oqpoil

My top 2:

1. Neo Soul Keys Studio (gospelmusicians):

It's not only a Wurli(200 and 300) vst but Rhodes (MK1, 2, 3, 5 and 7), Clav, CP70 too and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4-45ATZl_8

The vst version may not be in your budget for the moment (115$ actually) but the IPAD version is actually at 11.99$ and 24.95 ordinary

demo of the IPAD version (with review of all presets)

 

2. Native Instrument A200

Less grit and dynamic than Neo Soul Keys Studio but is more smooth/soft (like the very good "worlitzer" from pianobook that you have posted, thanks!)

 

2 hours ago, Zo said:

Cool thinking of grabbing the Gk bass amp or compete my ampeg collection with thev4b , any thougths guyz , no time to try before ....i do know the sound of the ampeg , but not familiar with gk ...

I own: the V4B is more warm, enveloppant(in french😉) and with polished transient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbbC0IwSXE

I don't own: the GK is more in your face and less warm but it can be more tweaked (may be less intuitive and fast than the V4B).

The transient seem to be more draft but with more body in the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeJ-NWbBVA

1 hour ago, Doug Rintoul said:

There is an app called shell2vst that is supposed to do this. Not sure if it still works. Here is a link with instructions:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=406123

I tested shell2vst on FL Studio 20 but it don't work!

Thanks Doug Rintoul!

I test this if it still work.

3 hours ago, heath row said:

There is a way around it, I've seen it in action. But personally I don't and never have had a problem with it the way it is, I prefer not to mess around with things and let them be the way they were meant to be.

Can you explain how to or provide a link for this other way

Peter - IK Multimedia finally reply at KVR  only when the 2.0.4 update was available:
"My answer came right from Erik Norlander.  Sorry if that concerns you but he's most definitely an expert not only on Syntronik but synthesis and has probably forgotten more about it than most of us in this thread know.  He was kind enough to explain further for you so you can understand, @Opil:
With regard to my info about how any true 6dB / 1-pole filter is non-resonant by nature:

This remains true. Resonance is created by negative filter feedback, and it’s impossible to do that with a single pole (6dB filter).

Our M-Type filter does indeed have resonance, even when set to the 6dB slope. How is this possible, given the above? The M-Type filter is a special case, and it’s not really a true 6dB filter. Here’s why:

The M-Type filter is based on the famous Bob Moog Transistor Ladder Filter. It’s called a ladder filter because it uses a cascade of transistors to generate the filter, and each pole of the filter is one “rung” on the ladder. It is 4 poles — 4 rungs — in total, for a 24dB per octave filter.

To get the 6 / 12 / 18 / 24dB responses from this filter, we take taps at the output of each pole, each rung of the ladder. So for the 6dB slope, we take the output of the first rung.

However, the resonance of the filter — the negative feedback — comes from the very end of ladder. This means that no matter what slope you choose for the M-Type filter, the resonance will always be from the complete ladder and therefore 24dB per octave, aka 4-pole.

So our 1-pole / 6dB M-Type filter is really a one-pole / 6dB filter with 4-pole / 24dB of resonance. In that sense, it’s not a true 1-pole / 6dB filter. Well, it is until you turn up the resonance. Then it becomes the special case I described above.

I'm sure a true expert in the field enjoyed your proclamation of "WRONG" though "
 

I have reply to this https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581115&start=720

And my second answer and report bug on the last 2.0.4 update:
And what bothers me is not that someone is more knowledgeable than me about hardware synthesizers but that when i report the "O-type" filter bug to IK Multimedia support on May 11 and they reply on May 27 (after i a ask an update of my ticket) that they can't reproduce while in the same time following the report of this bug on the IK forum on May 11 at 7:41 a.m. "Steve-xyz", with the same explanations could reproduce this bug only 12 hours later as you can see here https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30034
In the same thread on May 16 "ttinker" "after looking at this a little" could reproduce this bug.

On may 28 at 6:16 am when i ask confirmation on kvr forum in this thread and the same day at 9:47 am "Teksonik" could reproduce this bug with the same explanations.

What it concern me is how simple customers can reproduce these bugs in 10 minutes with the same explanations when technical staff can't in a month and a half!
How the Syntronik bug fixing support could not find out that the resonance of a filter does not work in all modes, how the Syntronik bug fixing support could not find out that neither the cut off, nor the resonance nor the filter envelope works on a filter.

