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Larry Shelby

IK Syntronik 2 Group Buy!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, telecode 101 said:

I that a good thing or bad thing? does it happen in Syntonic 1?

Yes there is already a resonnance on the 6 dB LP, BP and HP M-type filter in Syntronik 1(🤣...sorry, it's not for you i think at what Peter reply)

But if you try to modify the 6 dB resonance of the "Classic type" filter in Syntronik 1 nothing change, it's normal with LP and  BP, nothing change either in Syntronik 2 with Syntronik 1 or Syntronik 2 presets because it's disabled.

In Syntronik 2 you can clearly see what is disabled and what not for Syntronik 1 and 2 presets because the knob is greyed out and you can't move it in the synth panel and in the new Edit panel.

On the Syntronik 2 presets, the resonance of the 6dB LPF "C-type" filter still does not work with this update, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "C-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "O-type" filter still does not work, the resonance of the 6dB HPF "Classic" filter still does not work.

-There is not any 6dB slope for LPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2 for Syntronik 2 presets!

-There is not any HPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 6, 12 and 24 slopes!

-There is not any BPF "C-type" filter in syntronik 1 this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 12 and 24 slopes!

-There is not any 6dB HPF "O-type" filter slope for the syntronik 1 presets this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets) with 6, 12, 18 and 24 slopes!

-The 6dB HPF "classic" filter resonance is disabled for the syntronik 1 presets this is part of the new functionality of Syntronik 2(for Syntronik 2 presets)

 

There is more new filter features in Syntronik 2 like the "Peak" mode of the M-type filter and more

The good thing is that you have more possibility now but you are free to use it or not.

The bad thing is that if some Syntronik 2 presets have been programmed by designers with 6 dB resonnance that don't work it will not look like the designer intended.

 

I hope that the faulty 6 dB slope not become greyed out with the next update😜 because i hope to hear one day what designer have programmed with this new preset for example:

1117343270_6dbresonprovspreset.thumb.png.c615d3dbec5e9a75a93901dcef1b7992.png

Like you can see the designer have adjusted the resonance on 1.5 on the HP "O-Type" filter 6dB slope but we can't hear it because like i reported the resonance of the 6dB HP "O-type" filter still does not work with this update.

And there is two modulation(in the matrix) on the cut off which must be more interesting to listen to with the resonance

Edited by oqpoil

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23 hours ago, Peter - IK Multimedia said:

Not really, already answered on KVR, please check out the detailed reply to the core issues you mention.

Quote

Beyond Syntronik, a 6dB filter by design has no resonance peak. The Resonance knob will therefore have no effect on any of the modes of any of the filters with a 6dB slope in Syntronik or any other synth.

15 hours ago, oqpoil said:

Beautiful 6dB filter resonance in Syntronik 2 on the LP, BP and HP of the M-Type filter🥳

14 hours ago, telecode 101 said:

I that a good thing or bad thing? does it happen in Syntonic 1?

(1) Its a matter of individual taste and sonic goals. Personally, I like filter sweeps, including resonance sweeps (including a range from subtle to wild)  and sometimes static resonance settings.

(2) I just did a very simple test and found that Yes, the resonance knob had an effect on various filter modes in Syntronik (pre-2) with the 6dB filter.

  • Simple Test:
    • Open Syntronik > Minimod > A Deep Sweeper.
    • Select M-Type Filter and 6 dB Slope.
      • Try different Modes. 
      • WARNINGS:
        • Do not do this with headphones on.
        • When testing, start with the volume low.
    • Trigger some notes and play with Resonance and Cutoff.

==============

  • Just my opinion:
    • I applaud oqpoil's dedication to uncovering quirks and sharing his results with the community here.
    • I appreciate Peter's efforts to inform users of information he has, even when he is just passing on information others have given him.
    • I think the factory presets are well designed to ignore the quirks and to showcase a wide range of presets.
    • I think the quirks can be used extremely creatively. Pun ("extremely") definitely intended.   
    • Despite all the quirks, $49 is a very nice price for the functional equivalent of Syntronik 2 MAX.

