75 workflow improvements to make Cakewalk more intuitive (+ appearance, implementation, etc.)

[Peter Hintze]

5 minutes ago, Olaf said:

Thanks, I was hoping so, but I've given up. Cakewalk can't even come to terms with the notion that CW crashing 10 times a day in relation to all kinds of plugins is not the plugins' fault, but plain CW's. They're still waiting for all plugins to become perfect. I would have added a lot more to this list, but it doesn't seem to be of any avail.

I've started recording and editing audio, it's a nightmare. There's about 4-5 things that don't make sense only in relation to how comping/recording lanes work - wave clips being split automatically and uselessly needing to be re-merged, useless zooming in and out because of that, and selecting the small split slices doesn't have the resolution, then information being lost on that repeated useless re-merge, because reuniting a split clip is not rejoining, but bouncing, which is destructive - so on, so forth. Automatically superposing different takes in the overall track clip, it's just plain stupid. I don't know who thought all that out, but it's clearly not thought through at all. To be honest, I'm waiting for Luna to come out on Windows, and trying to make do until then.

yeah, for some comping tasks its better to turn off the smart tool function 

 

what's luna? 

[Olaf]

46 minutes ago, Peter Hintze said:

yeah, for some comping tasks its better to turn off the smart tool function 

 

what's luna? 

it's something that looks analog, it's got the consoles - for now neve and api, but uad already have ssl emulations, too, and among the better ones, so that's probably gonna be in there, too - it's got the tape, and i've heard it sounds very well. it's free with uad apollo interfaces - and some others - and i believe it's paid if you don't own one. but it's only for mac, for now. well worth a look into the workflow, i believe.

https://www.uaudio.com/luna.html

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:32 PM, Olaf said:

it's something that looks analog, it's got the consoles - for now neve and api, but uad already have ssl emulations, too, and among the better ones, so that's probably gonna be in there, too - it's got the tape, and i've heard it sounds very well. it's free with uad apollo interfaces - and some others - and i believe it's paid if you don't own one. but it's only for mac, for now. well worth a look into the workflow, i believe.

https://www.uaudio.com/luna.html

I wouldn't put money on Luna in the near or far future. It wasn't made with intent of being a new competitor in the market, but rather a very basic tool made for UAD owners by UAD owners and hopefully will drag new users into their ecosystem.

[Olaf]

11 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

I wouldn't put money on Luna in the near or far future. It wasn't made with intent of being a new competitor in the market, but rather a very basic tool made for UAD owners by UAD owners and hopefully will drag new users into their ecosystem.

Yeah, it's based on UAD software, but from what I know it allows third party AUs, too. I have no doubt a Win version would bring in VSTs, as well.

It doesn't look very basic, I've read the description. Jaquire King said he switched to Luna, from Pro Tools, and he was happy about the choice. He said there was still stuff to be implemented, but that's still the case with Pro Tools, to this day. On the other hand, Luna is just starting, not decades old, so for an infancy period that's understandable. But they look like they're moving fast. My personal impression is they aim to become a standard, just like Sequoia does - although on a different market - or like Cubase did.

I like how it looks, I like the directly workable mixer interface, I like the diversity of the included options and the analog emulation direction. And UAD have a reputation for good sound, so that part looks good, too. The next thing is for it to be reliable and intuitive, workflow wise.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Olaf
there's always something more to say. you just got to stop somewhere, though.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

17 hours ago, Olaf said:

Yeah, it's based on UAD software, but from what I know it allows third party AUs, too. I have no doubt a Win version would bring in VSTs, as well.

It doesn't look very basic, I've read the description. Jaquire King said he switched to Luna, from Pro Tools, and he was happy about the choice. He said there was still stuff to be implemented, but that's still the case with Pro Tools, to this day. On the other hand, Luna is just starting, not decades old, so for an infancy period that's understandable. But they look like they're moving fast. My personal impression is they aim to become a standard, just like Sequoia does - although on a different market - or like Cubase did.

I like how it looks, I like the directly workable mixer interface, I like the diversity of the included options and the analog emulation direction. And UAD have a reputation for good sound, so that part looks good, too. The next thing is for it to be reliable and intuitive, workflow wise.