But may be you can ask Erik Norlander so that it illuminates the IK support and shows them the difference between a resonance filter that works and no resonance or between a filter envelope that works and an envelope that has no effect when you manipulate its parameters.

What also bothers me is that you come and tell customers on June 17 that they can load multis with confidence after update 203 when this is still not the case with the next update 204 when I clearly demonstrated on Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:23 am in this thread, with screenshots that after update 2.0.3 part of the multis bug was not fixed.

As you could see what I report AGAIN on June 19 is still not set  in this 2.0.4 update when you load the Syntronik 1 multis from the "beat", "groove" and "groove split" folders. Take the first Syntronik 1 multi available in the "Syntronik 1\Groove Split" folder take to Syntronik 2 group buy, "Full Construction Mode" and see the part B and 😄

On Syntronik 1 part B have:
12 dB LPF R-type filter
934 cut off
filter velocity at 3.9
filter enveloppe attack of 370ms
filter enveloppe hold of 310ms
filter enveloppe decay of 884ms
filter enveloppe sustain at the middle
filter enveloppe amount at 2

On Syntronik 2 part B have:
24 dB LPF M-type filter NOT THE SAME filter
20Khz cut off NOT THE SAME
filter velocity at 0 NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe attack of 25ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe hold of 0ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe decay of 206ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe sustain at the minimum NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe amount at 10 NOT THE SAME
i don't need to be an expert for say you that this part ne sonnera pas pareil!

On Syntronik 1 part C have:
Formant filter
961 morph
a good filter resonance at 21, some drive and velocity sensitivity
filter velocity at 3.9
A filter enveloppe with an attack of 394ms
filter enveloppe decay of 6 secondes
...
On Syntronik 2 part C have :
NO FILTER

I don't need to be an expert for say you that this part "ne sonnera pas pareil" in french!

I was forced to alert everyone on kvr and cakewalk by clearly demonstrating with videos and screenshots what was easy to hear and see in 10 minutes.

What also bothers me is that despite the difference in sound level visible on the screenshots I posted on June 19, you come the same day and give me a useless lecture on the functioning of the multis (which I already know) and you say that it is "normal"

And now after having demonstrated that you or the team that had answered that "there was no resonance on any filter and on any slope in Syntronik" did not know their own software since this functionality is available for the M-type filter since Syntronik 1 (some years now) you come back to give me another useless lecture by quoting a synthesis expert on the functioning of hardwares filters while I never spoke about hardware filters. Too nice! Thank you!

Two day after, on June 21 the IK support told me that they have tested and confirmed the bugs. 🐶

About this last update

1- Here you can see a difference on the attack of the sound with a filter LPF "O-type" beetween the same preset loaded in Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 2

e

Yeah, IT'S A BUG......... but in Syntronik 1  😜 i like to play  🥳
I'm sure there is some who sweated a bit when they saw the screenshot with the red arrows  🤣🤣

More seriously

Concerning this last update:
2-Some bugs still there:

You can already see that the sound levels difference are still here like on the without filter or without OSC 2

It seem that the without FX seems to be fixed but not, if you zoom on:

You can see a bump when the key is released => no bump on syntronik 1

And this bump don't occur with the 2.0.2 and 2.0.3 versions like you can see on my old 2.0.3 render with the same preset with the same parameters

3-It's a NEW BUG, it's not a joke this time 😁

Here you can see that there is no bump and the sound level is the same when the OSC 2 and FX are disabled. And like you understand if there is bump with OSC 2 + without FX and no bump when OSC2 and FX are disabled it's because OSC 2 is faulty!

But like you can see on the last audio item of the first screenshot when only OSC2 is disabled there is a sound level difference yet.No need to zoom!

Conclusion:
-the OSC2 is faulty, it's a new bug and FX is faulty too, this bug have not been fixed.

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 1 presets with FX and OSC2 actived

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 1 multis like the "Cold Lead" multi that i have render again with the last 2.0.4 update

It's not obvious but you can see a sound level difference

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 2 multis with Syntronik 1 "parts/presets"

Peter do you think that IK Multimedia need an expert for do what i do, render one or two preset and multi with or without FX, filters ... CHECK!!!

EDIT:  The Syntronik 1 presets O-type filter bug have been finally fixed😩

Now you have the filter resonance working and the filter enveloppe working for the all "O-type" filter when you load Syntronik 1 preset in Syntronik 2.

15 hours ago, abacab said:

Maybe now that all the other issues have (hopefully) been corrected, they will have time to address this. 🙄

i'll go post my findings on the old "IK Syntronik 2 Group Buy!" thread for more consistencies with what i have already reported 😄

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/44228-ik-syntronik-2-group-buy/page/53/#comments

 

This issue was alredy there in 2.0.1 but i have not open ticket for this.

