO drivers to work. Cakewalk would hang constantly - turns out I had to uninstall both ASIO4ALL and part of my soundcard (RealTek) drivers that had their own ASIO... once I did that I could select TD25 for both INPUT and OUTPUT devices and use ASIO as the driver mode... then when I play my audio file in cakewalk to play along with, the audio actual transmits back to the module through the USB - don't need audio out from the PC. The only tentative problem right now is as soon as I start turning buffer down, I get audio drop outs, playback stops or choppyness... so if in the end I can't get lower buffer/latency, I don't know if I gain anything, but it's seeming like maybe the latency is pretty low. Not sure where an audio interface fits still, also not sure how to capture drums in a midi and then route back to the EZDrummer instrument, without reating a new instrument and copying midi into that..

    My TD11 shows ~12ms latency.  I guess TD25 is in the same category. But before thinking about reducing it by audio interface, there are several things to check.

    1. if you can't set all settings to lowest (in Roland ASIO panel) without drop outs/choppyness, you need to optimize your computer till you can. Another interface will not help to solve that problem
    2. it can be 12ms is ok for you. Simple check: put speakers ~4m away from your head. Is it still comfortable to play e-drums? If yes, you should be fine when playing throw EZDrummer using headphones (10ms ~ 3.4m for the sound speed).
    3. check that latency throw EZDrummer is really what is expected based on current reported latency. I repeat, if you see 12ms it should really be close to the same in headphones with EZDrummer as with internal TD sound and speakers 4m away.

     


  14. I can confirm, corresponding command does not work.

    I do not think there is any difference between known (official) Logic Control documentation and MCU (Pro) in the same mode. Cakewalk plug-in strictly follows the layout. While I do not have any Mackie device, I have checked remotely and X-Touch (big one) sends exactly the same messages. http://www.azslow.com/files/mcu.png

    I am not sure what you mean by "standard db log 10"... Cakewalk value to dB is significantly not linear. I personally approximate it with 4 linear peaces (that gives sufficient for me precision for all possible values). REAPER use exp(dB*lg(10)/20) for saved value. But it converts it to "fader" (so MIDI) values with quite complicated (not public) formula. They have mentioned somewhere (if I remember correctly) it is a king of Mackie (Logic) approach, probably it should be described in some documentation (I haven not rechecked Logic documentation, may be it is there).

    In any case, Cakewalk curve for normalized (0. to 1.) values works great for all controls, so for faders, knobs and encoders. That I have realized after trying to control REAPER by encoder (tried direct value  and "fader" curve, with different step sizes, nothing was convenient).


  15. On 9/20/2020 at 6:07 PM, devonaire45 said:

    NORTON IS REPORTING AZLOW.COM AS A "KNOWN DANGEROUS WEBSITE"

    Lets compare....

    1. who force you to give complete private information? azslow.com - no, norton.com - yes
    2. who is taking money from you? azslow.com - no, norton.com -yes
    3. can you get private information of concrete person which is the owner of the site? azslow.com - yes, norton.com - no

    So, which from these 2 sites is more dangerous?

    Also check the terms and conditions you have agreed when you have installed Norton. They do not promise you anything they report has something to do with reality, they explicitly refuse to take any responsibility for false (positive nor negative) information. They effectively reporting your what they want and ask you to pay for that.

    Note (3): my real e-mail (+address, +name, +telephone) is associated with my domain. Have I EVER got e-mail/post/call from ANY "service" which declared me as "known dangerous"? NO! At the same time when some of our servers/workstations at work is really infected, we get notification within several hours (days at most). 

    -------

    Since years I am periodically "reported"... sometimes the website, sometimes particular versions of my software, etc. Once I get throw ridiculous procedure to whitelist my staff (complete personal information is required to register on each service, then one or more e-mails, putting special files to the website, etc...), they just whitelist me. No explanation why it was blacklisted, no apologize, sometimes not even simple notification that has happened... So I no longer waste my time doing this.

     


  16. Most DAWs are "supported" by simulation of some Mackie controls. That also works in Cakewalk.

    Is that really useful in practice? Transport works, volume can be controlled by faders (unlike Mackie there are not touch sensitive nor motorized, but still), pan by knobs and sometimes solo/mute/rec arm by buttons (on devices which have sufficient number of buttons). But in all cases, that is far from real Mackie functionality.

    Also note that Mackie has display, while most "compatible" devices with keyboards do not have any indication (LEDs under some buttons at most).

    So the only more or less convenient solution should be device+DAW specific. F.e. there should be on-screen display to show current device layout, commands/parameters should be adopted for particular device and user preferences. Is that possible? Sure. Cakewalk own ACT MIDI provides that for any controller with under 8+8+9 (8 knobs, 8 faders, 9 buttons) controls. Just without feedback on the controller. AZ Controller does the same, but for any controller and with feedback. Both need like an hour of reading the documentation and initial configuration.

    The fact is... the number of people which are ready to invest one hour into configuring the controller is almost zero. I mean people CLAIM they need controller, but in practice they do not (need/want). If "ready to use" solution exist, people do not complain. Controllers producers know that, so they simply write "we are compatible with these DAWs", without really doing anything. One-two users will complain the solution is terrible in practice, but all other simply never use that functionality, except may be transport buttons and occasionally changing tracks volume (VST controlling is different topic).


