JnTuneTech

I find that Cakewalk has a fine system of renaming notes on the PRV, and in fact MIDI patch & bank naming as well, in the instrument definitions (.ins) format implementation. -Unfortunately, I don't see any tools designed to help with creating or modifying them easily. That would really help IMHO. I do also long for easier customization of the color or entire theme of the notes in PRV. That is almost necessary if you want to use some of the custom note names properly. Although the plain names on white in the piano roll left hand side works OK, but I hardly ever see the note names on note display like some of the screen shots referred to here, so maybe it's not that common anywhere, yet. Of course, it must be pointed out that there will always be as many style & design wants as there are users, it is the nature of us all to see things uniquely. -And sometimes, especially regarding MIDI implementation & compatibility concerns, there are multiple methods needed to work with MIDI for each person, when we have different apps. I still struggle with how many MIDI controllable apps are all different with standards, some want just note numbers, others decide key range starts from middle C, others don't, it's always a challenge, -PRV adjustments all the time! -I wonder if any of the MIDI 2.0 standard will help with any of that?

@Dan Patterson It all seems to work nominally on my system, when trying to replicate this. -In my understanding, and having used MIDI Echo Delay a few times long ago, applying that plugin in that manner actually modifies the original MIDI in the track you have selected, so perhaps there are other parts of the project playing back as well when you test after applying? I know the "Audition" function only plays the track you have selected. And, be sure you haven't accidentally processed it twice I guess? You might simply try adding the MIDI Echo Delay plugin to the FX bin of the base MIDI track (before processing), and try using it that way as a test. Then, when you are playing it, you can look at whether anything else might be interfering as well. -Just some suggestions.

I guess that setting would help if you were in a rush just wanting to hit record on a new MIDI track, some of the time anyway. In my workflow, I often want to set the track output channel filter to something different at the beginning anyway, as it doesn't always match the controller channel I am also setting the input filter for. The MIDI track filter/conversion selectors in Cakewalk have always been important to me, as I tend to import a lot of MIDI files, and send them out to a GM compatible multi-timbral VSTi (like TTS-1) for previewing them, etc. But to repeat a bit of my earlier post, learning to turn the filter to "none" can be important. Try recording, and playing back commands from a Mackie compatible controller, for instance, with a specific MIDI channel set on in and/or out of your track, and you will wonder where some of that data went!

@scook -Ah yes, thanks, I was speaking (typing) a bit too soon, more coffee needed, etc. I actually was thinking about the channel info on MIDI notes in the Event view, but somehow conflated that with clip properties... Thanks!

Thanks - that's a bit I had not thought about in some time, but I vaguely remember running into that a few times when bringing external MIDI parts in to a project. -And I'm guessing that if one decides to use the MIDI clip channel assignment, instead of the track routing, you could always modify the clip assignment from within the Event List? -Never tried that one. The one thing I have run into, is when using a controller that outputs on multiple MIDI channels at the same time, you do have to remember to set that track filter to "none", or, -so I say now anyway-, the result would be obvious in your track setting! It took me a while to get my head around that for some reason.

@Jaxeed - Routing MIDI to a plugin in Cakewalk basically depends on the options the plugin itself offers. And, it has been changing somewhat as VST2 is replaced by VST3 standards. -That is, when they use the standards... but I digress. -You need to check the documentation on your VST(s) to see what they offer for MIDI control first. Then learn how to enable MIDI input on the VST plugin - it used to need to be manually enabled for VST2 instruments, from the top bar of the VST window. And again, this is specific to each plugin type & format. So, once MIDI input is enabled on the plugin, and within the VST itself if necessary, you will see the MIDI as a source in the MIDI track output selection of a MIDI track in Cakewalk. I use it all the time with Kontakt, for instance, and for them, each instrument loaded can have its own channel, and of course each instrument has its own MIDI mapping, so it can take some getting familiar with. Again, all channel capability is determined by the plugin, not Cakewalk. One problem I had recently, was using MIDI bank/Patch changes with VSTs, once they changed to VST3. For instance, I used to keep a VST2 instance of TH-U around, so I could just add a patch change when playing live (there are now other methods available), and when they went to VST3, that broke. Sometimes it takes a while to get my head around these things too, figuring out MIDI routing is tough because Cakewalk can't know the methods offered by your plugins, and sometimes even the method of getting your VST to listen to MIDI at all can be confusing. -Hang in there, read up on your plugins!

