Carl Ewing

On 11/16/2023 at 7:34 AM, MusicMan said:

For me I can see why they might not like it, but I don't think they completely take into account the full picture. I like throwing in some orchestral sounds into other genres and I'm not a composer that works in the orchestral space, so at this stage there is zero chance of me forking out $500+ on a lot of those libraries. By making the pricing more accessible it opens up a new market and new customers that otherwise wouldn't have bought from them. Realistically with Komplete Ultimate, IKM Philharmonik 2 and then some individual libraries that were either free, or heavily discounted, it makes it even harder to justify some of the higher priced libraries, even though for sure they will be better than what I have. Sometimes I like using the orchestral sounds just for fun, not even for a track, so it's more of an indulgence.

These prices from 8DIO and some of the other more discounted libraries make that pure indulgence easier to justify and they get sales they wouldn't have had.

But now I'm really not sure what the best choices would be out of these, as there are a couple of really interesting looking bundles! I tend towards using strings and brass more personally... any recommendations?

Do you have Komplete 14? If so, you should have Kontakt Factory Library 2 which includes an entirely new orchestra library made up of selections from Orchestral Tools libraries (the really expensive ones). It surprised A LOT of composers, since it's a 1000x improvement over the old Kontakt library orchestra. There are some absolutely amazing articulations in that set.

Audio Imperia's "Lite" libraries are also on sale for $80. Limited articulations, but Areia Lite (strings) & Nucleus Lite (orchestra) are pretty great for the price. Actually the full Nucleus library is on sale for $225. It covers the entire orchestra. Walkthrough video. The thing about Audio Imperia libraries is that they are great for hybrid styles - like using orchestra in pop or electronic music or rock. They have a very upfront sound, and 2 mixes, Classical (softer, but still quite full), and "Modern" (more full cinematic / trailer / pop music style).  And they are dirt simple to use.

I think I would go the direction of Audio Imperia based on your description of how you use orchestra. A lot of walkthroughs and reviews of their Nucleus, Aeria, Talos, Jeager, etc. libraries that should immediately show their unique tone. Their solo instrument is also quite good for pop music, as the mixes / recordings are quite forward sounding.

If you want an idea of how forward sounding their libraries are -- for example, their spicatto patches -- here's a comparison of spicattos across 40 different libraries. IMO each Audio Imperia selection (Jeager, Aeria, Nucleus) stands out as the best for more hybrid genre use. Many others have that very warm cinematic tone that disappears in non-soundtrack mixes. But some stay that makes the AI stuff sound overly cold / machine like:

59 minutes ago, husker said:

Same boat.   I think I collect Choirs like @Fleer collects 'verbs.    I was going to pick up Storm Choir this year, but this will certainly give me pause.... 

Ha. Ya, I have a lot of adult choirs, but most of them are either old, or I don't like them. Except 8Dio choirs - which sound gorgeous (especially Insolidus / Silka) but they aren't very flexibile. Was so disappointed in Omnia. It's the main reason I updated my Komplete CE edition.

Voxos was also a huge disappointed, but got it with Musio, so no big loss. Same with being disappointed with East West's choirs via Composer Cloud. Interesting through - was checking out Voxos's childrens choir patches, thought it sounded pretty bland, then opened Genesis to compare and the first note I hit was the most beautiful thing I'd ever heard. Haha. That choir is incredible - also blows Liberis out of the water.

So it'll probably become a battle between Chorus (sat through a couple hours of walkthroughs and love the sound / versatility) & Eternity - one of these will free up a lot of hard drive space after deleting all these other libraries.

Order also cancelled + refund. Went to JRR shop, got it for $85 with GROUP code. So still decent deal. 

And that granular engine is absolutely bonkers. Endless modulation possibilities, and it's set up sooooo much easier than Absynth or Omnisphere. Can do grain / position / randomization modulations in seconds, unlike Absynth which requires a PhD in engineering to get certain envelope modulations to work properly.

37 minutes ago, husker said:

Cool!   Genesis is one of my favorite choirs. 

Same. And just when I was trying to make a decision on AI's Chorus. Will definitely wait and see now. This could be amazing.

Also curious if they'll have crossgrade / loyalty pricing for owners of Genesis.