3 hours ago, telecode 101 said:

I that a good thing or bad thing? does it happen in Syntonic 1?

Yes there is already a resonnance on the 6 dB LP, BP and HP M-type filter in Syntronik 1(🤣...sorry, it's not for you i think at what Peter reply)

But if you try to modify the 6 dB resonance of the "Classic type" filter in Syntronik 1 nothing change, it's normal with LP and  BP, nothing change either in Syntronik 2 with Syntronik 1 or Syntronik 2 presets because it's disabled.

In Syntronik 2 you can clearly see what is disabled and what not for Syntronik 1 and 2 presets because the knob is greyed out and you can't move it in the synth panel and in the new Edit panel.

On the Syntronik 2 presets, the resonance of the 6dB LPF "C-type" filter still does not work with this update, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "C-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "O-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "Classic" filter still does not work.

-There is not any 6dB slope for LPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2 for Syntronik 2 presets!

-There is not any HPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 6, 12 and 24 slopes!

-There is not any BPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 12 and 24 slopes!

-There is not any 6dB HPF "O-type" filter slope for the syntronik 1 presets this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 6, 12, 18 and 24 slopes!

-The 6dB HPF "classic" filter resonance is disabled for the syntronik 1 presets this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets)

 

There is more new filter features in Syntronik 2 like the "Peak" mode of the M-type filter and more

The good thing is that you have more possibility now but you are free to use it or not.

The bad thing is that if some Syntronik 2 presets have been programmed by designers with 6 dB resonnance that don't work it will not look like the designer intended.

 

I hope that the faulty 6 dB slope not become greyed out with the next update😜 because i hope to hear one day what designer have programmed with this new preset for example:

Like you can see the designer have adjusted the resonance on 1.5 on the HP "O-Type" filter 6dB slope but we can't hear it because like i reported the resonance of the 6dB HP "O-type" filter still does not work with this update.

And there is two modulation(in the matrix) on the cut off which must be more interesting to listen to with the resonance

If you don't see may be you can hear

Beautiful 6dB filter resonance in Syntronik 2 on the LP, BP and HP of the M-Type filter🥳

10 hours ago, Peter - IK Multimedia said:

Not really, already answered on KVR, please check out the detailed reply to the core issues you mention.

Peter - IK Multimedia reply at KVR:

Quote

A Syntronik Multi does not simply load presets. The Multi saves ALL parameters of the 4 parts. You can modify the presets within the Multi, and the modified version of the preset gets saved in the Multi without affecting the original preset. So a preset loaded in a Multi part can very easily have the same name as a regular preset but still sound radically different. This is normal.

I know that but i don't know if you have understand that this screenshot is a render of the multi "cold lead" loaded in Syntronik 1 compared to the same multi loaded in Syntronik 2

But the difference in sound level is obvious and you can't pretend it's normal

Quote

5-On the Syntronik 2 presets, the resonance of the 6dB LPF "C-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "C-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "O-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "Classic" filter still does not work.

Peter - IK Multimedia reply:

Quote

Beyond Syntronik, a 6dB filter by design has no resonance peak. The Resonance knob will therefore have no effect on any of the modes of any of the filters with a 6dB slope in Syntronik or any other synth.

😱
WRONG

Like you can see here

In Syntronik 2 you have resonance peak and the resonance knob clearly affect the sound if you play with!

Your answer is a little bit worrying from a support that is supposed to solve Syntronik 2 bugs and help the customers  😪

As I said in a previous post these new slope and resonances are part of the new features of Syntronik 2!

I don't know if this answers comes from you or the support but someone missed something and it's not me. 😉

21 hours ago, asprog said:

Old Syntronik Deluxe multis are still buggy: some have not the same sound, some have empty slots...

I confirme

1-Little game of differences, on the multi "Bio Diversity

I did not put the part 3 or part 4 but it's the same on the other parts the filter is disabled in Syntronik 2!
This bug affects all Syntronik 1 multis in the beat, groove and groove split folders.

On the other hand with Syntronik 2 version 2.0.2 when a preset was not loaded correctly by a multi, there was an asterisk before the name of the multi and before the name of the faulty "part" but there is nothing anymore, unless you check with Syntronik 1 you'll realize it more🙃

2-The resonance of the LPF "O-type filter" still doesn't work on Syntronik 1 presets loaded in Syntronik 2.