Wow, thanks for the screenshot - looks like a different model than what I use, but the same manufacturer. -Just a few notes also wanted to mention: Cakewalk doesn't address DMX directly, in fact MIDI itself is not convertible as such. That is why, when you buy a USB to DMX interface, you will need an appropriate program of some kind to access it. That is possible in Cakewalk with something like the DMXIS VST plugin, however that one is rather limited in scope, in my experiences with it. I also recall not liking to use the plugin, because by default, when the DMXIS plugin loses contact with the USB, the lights all go to zero (off). So, every time I closed a Cakewalk project to open another one (I generally put one song per project together for live events, and choose on the fly), the lights would all zero out. -Perhaps DMXIS has changed this - I would check the DMXIS forum - they used to be fairly good at answering questions, similar to the great folks here. And again, in general, to use a DMX adapter, you will have to have some kind of controller. You mentioned some other visualization type of app I think, as what you may want to be using. You will in any case need something, and that something has to be compatible with (so it will recognize) the USB adapter you choose first. Then, many such apps are MIDI controllable - and if so, that is where you would possibly get to add MIDI control tracking from within Cakewalk. This forum is aimed mostly at Cakewalk - so you may only get advice on that particular part of the solution here! -I'm sure whatever happens, it will be an interesting adventure, I really love being able to play a show from within Cakewalk, and have all of the sound, lights, & hazers, etc. synced up when I just hit play. -Cheers!

I had a post about this somewhere on the old forums, seems like! Anyway, I used to play live with Cakewalk as my backing band (proudly programmed/recorded mostly also by myself), and I eventually added lights & DMX controls to the live projects, also tried using the DMXIS VST plugin. -I dumped the plugin in favor of using the standalone DMXIS control app and having Cakewalk MIDI tracks control that for the live lighting control. My method is a bit time consuming to both initially set up, and even explain, but basically, I use the DMXIS by Entech USB to DMX interface (I think they still make them) as my DMX output device. (-That is also how I got the bundled DMXIS app & license, etc.) -I also use a free app on Windows called LoopMIDI - this allows one to route MIDI from one Windows app to another (by creating virtual MIDI ports). So, long story short, you create a MIDI track, or several, in Cakewalk to control the DMXIS app - such as change presets, control individual faders, so you can even control individual fixture DMX features that way. -It gets complicated though, and I made my own custom setups for the whole thing to work, but that even allows me to put automation lanes in Cakewalk that, via creating .ins definitions, show the fixtures/parameters I am automating by name in Cakewalk. I could also match patch changes to DMXIS presets that way too, but it seemed too rigid that way. Anyway, I don't know that my method would be a project for an easy lighting rig setup, but my overall point is that Cakewalk for sound backing and DMXIS for lighting control can work together quite well, at least in my experience. -Everyone has differing approaches to it, naturally, and the one that you like and understand the best is the way to go!

King Burton - I forgot to say, I also strongly suggest you try using the built-in Channel Tools plugin on your track(s) with the panning issue. -First, change the track to stereo interleave (Channel Tools is a stereo plugin), then see if you can insert Channel Tools into the FX bin. From there, if nothing else, the plugin GUI should get you a visual confirmation of the output of the track at the point of that insert, and you should also be able to play with the panning (and more) from there, provided of course it is also routed out to a working stereo bus or output. Provided... some other voodoo isn't at work here! [Bryant: Now there's a Nexus 6 over at the Tyrell Corporation. I want you to go put the machine on it. Deckard: And if the machine doesn't work? (Bryant - glassy-eyed, blank)] - That's me now!