 

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Did anyone else lose all they "Favorite" stars with the last update?  Mine all went away.  That was a lot of work too.

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I just picked my freebies. 
180 days to download. 

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Posted (edited)

Peter - IK Multimedia finally reply at KVR  only when the 2.0.4 update was available:
"My answer came right from Erik Norlander.  Sorry if that concerns you but he's most definitely an expert not only on Syntronik but synthesis and has probably forgotten more about it than most of us in this thread know.  He was kind enough to explain further for you so you can understand, @Opil:
With regard to my info about how any true 6dB / 1-pole filter is non-resonant by nature:

This remains true. Resonance is created by negative filter feedback, and it’s impossible to do that with a single pole (6dB filter).

Our M-Type filter does indeed have resonance, even when set to the 6dB slope. How is this possible, given the above? The M-Type filter is a special case, and it’s not really a true 6dB filter. Here’s why:

The M-Type filter is based on the famous Bob Moog Transistor Ladder Filter. It’s called a ladder filter because it uses a cascade of transistors to generate the filter, and each pole of the filter is one “rung” on the ladder. It is 4 poles — 4 rungs — in total, for a 24dB per octave filter.

To get the 6 / 12 / 18 / 24dB responses from this filter, we take taps at the output of each pole, each rung of the ladder. So for the 6dB slope, we take the output of the first rung.

However, the resonance of the filter — the negative feedback — comes from the very end of ladder. This means that no matter what slope you choose for the M-Type filter, the resonance will always be from the complete ladder and therefore 24dB per octave, aka 4-pole.

So our 1-pole / 6dB M-Type filter is really a one-pole / 6dB filter with 4-pole / 24dB of resonance. In that sense, it’s not a true 1-pole / 6dB filter. Well, it is until you turn up the resonance. Then it becomes the special case I described above.


I'm sure a true expert in the field enjoyed your proclamation of "WRONG" though :D"
 

I have reply to this https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581115&start=720

And my second answer and report bug on the last 2.0.4 update:
And what bothers me is not that someone is more knowledgeable than me about hardware synthesizers but that when i report the "O-type" filter bug to IK Multimedia support on May 11 and they reply on May 27 (after i a ask an update of my ticket) that they can't reproduce while in the same time following the report of this bug on the IK forum on May 11 at 7:41 a.m. "Steve-xyz", with the same explanations could reproduce this bug only 12 hours later as you can see here https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30034
In the same thread on May 16 "ttinker" "after looking at this a little" could reproduce this bug.

On may 28 at 6:16 am when i ask confirmation on kvr forum in this thread and the same day at 9:47 am "Teksonik" could reproduce this bug with the same explanations.

What it concern me is how simple customers can reproduce these bugs in 10 minutes with the same explanations when technical staff can't in a month and a half!
How the Syntronik bug fixing support could not find out that the resonance of a filter does not work in all modes, how the Syntronik bug fixing support could not find out that neither the cut off, nor the resonance nor the filter envelope works on a filter.

But may be you can ask Erik Norlander so that it illuminates the IK support and shows them the difference between a resonance filter that works and no resonance or between a filter envelope that works and an envelope that has no effect when you manipulate its parameters.

What also bothers me is that you come and tell customers on June 17 that they can load multis with confidence after update 203 when this is still not the case with the next update 204 when I clearly demonstrated on Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:23 am in this thread, with screenshots that after update 2.0.3 part of the multis bug was not fixed.

As you could see what I report AGAIN on June 19 is still not set  in this 2.0.4 update when you load the Syntronik 1 multis from the "beat", "groove" and "groove split" folders. Take the first Syntronik 1 multi available in the "Syntronik 1\Groove Split" folder take to Syntronik 2 group buy, "Full Construction Mode" and see the part B and 😄
syn1.thumb.png.fd1364fb6993ffe6118dfe6abf28fe25.png

syn2.thumb.png.90101b734ced607c8498067643359372.png
On Syntronik 1 part B have:
12 dB LPF R-type filter
934 cut off
filter velocity at 3.9
filter enveloppe attack of 370ms
filter enveloppe hold of 310ms
filter enveloppe decay of 884ms
filter enveloppe sustain at the middle
filter enveloppe amount at 2

On Syntronik 2 part B have:
24 dB LPF M-type filter NOT THE SAME filter
20Khz cut off NOT THE SAME
filter velocity at 0 NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe attack of 25ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe hold of 0ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe decay of 206ms NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe sustain at the minimum NOT THE SAME
filter enveloppe amount at 10 NOT THE SAME
i don't need to be an expert for say you that this part ne sonnera pas pareil!