Without trying it myself, it's hard to say. Since I don't own any UAD device, it's not going to happen. That's a very expensive dongle.

[Olaf]

16 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Without trying it myself, it's hard to say. Since I don't own any UAD device, it's not going to happen. That's a very expensive dongle.

I wouldn't mind selling my current interface and buying a UAD, if the program was good, since I'm in the market for a new interface anyway. For now there isn't a WIndows version. The problem is that, while the DAW is free, the console emulations/summers that are among its main strengths cost $300 each, and the second tape is paid, too. It's gonna be worth waiting for a sale, or something similar, and it's probably not gonna happen very soon, but I think it's an option to keep an eye out for.

EDIT: it already seems to be doing many of the things that I've suggested for Cakewalk, in terms on console workflow - mass same type plugin on/offs, collapseable console modules for an adjacent button, instead of a million labyrinth menus, mouse options for some shortcuts, etc.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Olaf
who knows?

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

5 hours ago, Olaf said:

I wouldn't mind selling my current interface and buying a UAD, if the program was good, since I'm in the market for a new interface anyway. For now there isn't a WIndows version. The problem is that, while the DAW is free, the console emulations/summers that are among its main strengths cost $300 each, and the second tape is paid, too. It's gonna be worth waiting for a sale, or something similar, and it's probably not gonna happen very soon, but I think it's an option to keep an eye out for.

EDIT: it already seems to be doing many of the things that I've suggested for Cakewalk, in terms on console workflow - mass same type plugin on/offs, collapseable console modules for an adjacent button, instead of a million labyrinth menus, mouse options for some shortcuts, etc.

 

I don't see much that can't be done using CbB in that video.

[Olaf]

7 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

I don't see much that can't be done using CbB in that video.

Essentially it's still a DAW, but these things I was noting you can't do in CW. I haven't even looked at recording and editing. And the biggest sticking points are crashing, and retaining settings. Not to mention that since one of the latest releases, I, for one, have the same almost half a second latency regardless of the buffer setting. You click on a plugin, it disappears, but only on playback. You deactivate a plugin, it starts crackling like crazy, even though the load should be lighter. Plugins stop working. It's random, crazy stuff like this, all the time. I'd have been a big fan otherwise, but this is too much, and I don't see it getting better.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Olaf

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

15 minutes ago, Olaf said:

Essentially it's still a DAW, but these things I was noting you can't do in CW. I haven't even looked at recording and editing. And the biggest sticking points are crashing, and retaining settings. Not to mention that since one of the latest releases, I, for one, have the same almost half a second latency regardless of the buffer setting. You click on a plugin, it disappears, but only on playback. You deactivate a plugin, it starts crackling like crazy, even though the load should be lighter. Plugins stop working. It's random, crazy stuff like this, all the time. I'd have been a big fan otherwise, but this is too much, and I don't see it getting better.

Preferences set to advanced then go into configuration and change the following settings:

- UseHardwareSamplePosition set to false

- ThreadSchedulingModel set to either 2 or 3

- Disable auto-saving

 

[murat k.]

Hi@Olaf, 

Maybe @Bruno de Souza Lino's advices will work for you.  But I never needed a change in the Configuration settings and encountered with almost no crashes related to the Cakewalk either. I think it's all about the sound driver you use. I'll advise you to use FL Studio ASIO Driver with the Cakewalk.  Fast, easy, you can also work with it while other sound players are active.

[Olaf]

 

37 minutes ago, murat k. said:

Hi@Olaf, 

Maybe @Bruno de Souza Lino's advices will work for you.  But I never needed a change in the Configuration settings and encountered with almost no crashes related to the Cakewalk either. I think it's all about the sound driver you use. I'll advise you to use FL Studio ASIO Driver with the Cakewalk.  Fast, easy, you can also work with it while other sound players are active.

 i haven't changed the driver, it just started doing that after an update. the only other alteration might have been a windows update, but frankly, it's of no consequence. no other program i've tried has any of these behaviors, while cw has them even with no changes to excuse them. and it's all kinds of problems, there's no point in chasing each one separately, while they keep piling up. sometimes it starts, sometimes it freezes. etc. any cw update almost always causes problems with the plugins and the registry, with no other change. i figure there's a reason it almost went bankrupt, and large part of it is pretending there's no problem.

talk won't solve any of this. the only thing that solves it is seeing it work.