1 hour ago, dumbquestions said:

Precisely it was intended to be a subjective question, but this is exactly the type of answer I’m looking for so thank you. I currently don’t have the local harddrive space to fit a demo for seventh heaven but if I bought it I would be motivated to make some sacrifices there. At least for right now just trying to get an idea based on mostly subjective opinions of what’s out there. May give CRP a demo though, looks like just 200mb to install. Thought it was more since SHP is a whopping 10gbs. So far Pro-R seems to have the easiest workflow but I could be wrong. I like valhalla for adding color  

I'd agree here - Pro-R has some incredible features - especially with the addition of ducking in the v2 version. It's really an incredible piece of software, like all FabFilter stuff. I would never need another reverb again if Pro-R, with all its features, sounded like Cinematic Rooms. But honestly, those Pro-R features really make it versatile, I just find it takes way too long to get a sound I like out of it. Perhaps it's too transparent / clean, whereas I like grain / color (my second favorite reverb is UADs Lexicon 224 because it's so messy sounding imo)

Picked up all the ones I wanted last week with sub voucher: U2A , SA2RATE2, Masterdesk Pro, Amek 200 Console (already had 9099 from last year), Amek Mastering Comp and XStressor.

I'm now grandfathered into Mix & Master bundle at $149.99 a year, so no brainer to get 6 of their best plugins per year for essentially $25 / each, and get to use everything else in the catalog all year.  (but i forgot, subs suck, right?? hehe) 

2 hours ago, dumbquestions said:

For mostly vocals (as well as instrument vst’s), is pro-r usually preferred more over liquid sonics seventh heaven or one of their verb plugins? Or is it the other way around? Their sale is also coming up and not sure which company to go with. Assuming pro r is more of a one trick pony(?), also not sure of all the difference between bricasti vs algorithmic reverbs but curious what you all use in mixes primarily.

This is a very subjective question. I find Pro-R extremely cold. It has it's uses, but I rarely use it because I find it lifeless / sterile. no matter what the source is.

I love Cinematic Rooms Pro & Seventh Heaven. I think CRP is the best reverb on the market - for pretty much any instrument, and by a wide margin.  But some people feel the same about Pro-R. This is really something that needs to be demo'd in order to make a decision. 

But honestly, Valhalla DSP reverbs are $50 and I'd be entirely happy if these were my only options. But if I had a few hundred to spend on reverbs, my choice would the CRP. Again, totally subjective.

My experience back in early 2022 - i did get support from "Natan" for a Windows problem. Not a solution, but he responded pretty quick and let me know future updates would correct the problem (which they did), although the only thing I occasionally use of the bundle is Vybz & Tape Piano 2 (this v2 version corrected a problem I had). 

7 hours ago, antler said:

Musio 1 is just the 2023 instruments; it won't include next year's. That said, it's still a good deal.

To clarify - it's 2023 and prior - so the entire Cinesamples catalog (Musio versions) including anything released in 2023. It's about 75 libraries in my app (all CineBrass, CineStrings, CineWinds, CinePerc, all pianos, keys, solo instruments, synths, choirs, etc.) 

10 hours ago, GoncaloL said:

Do you miss some of the more advanced capabilities of the kontakt versions of those libraries?

Musio 1 is really appealing to me and i dont think i would miss them, just a hobbyist here, but curious about your opinion

Not so far. I own CineBrass Pro & Core and a few other libraries already, which I use heavily, but I haven't switched to the Musio versions of CineBrass yet. From what I understand it's less mic options, no keyswitching for some libraries & not as much customization, I just haven't compared yet. I don't generally use a lot of keyswitching (and don't really like how CineBrass is set up in Kontakt), and prefer microphone blend mixes, so liking the app so far. Also - they've added keyswitching patches to a few of the libraries. There seems to be keyswitching patches for all the CineOrchestra stuff that I've opened.

There is a Youtube review where the guy actually prefers the simplified versions of the instruments and explains why. Wish I could find that review again, it the one that convinced me to get it as we had a similar work flow (preferring single articulation patches, a lot of library blending, etc.)

6 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

I'm on my phone and I couldn't get the audio files to play on my phone, but the description for Keyboard in Blue sounds irresistible to me. I must hear that.  Piano in Blue is an amazing sounding piano library to my ears. The fact that they referenced that in the name --- my expectations are through the roof. This could be a let down. What do those of you who've heard the demos think? Im getting a coffee and will check it out in several minutes.

I haven't grabbed any of the pianos (I have way too many, and was set on never installing another one unless it was Keyscape or Ravenscroft), but I don't like any of my upright libraries. Anyone recommend any of the Musio pianos? I have not heard much about any of them.