On Syntronik 1 part C have:
Formant filter
961 morph
a good filter resonance at 21, some drive and velocity sensitivity
filter velocity at 3.9
A filter enveloppe with an attack of 394ms
filter enveloppe decay of 6 secondes
...
On Syntronik 2 part C have :
NO FILTER

I don't need to be an expert for say you that this part "ne sonnera pas pareil" in french!

I was forced to alert everyone on kvr and cakewalk by clearly demonstrating with videos and screenshots what was easy to hear and see in 10 minutes.

What also bothers me is that despite the difference in sound level visible on the screenshots I posted on June 19, you come the same day and give me a useless lecture on the functioning of the multis (which I already know) and you say that it is "normal"

And now after having demonstrated that you or the team that had answered that "there was no resonance on any filter and on any slope in Syntronik" did not know their own software since this functionality is available for the M-type filter since Syntronik 1 (some years now) you come back to give me another useless lecture by quoting a synthesis expert on the functioning of hardwares filters while I never spoke about hardware filters. Too nice! Thank you!

Two day after, on June 21 the IK support told me that they have tested and confirmed the bugs. 🐶

About this last update

1- Here you can see a difference on the attack of the sound with a filter LPF "O-type" beetween the same preset loaded in Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 2

1201290380_lpfotype.thumb.png.6e22211fe8eec744bcbcdc3b33078276.pnge

Yeah, IT'S A BUG......... but in Syntronik 1  😜 i like to play  🥳
I'm sure there is some who sweated a bit when they saw the screenshot with the red arrows  🤣🤣

More seriously

Concerning this last update:
2-Some bugs still there:

2096125162_204thinflanging.thumb.png.d1557301810519562242487e21f248c7.png
You can already see that the sound levels difference are still here like on the without filter or without OSC 2

It seem that the without FX seems to be fixed but not, if you zoom on:

bump.thumb.png.41066d919c1a0b6211c01966725fecd3.png
You can see a bump when the key is released => no bump on syntronik 1

And this bump don't occur with the 2.0.2 and 2.0.3 versions like you can see on my old 2.0.3 render with the same preset with the same parameters

971384943_203thinflanging.thumb.png.810871b0396d87e7e1d3fcbfab642830.png


3-It's a NEW BUG, it's not a joke this time 😁
nobump.thumb.png.f7db8576836e285be895027468ed1d72.png
Here you can see that there is no bump and the sound level is the same when the OSC 2 and FX are disabled. And like you understand if there is bump with OSC 2 + without FX and no bump when OSC2 and FX are disabled it's because OSC 2 is faulty!

But like you can see on the last audio item of the first screenshot when only OSC2 is disabled there is a sound level difference yet.No need to zoom!

Conclusion:
-the OSC2 is faulty, it's a new bug and FX is faulty too, this bug have not been fixed.

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 1 presets with FX and OSC2 actived

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 1 multis like the "Cold Lead" multi that i have render again with the last 2.0.4 update

750768638_coldleadmulti204.thumb.png.39492b43d6dc49f6b0da7342b96aa060.png
It's not obvious but you can see a sound level difference

-these bugs (can) occur on all Syntronik 2 multis with Syntronik 1 "parts/presets"

:D Peter do you think that IK Multimedia need an expert for do what i do, render one or two preset and multi with or without FX, filters ... CHECK!!!

EDIT:  The Syntronik 1 presets O-type filter bug have been finally fixed😩

Now you have the filter resonance working and the filter enveloppe working for the all "O-type" filter when you load Syntronik 1 preset in Syntronik 2.

Edited by oqpoil

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