Velocity Issues

[Nobletonmusic]

New to the forum and already have needed help on two issues. I have been using Cakewalk since the late 90s. Had Sonar Pro before the purchase of CW by Band Lab. Have a Yamaha P-35, great keyboard for playing, but not designed to for Midi. No matter how hard I played it was couldn't get over 70 on the velocity scale ( 0-127). Talked with Yamaha, read online, this was an issue for others. So I would play, select the entire track /clip, then increase velocity in the Piano Roll. No mod  or pitch bend wheel on P-35.

I wanted to use more virtual instruments, time to get a midi controllers. Didn't need a lot of bells & whistles, so I picked up a Novation Launch Key 61 today. Set it up. I couldn't believe it, same problem. Even played with different velocity windows - Lo / high. I even turned it off, so every note would be loud regardless of touch. Everything went through at 127. At the regular settings, low 70s was top velocity I was getting.

I have no idea if I have a setting somewhere in velocity scale or some where else. Is it the freaking computer, a dell with an i5 processor, 12 GB of Ram, which seems unlikely, but who the hell knows. I have to believe it's something in Cakewalk, in my settings

It's driving me crazy. After all these years I'd hate to leave CW, love the look of the tracks & everything. But if I can't fix this, it may be time for Ableton, or Cubase. 

Any help on this would be a godsend.

jt

 

 

 

[User 905133]

There might be a number of solutions. The MIDI FX Velocity Compander might work for your needs. Could be worth a try. (I know I tested one of Variorum's recent plug-ins for real time control. Not sure if this one works  the same way.)

Edited December 21, 2019 by User 905133

[scook]

Could try the Velocity MFX using scale set to 182%.

 

[Nobletonmusic]

Appreciate the quick response from both of you. I believe that plug-in is in the Process tab / Apply effect/ Midi Effects area. For some reason they are all grayed out now, since connecting to the Novation Launch Key 61. Guess I'll have to make sure I have the settings right for that. I went to Control Surface,  selected ACT Midi Controller -1. The Input port is the Launchkey Midi, the Output port is Launchkey Midi. That looks right. The ACT & WAI boxes are checked. I switched to Cakewalk Generic Surface, same situation - All the options in Process tab are grayed out.

Making my way through Novation LaunchKey manual, probably don't have that set up right yet.

[scook]

Instead of using the destructive Process menu, try putting the plug-in in the MIDI FX Rack.

 

[User 905133]

I use the Browser.  If you choose a MIDI Track, "Process tab / Apply effect/ Midi Effects" will not be greyed out. Personal preference--I like seeing the list and dragging from the Browser.

Addendum: Since I don't use the Process tab method, I didn't know that was destructive. Thanks scook.

Edited December 21, 2019 by User 905133
To strikeout an incorrect statement

[Nobletonmusic]

I did have the MIDI track selected, but everything under Apply Effects was grayed out.

[User 905133]

4 minutes ago, Nobletonmusic said:

I did have the MIDI track selected, but everything under Apply Effects was grayed out.

I stand corrected.  I had already dragged the Velocity FX to the midi track's FX Bin. Evidently, that's why it wasn't greyed out.

[scook]

22 minutes ago, Nobletonmusic said:

Process tab / Apply effect/ Midi Effects

Is only going to be enabled if MIDI Effects are on the track. This step destructively applies the effects. It is not necessary. Place the MFX in the MIDI FX Rack and it will be non-destructively applied to the track.

[Nobletonmusic]

This is great feedback. I found the MIDI effect velocity in the Browser. I dragged it into the FX box on the channel strip. I didn't adjust anything the first row was Set To , it was at 100. The volume recording and on playback was where it should be. When I checked on Events View the readings were still very low 20 -40. So great it's louder, but there's no dynamics, I push a key easy or hard and same level of volume. This is insane, 

[scook]

The Event View will not change because the effect is being applied non-destructively. IOW, the data in the clip is not changed, The values are changing as they are streamed to the synth.

By default the plug-in has the Set To button selected and its velocity slider set to 100. So all the values are set to 100 during playback.

To scale the data, click the Scale radio button and change the scale to 182 (about 128/70) to scale the data over 0 to 127.

Click the F1 key with the plug-in UI in focus to bring up its detailed help.

 

 

[Nobletonmusic]

scook.

I set the scale to 182 and touched nothing else. The volume was up and the dynamics were back. When you say the MIDI FX Rack, I'm not sure where you are referring to. I clicked on it in the browser and brought it over into the track lane. Put it in the FX slot. Is that where you are referring to.. Does that mean I need to place this MFX in every midi channel.  I worry about the articulation on something like Session Guitarist Acoustic Picked, id the velocities are going in at 64 and under

[Variorum]

The only thing I know of that would affect Midi Velocity in CbB (other than MidiFX) is the Velocity scale (Vel+ in the picture) or the Gain knob in the inspector. Both do exactly the same thing, scale input Midi Velocity up or down.

I can't imagine Vel+ or Gain are set low on all of your Midi tracks, so that's likely not the cause of your problem, but it's a quick way to adjust the Velocity sensitivity.

[scook]

Here is the documentation on applying real-time effects. The images show audio tracks and buses but the FX Racks are in the same place for MIDI tracks. You can also add FXs to the Rack by clicking the + at the top of the rack or right-clicking in the rack.

There is no global MIDI velocity curve adjustment so the plug-in will need to be added on a per-track basis. To globally affect MIDI velocity would have to happen before the data hits the DAW. I am sure there are tools to do this but I have not needed one.

[Nobletonmusic]

Variorum,

Yes, I noticed the Volume on the MIDI track was at 101. I increased to 127. I also turned up the gain to 50. It recorded and played back at the expected volume. The velocities in the Event View were still only 64 at the highest.

[Nobletonmusic]

scook

I will check it out. Maybe have to set it on each midi track.  But do you agree this is unusual. Most ppl who use a MIDI Controller like this Novation LaunchKey 61, don't have to place a velocity effect on their MIDI tracks?  

[scook]

CbB records audio and MIDI as it is sent to the DAW. You can inspect the MIDI data stream being sent to the DAW using something like MIDI OX.

 

[Nobletonmusic]

I looked at that page and we are talking about the same thing, what you are calling the FX Rack, is what I naively call the FX box to the right on the track. I see it  also appears near the top of the Inspector Strip. I route audio tracks to Buses, for things like Reverb, delay, compression, I don't load them in FX Racks on the track. So I should play around with creating a Bus for this velocity MIDI effect. I could route MIDI tracks to that Bus, see how that works.

But to my earlier question, this isn't normal getting low velocities from a midi controller and having to use something like this MFX?

By the way, thank you so much for your patience & your help. Same to all the others who posted helpful suggestions.

[scook]

1 minute ago, Nobletonmusic said:

But to my earlier question, this isn't normal getting low velocities from a midi controller and having to use something like this MFX?

It is not normal and why I suggest checking the data stream in the PC before it hits CbB with something like MIDI OX.

I did not read the OP fully before my initial reply. The suggestion to use the Velocity MFX was in response to the post made by @User 905133 not the OP.

[Nobletonmusic]

Wow, that's an area I didn't even think of, that the problem may be with my DELL computer and the data stream. I will definitely look at MIDI OX. That could also be the reason my Yamaha P-35 which is not a midi controller, but sends MIDI data and my old Ensoniq  SQ , which is an old midi controller with Mod & pitch wheels, also sent low velocities. If it's the PC & can't be fixed, time to get a new one. LO