EDIT: I guess I could spend a half hour downloading them all. So lazy.

1 hour ago, fitzroy said:

I was actually hoping that EastWest would have a $9.99/month sale for the composer cloud, perhaps in response to Musio. I would go for that. I don't quite get why they don't do it; as opposed to most mixing/mastering plugins, I'd hate to switch between large orchestral libraries/ecosystems. There would be a strong incentive to stick with a sub for years, making it a win-win. 

I think it's the size. Especially with the addition of Fantasy Orchestra - which is basically an entirely new 120GB orchestra library (including choir) outside of HOOPUS. I have both Musio & CC, but the East West catalog is just absolutely enormous by comparison. $150 already seems insane, considering how much content there is compared to Musio. For data / articulation / mic position comparison, Hollywood Orchestra (OPUS edition) alone is 4 times larger than the entire Musio catalog. 

14 minutes ago, Fleer said:

The only sub worth the effort. 

You can get 1 year of Musio for $90 right now (3 months free).  Or buy the entire Musio catalog for life for $300. Both the Cinesamples & East West subs are insane.

EDIT: Musio is a bit of a beta test though. Finding quite a few bugs, but it's early days.

12 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

Are you sure these were for $45? 

If anyone here has them and wants to share your thoughts, please do. @Carl Ewing you wrote that you own a bunch of 8Dio libraries. Do you own these? And if you do, could you share your thoughts? I'm about to buy them and Steve is also interested in them. I always thought they were a bundling of Deep Solo Strings for some reason, which I own, but today I realized they're completely different and fell in love with their sound after listening to the the demos.

Oh - I don't actually own these so can't comment. Noticed in later comment that you bought them - definitely let us know what you think once you get a chance to play around.

11 hours ago, antler said:

I do remember that was the case from one place I bought from (possibly APD), but not all. But that was a little while ago; they may have changed the way they distribute to their resellers.

Ya - they've allowed me to registered 3rd party purchases in the past - for example, from  Time + Space way back when.  Just had to send them the invoice / purchase info. 

15 hours ago, Nick Blanc said:

Edit 2: without disclosing too much info and some assurance from them, I'm buying now.

That's a great hint. Going to pick it up now too.

6 minutes ago, artturner said:

Has anyone seen upgrade pricing from Majestica Standard/2.0? 

 

My upgrade price from Majestica 2.0 is $40. 

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

I've heard a lot of great things about the Tina Guo libraries and I almost certainly would buy those IF they were recorded dry. Consequently, the dry solo library that I'm hoping goes on sale is Sonixinema's Contemporary Soloist Cello. It sounds beautiful and just what I'm looking for in the demos. The one think I'd love to hear about his how playable the library is. That is, does it feature really intuitive KONTAKT scripting or not, as that's a big factor for me too. This is the library. I'd love to hear feedback from anyone who owns it (sorry, influencers not included):  

https://sonixinema.com/collections/strings/products/contemporary-soloist-cello

Ya - Tina Guo is definitely quite processed, in that that dark / warm Zimmer tone. I've actually paired it with LASS 1st chair to give it some sharpness, but only in larger pieces where you can't tell it's paired - not really possible in quartet or strictly solo work.

I'd definitely keep close eye on Performance Samples the next 6 months - looks like 2 different solo libraries coming out, and I think Vista may have a much dryer tone than Pacific. which I assume will be mix-matched with the ensembles which are quite warm.

19 hours ago, Nick Blanc said:

You beat me to it (of course). This sounds absolutely insane in a good way. Just up my alley. I'm buying this. And I'll be on the lookout for BF deals on the rest of the FABRIK series.

Intro offer ends November 23rd. I have a feeling they'll then create a Fabrik bundle for BF. They did a few bundle deals last year (ARK series 50% off, Creative series, etc.) last year. I'm going to gamble and wait for that bundle before buying individual instruments.

14 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

Wow, that does sound is beautiful. I've seen a lot of posts praising Performance Samples. Do they sell the solo cello alone? I've been looking for a dry solo cello with great tone and great scripting. I've been looking at Sonixenima mostly. As they have a cello library -- actually two-- that just sound gorgeous to my ears. I know people have recommended the Embertone Blakus one, but I simply don't love the tone of the cello.  And getting back to my point about pros vs hobbyists, I want a library that features great, intuitive scripting that I can play/record once not have to screw with midi editing.