  17. 4 hours ago, fossile said:

    in the docs, it looks like the parameter index number is based on MAKELONG which creates the index # based on 2 factors... 

    it is mentioned for MIX_PARAM_FX_PARAM, to specify FX and parameter (in dwParamNum). MIX_PARAM_FX does not mention MAKELONG, just "fx#". So the question is what it should be to work with the whole rack instead of particular FX.


  18. I remember nice video how blind musician was recording/mixing using computer keyboard (Sonar 8). There is no much difference in transport or other buttons, but changing continuous parameters with keyboard is not fun.

    That leaves mouse as the only usable computer device for most parameters.  And it is rather bad device for "shortcuts" like operations (I have written special plug-in to use it that way, f.e. press button+turn the wheel, not good in practice).

    I still prefer turn physical knob to change volume of my interface over mouse or keyboard buttons, I mean outside DAW. And so turning knob or moving slider feels like the "right" way.


  19. Saving changes after surface preset selection/modification is the only general surface bug and it exist in current release only. Mentioned hotfix solve it for other, workaround is simple to apply as well. Till you give more details, problems are triggered by your particular setup or (more likely) there is no problems at all (you just expect thinks are working not the way they are really working). F.e. presets (as well as mappings) are saved/loaded or not, there is no "soft of" behavior. When you are "switching between presets" in ACT MIDI, normally nothing changes visually since most parameters in most presets are the same. But what you see as "labels" (parameter labels, control labels are fixed by preset) depends from current context and preset parameters. The context changes all the time (when you click different parts in Cakewalk interface), a label is blank in case the parameter in question does not exist.

    I repeat, control surfaces installation is a complex process, especially with DIY oriented devices like Axiom or BCF.  Everything is logical but far from intuitive. Transport buttons (and some other controls) in Cakewalk Generic Surface can be defined more or less "by intuition", but anything else requires at least an hour reading the documentation (for device and surface plug-in in question).

    Bandlab Assist is rather strange program... to revert you will need uninstall Cakewalk in Windows (but better not remove "shared" staff, you will be asked what to do with it) and then install current release with Assist.


  20. 6 hours ago, Steve Veach said:

    I'm noticing ACT still seems very buggy and has been for years but I would have hoped it was more stable now. It's not my controller because ACT behaves the same way with my M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard and my Behringer BCF2000 motorized controller.

    1. First of all, it doesn't save the settings properly and then never reloads them when I restart Cakewalk. Very frustrating but I see there is some type of work-around mentioned earlier. I haven't tried that yet.
    2. Even after I set all the controllers for console view, and leave Cakewalk open but walk away or make any other changes, like even just change the focus of the controllers (like click on a VST synth) the controls stop working when I go back to the console (sliders and rotary knows) unless I spin or slide them again to have Cakewalk recognize them. This makes the Act controller useless for me. I don't know what other people have experienced.
    3. Although I've seen several YouTube videos (older ones) that should how ACT is supposed to work when setting controllers (for example, after you set a control and turn off the Learn Mode, a dialog box is supposed to pop up letting you know how many controls were changed. I never get this pop up dialog box.

    Does anyone actually have Cakewalk by Bandlab working perfectly with their controller using ACT? I would like to know if it's just me or something wrong with my settings but I can't imagine what.

    Thanks.

    Computers still seems very buggy, but I would have hoped they are more stable now 😃

    Now serious... "ACT" means different things: (a) it is general API to be used for writing controller plug-ins for Cakewalk, (b) sometimes people reference "Cakewalk ACT MIDI" plug-in as "ACT" and (c) (since related buttons was labeled as such) as a part of API related to VST plug-ins steering.

    Note there are other MIDI (and sometimes controlling) related features in Cakewalk, which are NOT ACT: "Remote control" for Cakewalk related parameters, MIDI "shortcuts" and (direct) MIDI control for plug-ins. All these features can fight for the controller and the result can be rather confusing when you mix them, at least when you mix them without careful planing. 

    All incarnations of "ACT" are in fact working well (for years). Correct initial setup is a must and there can be some bugs (as in all programs).

    The issue number (1) exists in one single release of Cakewalk. Settings saving was properly (in case of one controller) working before and we all hope will proper work in all following versions. For this single version use mentioned workaround, for most users (which do not change controlling plug-in presets all the time) that is one time several clicks operation.

    From (2) and (3) I guess you incorrectly interpret general ACT approach: you first explain controlling plug-in how to work with your device and then assign what controlling plug-in should do with changes sent by your controller. Sometimes both are pre-defined (Mackie), sometimes are defined in parallel (Generic Control Surface) and sometimes truly independent (ACT MIDI and AZ Controller).

    Sorry, but proper setup and understanding what is going on is required for your controllers: Behringer and M-Audio have not prepared "plug&play" solutions for Cakewalk. I recommend to start with one device and one surface plug-in of your choice, read corresponding documentation (ACT MIDI and Generic Surface have detailed documentation in PDF reference guide, my site explain AZ Controller) and not mix ACT with other approaches, at least not for the same physical control (f.e. do not use the same knob for "Remote control"/MIDI Learn and ACT plug-ins).

    F.e. for (3), you will need to "learn"  some physical controls (in surface plug-in), then enable "ACT" (as VST Dynamic Mapping) for these controls and then "ACT Learn" corresponding logical controls in particular VST. When done properly, you will get "ACT Learning" confirmation dialog (except with some VSTs/parameters, for these you will need to use other assigning approaches, f.e. AZ ACT Fix utility).

     

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