3-The cut off, resonance and AHDSR envelope of the BPF "O-type filter" still don't work with the Syntronik 1 presets loaded in Syntronik 2.

4-In addition to that, the difference I heard on the "O-type" filter, even with a resonance of 0, between a preset loaded in Syntronik 1 and 2 is confirmed (...by me😄) BUT ON ALL FILTERS

Already with the unmodified preset (first audio item) we can see a difference in level

Same thing on the last 2 audio items, one with an LPF 'M-type' and the other without any filter. => The bug is not only the filter section or enveloppe filter...

On the 2nd audio item, with effects disabled, on the 3rd and 4th with effects disabled and OSC 2 disabled

We can see that Syntronik 2 does not respect the envelope (or envelopes) since there is a 1 beat and 2 step shift to reach the maximum audio level of this sweep!

These 3 bugs affect all Syntronik 1 presets loaded in Syntronik 2, all Syntronik 1 multis loaded in Syntronik 2 and all Syntronik 2 multis containing a Syntronik 1 preset (or part)!

If you want to test, it is more obvious on low notes.

I also made a small render on the multi "Cold Lead" without the effects

So we find the same bug and sound differences !

2 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

 I have Syntronic 2 and didn't know it. Goes to show how much I use this lol. 

So I guess I'm into this for 11 synths to get the equivalent of MAX unless those selections are not in the selection pane.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jacques Boileau said:

Check under the products tab. You may only have Syntronic CS like me:

Don't unistall Syntronik 1

 On 5/12/2022 at 5:11 PM, oqpoil said:

I know why many user reporting that v1 instruments sound different in both version!

It's a huge bug with the filter section and/or filter envelope of Syntronik 2, with some V1 presets but also V2  presets on some of the 22 "classic synths" while everything is fine and the sound is different for the same presets played with Syntronic 1.

ex: Take the "Boomy square" preset of the SH-V:

-Try to modify the filter envelope, cut off, resonance...=> no effect, no filter 🤨 and the sound is so different from the same preset played with Syntronic 1 (it is more obvious in the low notes C0,C1...)

-Try all the possibilities (lpf,bpf...) of the 7 filters, slope/slope and modify the filter envelope, cut off, resonance => sometimes it's the cut off, sometimes the resonance, sometimes both that have no effect, sometimes you just can't choose the slope (the slider stays locked) while it's available in Syntronik 1

-Try to save a project with the "Boomy square" preset of the SH-V (without modifying it), close and reload your project, go to Syntronik 2, already there is an asterisk on the name of the preset, which means that it has been modified, go to the editing panel (the front of the synth) and there from bpf it has changed to lpf🤔

I have seen the same type of problem on SH-V, SAM, Noir, T-03...so far. It always has something to do with the filter section, the envelope I've only seen it once.

So, advice to those who had version 1 don't uninstall it!!! While waiting for it to correct

And those who have only version 2 of Syntronik test the filter and report to IK support because only for the SAM, the presets Syntronik 1> synth bass: Fat Resonant Bass, Feeder, Fingered Bass, Flanged Round Bass = BUG of the filter (I did not test the others)

Don't hesitate to make tons of noise when you contact the support 😜 THE FILTER SECTION IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!

I have tested many things:

-install shv-v1 and shv-v2 on the same directory and define only one path directory in Syntronik 2 => no change
-install only the synth sound and not the Syntronik 2 CS "Sound content" => no change
-re-download the sounds => no change
-i have tested with sampletank 4 => same bug

The bug occur with Syntronik 2 presets too
"Shinjuku Wobble Pad 3" from shv if you choose r-type filter you can't choose between 12 or 24 slopes because the slider stay locked on the 12 slope.

 

 

This bug have been confirmed by two other customers in IKM forum https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30034

6 hours ago, Promidi said:

Try opening up the IK Product Manager and do a refresh. 

The way I have installed all of these is by downloading the zip files of the sound files manually, extract the files and run the exe files from the extracted files' destination folder.  This works every time.  No error messages when loading patches (in SYN2 or ST4)

I trust the IK Product Manager to do the actual activation, but not the installation.