It seems these recent demos are just for Vista II, but no indication they will be sold separately. Pacific Strings (also Performance Samples) has a solo expansion coming as well, but I don't believe there are demos yet, or indications if it will be sold separately. But I love Pacific Strings ensemble, and hoping the solo strings have a similar tone. 

I'm also not a fan of Blakus. I am a fan of Cinesamples Tina Guo Acoustic Cello Legato - it's one of the only virtual solo cellos I've ever liked.  But it is very limited in what you can do with it - just two articulations (legato & sustain).  Definitely more for live performance - especially slow melodies - than programming.  I think you can test it out with the free Musio trial. This would also allow you to try CineStrings Solo Cello, which is also supposed to be excellent (have not tried). 

Virhamonic's Bohemian Cello is considered one of the best - tone wise and playability. May want to check that out. I have not tried it yet though.

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

 (okay, it's Performance Samples)

Speaking of Performance Samples - noticed someone on VI-Control posted this Legato demo for the upcoming Vista II. Was posted yesterday:

I f******* love this developer. I love how they take customers through the entire development process. And have never regretted a single purchase. Just gorgeous libraries. And that's got to be the best damn legato (and possibly solo cello tone) I've ever heard in a sample library to date. By a mile.

11 hours ago, jngnz said:

Nope. It’s bad. Like, atrociously bad. There isn’t a single instrument or sound in there I had any use for.

Generally, my experience with the quality of 8Dio libraries has been extremely disappointing. I figured out they use the included phrases in their demos a LOT. So be prepared for the actually playable instrument to sound nothing at all like the demos for basically all of their libraries. Certainly the ones I got. It's borderline fraud.

They make some exceptional libraries (eg. percussion, choirs, solo vox, orchestra, hybrid, world), that are used in very high end productions.

Perhaps stop buying the $5 phrase libraries thinking they'll auto-write you a masterpiece? lol. 

If you can't make incredible music with their products than it ain't the product's fault. It's like blaming the joystick.  

12 hours ago, El Diablo said:

At $169.00 FabFilter Pro-Q 3 is starting to sound like a better option than Soothe 2.  But then... does it have real time changes?

Unfortunately no. However, I think Pro-Q 3 has so many features that are beneficial across the board that it would be worth having regardless.  With something like Sooth 2 being an addition to cover specific use cases.

I think the question is, how often would you need the specialized features of S2?

Versus the almost-every-single-situation features of Pro-Q 3.

Interesting though - if Pro-Q 4 introduces some of these AI tracking features of these other plugins they are going to obliterate the market. I'm sure they are looking at them for subsequent updates - and Pro-Q 3 has already been out for about 5 years.

2 hours ago, El Diablo said:

The trick is using vocal spectrum for ducking instead of using a dynamic EQ bell curve.  Can another plugin do that?

^^ This is what you want to do.

You don't need a specialized plugin like Soothe to do it. Just any EQ that has a "match" function and sidechain - and there are plenty on the market. The great thing about the above video's technique is that, once you have the EQ signature, you can apply it to reverb, eq, delay, distortion, compression...anything. Much more useful. 

It is a faster process, but an EQ with dynamics (eg. Pro Q 3) works just fine. Harshness & resonant frequencies are not difficult to tame.  Been done for a 100 years without automated wizardry. But ya, if you have $200 lying around, it does save time. But relying on it, without understanding how to do it without the plugin is a definite handicap in the "learn how to mix" long run.

2 hours ago, audioschmaudio said:

You'll probably find people you respect for every DAW. Hans Zimmer uses Cubase, for example.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go through the pain of switching to a new DAW and having to un- and realearn everything.
Out of curiosity: Which DAW are you currently using?

The list is extensive when it comes to Hollywood scoring: Hans Zimmer, Ludwig Goransson, Benjamin Wallfisch, Junkie XL, Alan Silverstri, etc. So everything from Avengers to Bladerunner to Mad Max to Top Gun to Tenet were composed in Cubase. There's a good reason for that - particularly composers with strong hybrid styles that use enormous templates. Check JXL's Youtube videos for how his templates and macros / touchscreens are setup for stuff like Wonder Woman, Mad Max, Alita Battle Angel (similar process to Zimmer). 

IMO Cubase is the most sophisticated / versatile DAW on the market. But it has an enormous learning curve to make use of it's deeper features (eg. logical editor, midi features, visibility macros, etc.). Lots of great tutorials around though.