Yes - well, glad you found it, to be sure. -One thing about it - in my tests, both past and present, if you have it turned on in a project, and then save that project, you can't get back to the same mix without it always on ever again. -Unless I am missing something with how it works. -Every mix I try with it, once I turn it on, and say pan something all the way to one side, I cannot get back and ever pan the track again without Offset mode engaged! (yes, I know you are getting the problem with it on, not the reverse). -Still sounds like a stereo stream routing problem to me though anyway, I have to say. Be careful, in any case. I remember in one old project, I had to completely re-create the tracks with the stuck pans & fades, and then re-import the audio (which is almost impossible with multiple edits and/or envelopes, etc.). -Maybe a re-format will help, maybe not. It may be a per-project setting that is wonky, and in that case, ouch. -You still should try a clean new blank project, and see if the problem persists. -My 2 cents anyway. I sure understand your pain though!

One of the deciding factors for me with DAW software, pretty much from when I started as a (typically broke) musician, migrating from physical mixers and reels and cassettes of tape (I still have one of the old Teac 144 PortaStudio units, in storage now), was not just affordability, but flexibility. For many years, that which became PT was Mac only, and required dedicated hardware, if I remember correctly. As it happened for me, I waited things out until PCs became capable and popular enough to start offering (and attracting development of) serious AV production capabilities. Yes, they also had dedicated hardware requirements on many AV systems integrations, but as we still see today, there were far more options allowed for PC integration & programming, than there were for Mac. It is just a fact, and I know the arguments about that will go on forever, but it is a design, support, and of course marketing choice for the involved IP holders. (-In my day job, I work on Macs & PCs as needed, I just want things to work - regardless, -anyway, enough about that!). I actually started using Cakewalk software when I was toying with different sound cards & music software for my PC, and there happened to be a bundled Sonar edition with a SoundBlaster card, which had some great internal MIDI playback that interested me at the time. I took a liking to the staff view of MIDI that Cakewalk had in Sonar, and off I went. (As it is today, I still love to have the staff view window for some of my projects with MIDI floated independently so I can play to it live if needed. -Not that I can read very well , but it still is a great visual cueing tool for performing live with backing tracks sometimes.) Of course hardware still makes huge differences, especially I/O and DAC quality, but on the software end, I still find huge differences in flexibility and downright choice, not mention affordability, between DAWs & the associated environment they support. PT for me is still restrictive, and I know they have reasons, -quality control always being one of the original (and often Mac-based philosophy/requirements) reasons behind this, but apps developed like Cakewalk have always appealed to me much more than PT - simply because they expand & try to improve more often than not, and allow for so many possibilities (even if sometimes those possibilities result in failure) and as a musician first, and an engineer second, that really works for me with Cakewalk. As for the choice of interface design, I am not so impressed with the look of PT myself, but that is just a personal preference. And the information in the previous posts will show that Cakewalk is very flexible there too, comparison-wise. I also agree with those who like to use a physical control surface, at least for faders & panning, as sometimes no matter how good the screen design is, you just can't use all your true human interface devices (you know, fingers, feet, what have you - when I see the computer term HID, I always chuckle) to control a running mix for instance. Cakewalk seems to work with that quite well, and I didn't have to buy some highly-priced AVID gear to do it easily. (It does take some fiddling though!) And yes, performance - Cakewalk has always performed quite well, at least when I wasn't trying something I knew to be experimental (but at least I can when I want to!), even on some cheaper systems & hardware interfaces. Those choices can be daunting though, and if you don't want to go through as many pitfalls, then yes, get a Mac & PT (doggone, I thought i might have been done with that subject - sorry!). That again is wide open to personal preference. -One thing I am still working on - understanding all the technical stuff with audio conversion - file conversion in particular. Cakewalk still has their own dither options for exporting, and I have been trying to listen to those. -Mainly, I get put off by successive bounce quality notes, I don't envy the idea of something akin to tape loss (even though we buy tons of plugins now to re-enact just that!). -I also understand now from the post above, that Cakewalk has a good upsampling engine, and since I work primarily in 48K 24, maybe that helps with the multitude of instances where I use software primarily programmed for 44.1 environments? In another post I did here recently, I mentioned this: One odd thing - I recently noticed there was a slight, but important difference to me, in the stereo field and some of the EQ, when I exported a few parts I had created using Kontakt drums directly in Cakewalk, on my particular system. -So, since I have the option of recording directly to USB from the output of my playback on my audio interface (RME UFX), I just recorded exactly what I was hearing that way - and integrated that back into my mix! Took some work, but I got the sound I wanted. And that, of course, is what it really is all about - right? That about sums it up for me on using any choice of musical instrument or DAW, - though of course it is always highly weighted by financial concerns. I am still trying to justify buying one or two of the Rickenbacker classic guitars I somehow think I still want...