47 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Preferences set to advanced then go into configuration and change the following settings:

- UseHardwareSamplePosition set to false

- ThreadSchedulingModel set to either 2 or 3

- Disable auto-saving

these are the settings that i have, except for the sample position.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Olaf

[murat k.]

44 minutes ago, Olaf said:

i haven't changed the driver

Change the driver to the FLStudio ASIO. Then try again with the project you are having the trouble. If it doesn't work, we can try something else. I think your problem is specific, I mean not everyone else is having this problem.

47 minutes ago, Olaf said:

talk won't solve any of this.

I believe talk solves every problem. Problems can be determinated by investigation. Now we are making that investigation by talking. When we find the reason of it, it can be solved.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

Cakewalk is very stable on my machine with these setting changes. I rarely have crashes. They only happen when a plugin does something that causes it and even that could be solved by having plugin sandboxing.

[murat k.]

Sound cracklings that you experienced @Olaf, are related to the sound driver. But like @Bruno de Souza Lino said, if you are having crashes frequently, it's mostly related to a plugin you use. It needs to be finding out which plugin causes the problem using plugin sandboxing or if you don't have it, you can find out the problematic synth by removing out them one by one in the project file if you can.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

If I'm not mistaken CbB should have a safe mode.

[murat k.]

I get it @Bruno de Souza Lino When you were talking about plugin sanboxing, you were talking about opening Cakewalk with safe mode. It can help to find out the bad plugin either.

[murat k.]

And @Olaf, after being sure about the sound driver and the plugins, I mean if the problem is really about the Cakewalk update and nothing else, you can export then delete Cakewalk Music Software's Windows Registry keys both User and Local locations under the SOFTWARE key. After doing that you will able to make a clean install. When you download the Cakewalk with Bandlab Assistant, it will download you all of the stuff like you never installed the Cakewalk before.

After the clean installation, if you are still having the same problems, look at the night sky,  take a sip of your coffee and wait for the Luna.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

7 hours ago, murat k. said:

I get it @Bruno de Souza Lino When you were talking about plugin sanboxing, you were talking about opening Cakewalk with safe mode. It can help to find out the bad plugin either.

Safe mode is an immediate solution. Ideally, CbB should have plugin sandboxing implemented, as it doesn't currently. This is one of the few features that set Waveform and Bitwig apart from other DAWs. In case a plugin fails, only the plugin fails.

[murat k.]

Oh. Now I really get it.  I thought you were talking about Safe modes loading plugin one by one thing to find out the problem. Waveform and Bitwig? I heard them now. If they are aparting themselves from other DAWs with a feature, good for them.
Safe Mode works pretty well actually. Plugin problems are not an everyday problem. Once you load it, it works mostly.
I had trouble with a couple of old plugins in the past. And I downgraded or upgraded them to find which works well. Nowadays every new plugin seems working without problem.
I was thinking Cakewalk has not a big crashing problem but today I looked at the Release Notes page and saw that they fixed so many crashes in the last release. Maybe @Olafis one of them who is having these kind of crashes and he seems so pissed off to the Cakewalk.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

19 hours ago, murat k. said:

Oh. Now I really get it.  I thought you were talking about Safe modes loading plugin one by one thing to find out the problem. Waveform and Bitwig? I heard them now. If they are aparting themselves from other DAWs with a feature, good for them.
Safe Mode works pretty well actually. Plugin problems are not an everyday problem. Once you load it, it works mostly.
I had trouble with a couple of old plugins in the past. And I downgraded or upgraded them to find which works well. Nowadays every new plugin seems working without problem.
I was thinking Cakewalk has not a big crashing problem but today I looked at the Release Notes page and saw that they fixed so many crashes in the last release. Maybe @Olafis one of them who is having these kind of crashes and he seems so pissed off to the Cakewalk.

Plugin sandboxing is becoming more commonplace. It makes no sense for a single plugin to have the ability to take your entire DAW with it when it crashes.