If that doesn't work, you can try your luck with IK support:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/contact-support/sw/

 

6 hours ago, LAGinz said:

Thx. Have tried this though

I have meet this bug too

Even when you run the "Install Syntronik 2 Sound Content.exe" files from the extracted zip you can have trouble with installs, the exe files may be buggy

For definitively solve this you can manually copy the contain of the "Syntronik 2 Sound Content" folder in your Syntronik path library

Do this with all Syner V zip files and all should work fine

Quote

On 12/2/2021 at 9:30 PM, chris.r said:

I have read the whole thread twice and still don't get it how is Syntronik 2 CS suppose to host v1 instruments (I own Deluxe) cause many here are reporting that they do sound different in both versions...?

I know why many user reporting that v1 instruments sound different in both version!

It's a huge bug with the filter section and/or filter envelope of Syntronik 2, with some V1 presets but also V2  presets on some of the 22 "classic synths" while everything is fine and the sound is different for the same presets played with Syntronic 1.

ex: Take the "Boomy square" preset of the SH-V:

-Try to modify the filter envelope, cut off, resonance...=> no effect, no filter 🤨 and the sound is so different from the same preset played with Syntronic 1 (it is more obvious in the low notes C0,C1...)

-Try all the possibilities (lpf,bpf...) of the 7 filters, slope/slope and modify the filter envelope, cut off, resonance => sometimes it's the cut off, sometimes the resonance, sometimes both that have no effect, sometimes you just can't choose the slope (the slider stays locked) while it's available in Syntronik 1

-Try to save a project with the "Boomy square" preset of the SH-V (without modifying it), close and reload your project, go to Syntronik 2, already there is an asterisk on the name of the preset, which means that it has been modified, go to the editing panel (the front of the synth) and there from bpf it has changed to lpf🤔

I have seen the same type of problem on SH-V, SAM, Noir, T-03...so far. It always has something to do with the filter section, the envelope I've only seen it once.

So, advice to those who had version 1 don't uninstall it!!! While waiting for it to correct

And those who have only version 2 of Syntronik test the filter and report to IK support because only for the SAM, the presets Syntronik 1> synth bass: Fat Resonant Bass, Feeder, Fingered Bass, Flanged Round Bass = BUG of the filter (I did not test the others)

Don't hesitate to make tons of noise when you contact the support 😜 THE FILTER SECTION IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!

I have tested many things:

-install shv-v1 and shv-v2 on the same directory and define only one path directory in Syntronik 2 => no change
-install only the synth sound and not the Syntronik 2 CS "Sound content" => no change
-re-download the sounds => no change
-i have tested with sampletank 4 => same bug

The bug occur with Syntronik 2 presets too
"Shinjuku Wobble Pad 3" from shv if you choose r-type filter you can't choose between 12 or 24 slopes because the slider stay locked on the 12 slope.

 

 

33 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Based on my experience we can still edit "Generation 1" presets (those from Syntronik and Syntronik Deluxe) using the virtual hardware style panel. To get there in Syntronik 2, I usually click the Effects button twice. I can also get there by clicking the Player button twice.  Clicking the Edit button tells me, "YOU CAN'T GET THERE FROM HERE!!!" (Not those exact words.)  But after that happened a few times, I got over it.  😉 

In Syntronik 2, if you are in the Preset Browser click once on the little image of the synth at the left of the preset name like in Syntronik 1!

1 hour ago, telecode 101 said:

I was also looking around between the two interfaces, on my screen, I dont really notice a loss of clarity of fonts. On my setup, I am using  a pretty old monitor and crappy 2GB video card.

And the GUI?

 

 

6 hours ago, telecode 101 said:

I am no expert and I only know what I like to use. So far, from listening to the demos, the Megawave sounds the most usable to me. I also like the Obie One. Not sure about the others yet. But I guess at the point, if you but one, you will get them all.

As an Arturia user as well, what I like about using SampleTank/Syntronic is that the interfaces are easy to use as they aren't exact emulations, and if you are familiar with T-Racks , its real easy to dial in the correct level of effects to try to get what you want.

You can listen the  first demo, Clav and big80s of the 99

99 is warm with beautiful sustain and  response to the velocity

You  can listen too the demos of the DCO-X

DCO-X is more crystalin, cold, soft and a little in back for the electric piano but with dominant pads

Quote

Any recommendations?

Go for the 11 new synths first.

I didn't find CATO so good that the other new synths, there is not enough presets i can use in my case!

 

2 hours ago, User 905133 said:

YUP!!!  

 

Have you seen the old edit panel of the classic synth?!

41 minutes ago, Frank said:

Is it only for me - the GUI's are so blurry and hard to read?

Compared to Syntronik-1 it's horrible.

I am on Windows 11.

Same for me on Windows 10, Reaper, FL studio.

I must squint a little😣