Well, the screen caps provided did help me see something you might look into on your system. I have been running some tests, and while I can't get the exact behavior you describe - it gets scarily close. I will explain a bit later. For now, I suggest you take that same misbehaving project from the screenshot you provided, and save a backup of it as is first. Then with one version or another (your choice!) open it again, and turn off Offset Mode. -I can see from the screenshot that it is on in that screenshot example project. -Then try playing around with the pan on the mono track(s) that won't pan again, try also switching Offset Mode on & off, testing, and let us know your results. So, I have had some past experiences with Offset Mode in Sonar that I had purposely forgot about. I hadn't used it recently, or at all since CbB. Yesterday, after the discussions here above, I happened to be watching a video about various Cakewalk tips, and that particular tool came up. Then I remembered some of the gotchas I experienced using it myself, and decided to re-examine the sceeenshots above. And, holy split, yes, it was on in that screenshot. Now, I have tested a few projects on my current CbB implementation to try and repeat what is described. And while I can't get exactly that, I do get some unsettling results. Maybe some of the Cakewalk Pros here can help explain why some of the results I got happen? For instance: If I load a new "Basic" project template in CbB (current version), import a mono audio clip into the Audio track, and pan it, everything is fine. Works like you expect. However, though I could no longer find the shortcut listed in the current CbB documentation, I tried what I recall from the past, which is pressing the "o" key, while I was in track & console view. Viola, I hear my control surface faders slide, and onscreen the fader & pan values all go to zero. -Plus, there is now the "+" and "%" items in the console track display, which I recall painfully, means we are now in Offset Mode. -I panned the audio track full left, playback confirmed the change audibly and in the meters. -Then, I turned off Offset Mode (pressed "o" once again), and the display & my control surface all went back to my previous settings for pan & volume. -However - When I played the track, the audio only came out of the left, audibly and in the meters, and did so regardless of what I did with the pan knob. -So, it was very similar to what the OP here is describing. Backwards, but close, as the problem occurs with Offset Mode turned off after being on for me. -No can pan any more. So, it gets more confusing in my research: So far, in my search of the current CbB documentation, I couldn't find Offset Mode easily. The one passage I found seemed to imply it is only applicable for automation - when using envelopes. But hey, I am able to toggle it on and off regardless of any automation being present in the project. But, -but- ... if I try the keyboard shortcut with a project created & saved in say, X1 days, lo and behold, the keyboard shortcut no longer works. (Side note, I think I got into the mess I made of a project once long ago, by accidentally pressing the "o" key, then trying to reset the mix levels visually, and so on. [Reminds me of the dialogue in Yellow Submarine between the Old Fred & Ringo characters - "Whatever you do - don't press the red button! -What? This button?? (as he presses it)"...] -OK, again I digress. Anyway, do be careful trying this stuff at home kids.. Anyway, what is with this tool? It does currently have a place on the toolbar Mix Module in CbB, and it also works for me to toggle it on & off regardless of any automation present. And there is a warning in the documentation about the adverse effects possibilities - which BTW sound very close to what the OP here is experiencing. Could our OP here have an older project version that causes this odd behavior in conjunction with Offset Mode? -Just wondering, maybe this info can help. -One other suggestion - load up a new basic project, find and import a mono audio file, and try the panning in a clean project, see if that still exhibits the same problem on your system. -Also, do be careful with using Offset Mode in an important project. -My suggestions anyway!

-I am by no means a master code writer, as there are those who can master a text file compilation task such as these .ins files with ease, and setting these up can be a real time suck (which pays off later though) for us normal people, but one thing I am familiar with - when using basic notepad in Windows, you have to change the "save as {file) type" selection box in notepad to "all files", after which you just literally add the .ins to the file name, and save. -Or, take the normal text file version you may have saved instead, and providing you turned on viewing common file type extensions in Windows File Explorer settings, manually rename the extension from .txt to .ins - and say "OK"... etc. MIDI drum maps are similar, but different, and also often time sucking beasts to set up initially. In MIDI, which the .ins files we are discussing relate to, there are notes, patches, and banks. You will find that instrument definitions use the same structure, so for instance, if you have more than 127 patches, they need to be spread into two or more banks (of 127 max). -For fun - many old devices had different "banks" structures for their local storage, mostly because buttons were expensive, and MIDI hadn't become a big standard yet! I think the Prophet 5 used banks of 8, for instance. -But I digress. Learn the structure of the ,ins file, and you will see how it all makes sense, and you can add more than 127 programs to a definition using banks. I hope that helps!

I have recently been using my Melodyne essentials v5 in Cakewalk, and have used that method for extracting timing, off & on for many years now. -If I remember correctly, Celemony allowed me to upgrade the free Sonar bundle license I was using, to my current "essentials" version, somewhere back when Melodyne went to v5x. Probably not likely that they still offer the same deal nowadays with the old codes, but it might be worth a try. -I recently ran into an issue with the licensing on that plugin & app (it has a standalone option), which was annoying, -as are all these apps that tie license validation to online connections and machine or other system ID methods, but I digress... I contacted Celemony support with my license code & info about using it in Cakewalk. Anyway, Celemony support was helpful, if you have a valid license code of some kind. Then, yes, with Melodyne essentials (or better) installed & activated (takes a few steps there too...) - the method I prefer, is to import the tempo audio source into a (temporary) track, at the starting position (bar, beat, what have you) that you want the tempo mapping to start, click to select the audio file, and then just use the Cakewalk Track View menu - Region FX - Melodyne-VST3 - Create Region FX. Melodyne will work a bit, and then usually present in a MultiDock window - which I know all too well is where any licensing issue will present itself, BTW... Anyway, from there, it can be helpful to play back some of your (temporary) tempo audio track, and watch the Melodyne plugin GUI, as that tells you what tempo it thinks is actually there (sometimes the results can be different than what you expect), and if you agree , go back and select the audio file once more in track view, then from that same menu mentioned before, use the "Apply Region Tempo" option. -This puts the tempo mapping Melodyne derived, into your Cakewalk project MIDI - Tempo map. It probably works perfectly if you have a click-only tempo source, -but I always love to abuse, & often confuse, Melodyne, by supplying a full combo mix source - and to its credit, it has an adaptive mode that can usually get the basic timing from drum-heavy mixed tracks quite well! It trips up a lot though when you have alternating sections without any strong rhythm elements, of course, and during playback you will see the tempo values start going berzerk (plus you get a nice bunch of sporadic curve events in the new Cakewalk Tempo Track view to boot), but sometimes you can still un-mangle the bad sections manually afterwards, if you have the patience. -Love that new tempo track view, and the curves, node editing options, etc. Well again, I digress, but you still may be able to use the tempo mapping - via Melodyne option in Cakewalk fairly cheaply, I think even the basic license is relatively cheap, and of course then you can also use the ever popular audio mangling options it also offers, if you like that type of thing then as well. -Ah yes, another plugin though - right?

Indeed - I have one of the older 8 channel Presonus Firestudio Project, works fine. -Sorry that these answers have not been hitting the mark so far. -And, I guess what bitflipper suggested about posting a test project might be a bit tough, but sometimes reproducing these things to analyze them can only be done "hands on". I have tried to reproduce what you are experiencing, on a few projects, but not getting that error. -Hang in there! Lots of good folks check in here, give it some time.

Just a thought - If it is not an issue with any other mono track, then perhaps the input to the track is one of those items that behaves oddly when used on a mono track? I have had that happen a few times in the past, on a stereo audio device channel input going (live input monitoring) to a mono track. -Does any other mono track you have also get this problem? Mono tracks sent to stereo outputs should indeed pan simply using the panning rule as you say. It is confusing to diagnose from afar. Interesting that - In your screen cap the source for the Vox melo L seems to be an ASIO Presonus - don't know if that was a stereo pair or single channel input, - even so, it does look as though the wave display shows only a mono track, and it's already recorded. You did name the track L (for left I assume), and only panning far left works - very interesting... Not sure what to say, if all the routing is typical, the pan should not result in just a volume change, as you say. Only trying to pan a stereo track with left only material should get that result, normally. Hmm, the devil is usually in the details!

Stereo Panning is dealt with differently in different apps, and even the electronics they emulate. I may be wrong, but by default I think CbB stereo audio track panning does just actually reduce relative volume levels of the stereo pair, rather than what you may be looking for (OP described as "0 center"). I have used several methods to enhance panning of a stereo source. If for instance the VST instrument I am using offers it's own panning controls, that may work differently, and may even be automatable. Otherwise, there are many plugins - they usually come under that category of spatial enhancement - and can offer items such as "width" and phase manipulation which are all part of what could be called stereo panning. If I only need the stereo material panned full left or right, for instance, I use the Panipulator module in the Cakewalk ProChannel, turn on mono (summing), and then pan to the desired location. That of course removes the stereo you may want to keep some of. The initial stereo spatial (& delay) fx plugin I have used, -as part of what was Sonar for some time now in fact, is Channel Tools. It will allow you to choose volume, width, and placement of each stream (i.e. L & R) of stereo audio material, as well as other items. There are also some free VST FX plugins out there that do similar things. -Maybe that is what you are looking for? P.S. If you have a stereo file with placement issues, etc., the Channel Tools plugin can also help you analyze the state of the stereo stream you are working on, to better figure out what to do with that.

This topic can apply to a lot of VSTi production work, and everyone really will mix down the instrument(s) in the sampler playback according to personal preferences. But I did also have some of the same thought process, regarding overhead, room, and even bleed sounds that these types of samplers offer - as in how do you decide where to "place" all that in your mixdown stems, if you indeed do that type of thing? For me, with Kontakt Drum series kits, it can be hard to decide, and sometimes even find the "additional" mix items that aren't given a direct fader in the inline mixer section. And, using some of the extra sample variations they have buried in the note mappings, it can get real confusing as to what inline fader they actually route to, and I have spent some time using a MIDI source & watching the visual response shown in the audio levels of each hit, for instance, just to find the most direct output from Kontakt itself. Then there's "deconstructing" some of the inline mix settings of the kits, as I often want some of the fx in the inline mix, but not others, for instance. In my experience, it's a mixed bag, as the Kontakt drum kits are mainly aimed at quickly using those built-in mixes, as opposed to single instrument samples. -But it can be done. Lately I have been mixing some of my projects using Kontak drums, and indeed "printing" some of the various parts of the kit to audio stems. As mentioned here by others, it pays to separate the MIDI source to separate instruments or groups, and then output each part and export to file as you find comfortable. I will usually make sure the kit inline mix is sounding reasonably balanced overall, and especially take care to watch the stereo or mono states of both the samples, and the way you see them routed thru the inline mixer - Kontakt does at least include various steps at which you can define the "width" and stereo placement of most samples, and that is especially important on things like the room and overhead output. -Like many samplers, the cymbals & such usually only route through the overheads in the inline mixer, and to make sure you wind up with a sonically cohesive overall sound (if you want that of course), that has to be considered before you "print" your stems. I usually find it comfortable to mix Kontakt drum kits in simple stereo tracking of the primary playback of say, the kick, the snare, and usually for me just the overall kit minus those two, and then a separate tracking for any of the added samples, such as percussion, that may or may not have their own level in the inline mix of the kit. And generally, if I liked the overall inline mix in stereo (including overheads, room mix, bleed, etc.), [-P.S. the dryer the better usually-] then I have some options for changing some balance & mixing post fx to taste going forwards, -as well as of course then also not needing the VSTi to be online during every playback. -Again though, everyone has their preferences & goals, so just try a few methods, listen, and see what works, see where the items you want come out in the playback channels, etc. One odd thing - I recently noticed there was a slight, but important difference to me, in the stereo field and some of the EQ, when I exported a few parts I had created using Kontakt drums directly in Cakewalk, on my particular system. -So, since I have the option of recording directly to USB from the output of my playback on my audio interface (RME UFX), I just recorded exactly what I was hearing that way - and integrated that back into my mix! Took some work, but I got the sound I wanted. And that, of course, is what it really is all about - right?